Holy Crap, (Hunter Thompson)

[lescaret]

Doreen, I respect you opinion and your beliefs regarding suicide.

I say bravo FIRST to Life - what a grand gift it is! Unknowable, indecipherable, unanswerable. No religio-dogma, scripture, or "this is THE Answer" text is yet to explain it to me satisfactorily, but I do know it ranges from the Apex to the nadir and I wouldn't give it up (as of now) for the world.

I say bravo SECONDLY to suicide. My body, my life, my choice. Yes, indeed, friends, family, pets, inanimate object collections (something to consider if you're an animist), all bear the brunt of your decision. Sad but true.

But to paraphrase the inestimable Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, "Life is messy". Indeed it is.

I'd prefer to die, ala the great George Plimpton, quietly in my sleep. Sometimes it doesn't work that way.

To live is to gamble. It's everyone's gamble. To love is to gamble. There ain't no sure thing.

In the last whispered moment before we plunge into (what? - the pit of darkness? the churning karma wheel? the big sensory deprivation tank of eternity?) we are alone. The Next Step is a challenge faced solo. Given that, as I see it, I've the absolute right to decide when to take that step.

I love, but those I love I leave, and those that love me, must lose me. Eventually. One way or the other.

Respect for living, respect for dying.

Spalding Gray, your icy water float your own breast stroke.

Ray Johnson, all your bunnies drawn, your final Art Project, an enigmatic twist 'neath the Sag Harbor Bridge Friday the 13th 1995, mail art your delicate eccentricity to generations of post office boxes forever.

HUZZA!

[stilltrucking]

red blood on white panties
women poets excell at blood sports
Sylvia Plath's fatal PMS

[Doreen Peri]

We will have to agree to disagree, lescaret.

I don't think people have the right to decide when it's their time to leave this planet (unless they board a rocketship.);)

Your loved ones know you will leave them some day, yes. And you know they will leave you some day.

But because you love them, I don't believe you have the right to blow your brains out on their carpet, leaving them with the horror of cleaning up after you. To do so is selfish and unloving.

Love is the reason we are here. Yes, life is messy. But people do not have the right to make a mess like that which isn't just a messy carpet full of brains and blood but the messy emotional trauma which can result in the minds and lives of your loved ones.

I applaud LIFE, also!

Death is inevitable. There is no sane reason to rush it and to make a dramatic exit which can traumatize those who know you for the balance of their time on the planet.

Peace.

[Lightning Rod]

reference to honored suicide:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hari-kiri

[Lightning Rod]

Steve Sexton was my first guitar player
he accompanied me while I read poetry
we were seventeen.

He was also an artist
a sculptor
his last work was a mobile

He hung himself in his parent's garage.

[Doreen Peri]

Hari Kari?

Ha!

Well, listen, my dear, the dudes who strap bombs on their back and blow people and places to smithereens also consider their act of suicide an honored profession.

The guys who steered the planes into the World Trade Center and the Pentegon thought they were doing a grand, honored, act of suicide, too!

Bosh! That's NUTS!

geesh

[lescaret]

Yuck. Seppuku, bushido.

"With his selected attendant (kaishakunin, his second) standing by, he would open his kimono, take up his wakizashi (short sword) or a tanto (knife) and plunge it into his abdomen, making first a left-to-right cut and then a second slightly upward stroke to spill out the intestines. On the second stroke, the Kaishakunin would perform daki-kubi, a ritual in which the warrior is all but decapitated (a slight band of flesh is left attaching the head to the body)."

Now THAT is a mess! Diablo.

Doreen, you raise some fine points. The gunshot blast is indeed a messy stroke, completely inconsiderate. I don't advocate it, one should be more thoughtful.

No reason even to consider suicide bombers here. That's a different matter altogether. That isn't about body sovereignity, that's about murder.

The only human life one has a right to take is one's own.

[stilltrucking]

Anne Sexton. Well I suppose I could say she saved my sanity.

Pills I think, pills and a shrink. Later the shrink (if he was an MD he should be tried for rape) sold the tapes of their sessions together, probably did pretty good on it.


Doreen there are crazy people who kill themselves, this thing crazy I consider a programing error, others it is wired in biological.

I remember firecracker saying sylvia plath gave her the squirms. That word squirms must be some kind of chick talk, it has a couple of uses I think. sometimes sexual, and sometimes dread.

I am just chewing the cud here, interested in this man woman conversation with clay. This very good copy. excuse me for butting in.

[Doreen Peri]

The only human life one has a right to take is one's own.

This is what I'm arguing with. No human being has the right to take ANY human life, including their own.

I'm sorry to keep coming back to this thread to say the same thing over and over, it's just that, well, this is a website which I host and I don't want any viewers to misconstrue anything here. I've gone to websites where posts get deleted if they are questionable in regards to whether they are promoting suicide. There's a reason those sites have the rules they do. It has to do with this.... Suppose there is a person who is viewing who is contemplating suicide and truly thinking this act may be the answer to his or her seemingly unsolvable problems. This person is sensitive and hurt and angry and feeling hopeless. So, the person hits the web and reads that it's OK to take his or her own life. He or she may take this to heart and proceed with the task. So, certain webmasters have been sensitive to such issues and do not want to put any content on their site which even suggests that suicide could be a plausible, acceptable solution to a confused, upset, angy, hopeless situation.

