All I know about Lutheranism is what I've learned from Garrison Keillor
(listening to him right now)
Hey Joel
-
Lightning Rod
- Posts: 5211
- Joined: August 15th, 2004, 6:57 pm
- Location: between my ears
- Contact:
-
Totenkopf
Keillor another good case for contra-Lutheranism (and contra-Xtianity). He's like the Saturday evening Post, but more boring, though his politics are OK, sometimes.
However talented or intellectual some Lutherans were (Bach and Kant, etc.), arguments---sound arguments--- could be made that Luther and Lutheranism in some sense led to German nationalism, and to the nazis. And if one recalls that Hegelian dialectic --Hegel was a devoted Lutheran at the end of his life, and rightist-militarist--- not only influenced German rightists, but Marx and the left , one could argue Luther, via Hegel ushered in Stalinism as well. Lutheran-Hegelian Apocalypse, dankeschoen.....Bertrand Russell sort of thought along those lines (though Comrade e-d probably not too fond of that speculation).
However talented or intellectual some Lutherans were (Bach and Kant, etc.), arguments---sound arguments--- could be made that Luther and Lutheranism in some sense led to German nationalism, and to the nazis. And if one recalls that Hegelian dialectic --Hegel was a devoted Lutheran at the end of his life, and rightist-militarist--- not only influenced German rightists, but Marx and the left , one could argue Luther, via Hegel ushered in Stalinism as well. Lutheran-Hegelian Apocalypse, dankeschoen.....Bertrand Russell sort of thought along those lines (though Comrade e-d probably not too fond of that speculation).
When I used to visit the old Franconians in northern Bavaria, they'd all have shrines to the Nazi Brother-Husband-Fathers on the walls. Black-and-white Aryan snapshots draped with black-and-white-and-red iron crosses. And they all knew who was running Dachau. And they all knew that the rallies used to be held in the gothic chapels where I or my colleagues now preached. All those Lutheran Nazis who saw their anti-semitism(, anti-gypsyism, anti-Jehovah's-Witnessesism, homophobia, marxophobia, slavophobia and disdain for those not physically superior) as the child of Uncle Marty's piety.
And they all read Bonhoeffer and Niemoeller with great devotion, celebrated the Confessing Church and the Barmen Declaration, admired the peace-cries of Albert Schweitzer and Corrie Ten Boom...and considered it all the child of Uncle Marty's piety.
They lived with opposing thoughts that claimed a single heritage and, unsurprisingly, they watched those children fight each other. Esau and Jacob, Ismail and Isaac, Cain and Abel.
And they all read Bonhoeffer and Niemoeller with great devotion, celebrated the Confessing Church and the Barmen Declaration, admired the peace-cries of Albert Schweitzer and Corrie Ten Boom...and considered it all the child of Uncle Marty's piety.
They lived with opposing thoughts that claimed a single heritage and, unsurprisingly, they watched those children fight each other. Esau and Jacob, Ismail and Isaac, Cain and Abel.
"Every genuinely religious person is a heretic, and therefore a revolutionary" -- GBShaw
-
stilltrucking
- Posts: 20649
- Joined: October 24th, 2004, 12:29 pm
- Location: Oz or somepLace like Kansas
that was an amazing bit of writing joel
enjoyed reading it.
edited and post posted
Everything coming up dej a vu all over the world. As If I could see into the future will have been. Who the hell do I think I am
Nitzke writing his history of the future
here on the online asylum of the termianlly vain aka studio eight.
oh well sorry if I am off topic
just farting around.
listening to too many preachers on GodTV Inc LLC
apophony
enjoyed reading it.
edited and post posted
I get so doggone "unsuprised" these days I think I am in a time warp.They lived with opposing thoughts that claimed a single heritage and, unsurprisingly, they watched those children fight each other.
Everything coming up dej a vu all over the world. As If I could see into the future will have been. Who the hell do I think I am
Nitzke writing his history of the future
here on the online asylum of the termianlly vain aka studio eight.
oh well sorry if I am off topic
just farting around.
listening to too many preachers on GodTV Inc LLC
apophony
Last edited by stilltrucking on September 23rd, 2007, 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
stilltrucking
- Posts: 20649
- Joined: October 24th, 2004, 12:29 pm
- Location: Oz or somepLace like Kansas
-
Totenkopf
Meine übersetzung:"Aus einem verzagten Arsch kommt kein fröhlicher Furz!"