People have the right to their opinions. I don't think rules like that are necessary on a website, because I don't believe in quelling people's opinions.

But I do think it's very important to keep in mind that there are many people out there who are in various stages of life who are struggling with their situations and who may be considering ending their lives.

I think it's vitally important, in a public forum like this, to stress that if someone is thinking that way, they aren't thinking clearly. They need help. In my opinion, we should take every opportunity we have to attempt to dissuade someone from contemplating such an act and help them by directing them to professionals who can work with them to sort out their problems, in order to avoid the rash and insane act of suicide, so that they can turn their lives around to be joyful experiences, not miserable ones.

I don't think it's a good thing to tell people that suicide is a viable answer. We certainly do not want to suggest to any person viewing who may be considering such an act, that it is an OK thing to do. It's not.

I believe we all need to take public responsibility with our words. We can talk philosophy all we want but there is a harsh real world out there and people have real problems and are struggling. It is our responsibility as writers in a public forum to make sure we are sensitive to the viewers.

That's my take on it. We have a responsibility to promote positive, valuable, options and never to suggest a tragic violent act is acceptable.

--------------

As far as Sylvia Plath and Anne Sexton go, their suicides were major tragedies to their families and friends. Here are two cases of fine writers who did not get the recognition they deserved, for the most part, because they were females in a male-dominated arena. They were both sensitive individuals who had a gift for viewing the world with the eyes of feminine wisdom. Both are mentors of mine. I love them dearly. I love the work of both and I wish I could have known them, personally. Unfortunately, the world at the time was also unevolved when it comes to mental struggles and both women were ostracized, hospitalized in poor conditions, and disrespected because they were struggling mentally. It is a shame.

Suicide is always tragic. Always. It is never a viable, acceptable answer.

---------

Thank you for listening to me. That's one thing Sylvia Plath and Anne Sexton didn't have.... someone to listen and care about what they were saying.

I have been in situations in my life where suicide has crossed my mind. I was scared. I was ultimately alone. And I was in so much mental pain that it was almost unbearable. I understand this state of mind and I do not want to go there again. But should I ever get into that state of mind again, I hope that I do not hit the web and read something that states that suicide is OK and an acceptable answer. That would be, indeed, tragic, if I read something like that while I was feeling so low and hopeless.

[hester_prynne]

Despite worries of being attacked or ridiculed, following what may be considered by some to have been a fall from grace on my part, I am compelled to rise from those perceptions and compliment Lescaret on a beautiful tribute to Hunter.

When I heard the news I felt like I absolutely understood why he elected to do this. It saddens me, but I can't say it hasn't crossed my own mind in the recent past.....

RIP Hunter. I hear you.

H

[lescaret]

Point well taken, Doreen. Forgive me my indiscriminate postings. On such a topic one would do well to think more 360 degreely, which I neglected to do.

My statements ("bravo...to suicide" being the most glaring example) were made from a theoretical perspective, and hastily at that.

A few weeks ago, early one morning while surfing around the net a bit before settling into work, I happened upon some on-line journal site (the name of which escapes me right now) and the first entry I read, barely 10 minutes old, was a suicide letter from someone. The whole nine yards. Good-byes to mother, father, friends, "you don't need me anymore", etc. I had no reason to think it was anything but authentic and, with an aching stomach, replied to the letter imploring him to reconsider. I have no idea what ever happened.

So I hear you.

There are two rules to remember when thinking about commiting suicide.

1. Suicide should always be a last resort.

2. There is no last resort that cannot be overcome by living.

Om Ah Hum.

[stilltrucking]

. There is no last resort that cannot be overcome by living.

"thoughts of suicide have got me thru the night"
jack daniels on the right miller on the left i will make it thru the goddam night"


Oh daddiooooooooo

oh no you can't take that away from me

[Dave The Dov]

Perfect send off song for Hunter S. Thompson!!!! Viva Las Vegas by The Dead Kennedys!!!!
_________________
Honda S800

[stilltrucking]

thanks dave, is that where I heard it, I couldn't remember

after my father died I could not fall asleep at night unless I conjured up the image of a shot gun under my chin and the sound of a click, that was like a macabre lul a bye I used to tell myself, I talked about it with my big brother who was a young physicain I told him i needed to talk to a pyschiatrist, at the time he did not believe in psychiatry and he tried to dissuade me. but eventualy he saw it my way, my six months or so I saw the shrink were interestin, disscusions about my red austin healy sprite as a penis symbol and stuff like that. What probably helped me more was moving away from everyone I knew, my family I mean.

i see some gender issue here about men and women and suicide but I am too dumb to articulate it.

sometimes I believe a suicide is accidental, if that makes it any easier for friends and family

[stilltrucking]

shamatha1

I am going to put it down as a accidental suicide. No mention of note, the man was a gun nut, he may have been drunk and stoned toying with the idea.

my last post