"Out of a gloomy ass comes no joyous fart" (close to the first one, then)
Sergeant Schultz-style poetix...............Oom Pah Pah......Oom Pah pah.......
("verzagten"--adj.-- seems to be older form of "verzagen": despairing, despondent, sad, or gloomy, in other worts).
Interesting, how individuals have complex approaches to reality and find their way through distortions searching for clarity., sometimes getting lost along the way.
I have a friend who is an ordained Baptist chaplain, a most open minded and expansive individual, southern white. I interact with him in the Catholic hospital in Tampa in supporting patients who are cpoing in a palliative sense and also those who are fighting for more curative results.
I also had the opportunity to counsel with a Lutheran chaplain in the Air Farce, the year of my rebellion, as part of the conscientious objector discharge process. He told me that his unit's job in Southeast Asia was "saving lives." Of course, they were the ones who rescued downed pilots. Never mind that those pilots were strafing villages in Laos.
He said that I had battle fatigue, diid not respect my ppoint of view that the air war on Southeast Asia was not valid and was causing more suffering than helping. and that I was not going back, and that the unit we were both assignes to stateside was deploying back there to bomb and bomb and bomb. But we had the cold war to think about, and nuclear bombers to support..
It all depends on how you frame your point of reference.
I prefer to take off the blinders and wear shades.
Does not mean that you can not find relevance and purpose within Lutheranism
or be aware of the cultural bias that distorts meaningful spiritual effort.
Totally fascinating. I gotta reread that sermon on the fig tree.
Happily farting onward.
by th way, just read a column recently by Garrison Kiellor, in which he talked about being cheerful as an attidude regardless of one's emotional/physical/existential financial intellectual etc status..
Awesome. Liike I said, an epiph.
I have a friend who is an ordained Baptist chaplain, a most open minded and expansive individual, southern white. I interact with him in the Catholic hospital in Tampa in supporting patients who are cpoing in a palliative sense and also those who are fighting for more curative results.
I also had the opportunity to counsel with a Lutheran chaplain in the Air Farce, the year of my rebellion, as part of the conscientious objector discharge process. He told me that his unit's job in Southeast Asia was "saving lives." Of course, they were the ones who rescued downed pilots. Never mind that those pilots were strafing villages in Laos.
He said that I had battle fatigue, diid not respect my ppoint of view that the air war on Southeast Asia was not valid and was causing more suffering than helping. and that I was not going back, and that the unit we were both assignes to stateside was deploying back there to bomb and bomb and bomb. But we had the cold war to think about, and nuclear bombers to support..
It all depends on how you frame your point of reference.
I prefer to take off the blinders and wear shades.
Does not mean that you can not find relevance and purpose within Lutheranism
or be aware of the cultural bias that distorts meaningful spiritual effort.
Totally fascinating. I gotta reread that sermon on the fig tree.
Happily farting onward.
by th way, just read a column recently by Garrison Kiellor, in which he talked about being cheerful as an attidude regardless of one's emotional/physical/existential financial intellectual etc status..
Awesome. Liike I said, an epiph.
[color=darkcyan]i'm on a survival mission
yo ho ho an a bottle of rum om[/color]
yo ho ho an a bottle of rum om[/color]
That made me laugh out loud!"Keillor another good case for contra-Lutheranism (and contra-Xtianity). He's like the Saturday evening Post, but more boring,"
re: Toten's argument to the effect that WWII is footnotes to Luther
Guess i don't know the Lutheran aspect of Hegel. How's that supposed to be?
my translation (sanitized of the scent of farts):
Depression makes bad art.
Not true!
Suppose we could callit, the
Lex Luther. as itwere.
I don't think 'Therefore, I am.' Therefore, I am.
-
Totenkopf
Luther rejects Aristotelian logic, and thus the law of contradiction, and most of the catholic theology (and in a sense greek rationalism): there is some mystical dualism instead, where Christ is both sinful Man and god. That is one reason the catholics hated him (and torched some of his translations of Screeepture), and still do. Some argue that Luther's irrationalism influenced Hegelian dialectic (and thus marxism), which is also contra-Aristotelian logic (instead of objecting to contradiction as falsity, the protestants--and Hegelians-- in some sense embrace it).
That's not "necessary" in a sense (for one, methinks Hegel did respect the greeks to some extent), but some scholars argue in that fashion--I wager Frege thought something like that. I'm not suggesting catholics are superior; merely that protestantism begins with a certain anti-rationalist position (Nietzsche also in that tradition to some degree, but he simply rejects the theological BS associated with it---such as the dualism, either protestant/Hegelian or platonic-catholic--).
I read Luther's little anti-despair fart-rant, as sort of that "keep a smile on, firm-handshake, Win-Win" situation sort of protestant-salesman BS: Reagan- like nearly. Whatevs. I wager Luther was probably some big beer-swilling, pork-eating, saxon thug: remember his "sin strongly, but keep your faith" BS. In other words, keep your eye on the sparrow, und Gott im Himmel, as your Panzer division enters Poland.
That's not "necessary" in a sense (for one, methinks Hegel did respect the greeks to some extent), but some scholars argue in that fashion--I wager Frege thought something like that. I'm not suggesting catholics are superior; merely that protestantism begins with a certain anti-rationalist position (Nietzsche also in that tradition to some degree, but he simply rejects the theological BS associated with it---such as the dualism, either protestant/Hegelian or platonic-catholic--).
I read Luther's little anti-despair fart-rant, as sort of that "keep a smile on, firm-handshake, Win-Win" situation sort of protestant-salesman BS: Reagan- like nearly. Whatevs. I wager Luther was probably some big beer-swilling, pork-eating, saxon thug: remember his "sin strongly, but keep your faith" BS. In other words, keep your eye on the sparrow, und Gott im Himmel, as your Panzer division enters Poland.
Rosario´s Lutheran Church. It´s two blocks from my home. Usually you don´t see anybody there. With luck, a gardener. I use to go there twice in the year: in november for the Black Forest Fest with the purpose of drinking beer, eat chucrut, german salchichas and chocolate cake and also around december for the beautiful concerts of The Pro-Musica Antiqua that are usually held inside the church.
Interesting thread!!! no idea about Lutero, I guess I´ve been busy enough living in a catholic country
La iglesia luterana de su barrio es mas bella que los estadounidenses...y ahora estoy pensando...cuando no recibia un llamado por la congregacion en nueva inglaterra (lo que quiero recibir), que es mi posibilidad a servir con la iglesia luterana evangelica en Argentina? Puedo hablar aleman...puedo comer tortas de la "Bosque Negra"...me gusta a bebir cervesa....
Ya empieza Oktoberfest en mi hogar pasado de Muenchen...recuerdo al sabor de cervesa bien saborosa....
(Una bendiga de cervesa: con mas cervesa se manifiesta mi abilidad a hablar siempre mejor.)
Ya empieza Oktoberfest en mi hogar pasado de Muenchen...recuerdo al sabor de cervesa bien saborosa....
(Una bendiga de cervesa: con mas cervesa se manifiesta mi abilidad a hablar siempre mejor.)
"Every genuinely religious person is a heretic, and therefore a revolutionary" -- GBShaw
you´ll really get bored here (except you like to preach to jazmins and sparrows a lo San Francisco!!) 
and no statues inside...!!!!we have another Lutheran minister in these parts, Bruce Wright. He is a stout fellow who has ministered to the homeless for many years. It's one of the reasons that I tithe to the homeless. He heads the Mid-County Coalition for the Homeless, preached at a street center in St Pete, The refuge, untill the fine and upstanding citizens of upscaling downtown st Pete had The Refuge banned. Now he holds forth in Pinellas Park, otherwise known as "Penniless Park", a melting place for white trash and other Eurotrash types.
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=revere ... s&ei=UTF-8
I gotta keep a smile on
win-win
easy to be sad
one could also affirm that the entire history of the modern world outside of asia is a footnote to abraham and his missus
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=revere ... s&ei=UTF-8
I gotta keep a smile on
win-win
easy to be sad
one could also affirm that the entire history of the modern world outside of asia is a footnote to abraham and his missus
[color=darkcyan]i'm on a survival mission
yo ho ho an a bottle of rum om[/color]
yo ho ho an a bottle of rum om[/color]
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest