to where does privacy extend?

[stilltrucking]

I get to go but I had to see what GA had to say about this. I knew it would be helpful.

no friendship with her today. i can't tell her anything, because i know she'd use whatever i said against me. she'd use it to manipulate me.

GA on a unrelated note about mother's and daughters.

I been trying out how to cash in on my family. I was able to reconcile with my mother before she died. But being a son is a cake walk compared to being a daughter.

My sister would get so sad when she told me about what her mother did to her when she was 15. She came into her room and knocked all of her little chatzkies(sp?) off the top of the bureau onto the floor. A lot of glass stuff broke. Then she tore up her beatles pictures.

For a long time I thought that incident was the reason why my sister could not bear to talk about her mother.. It was only years later that I figured out that there was another deeper more painful reason for her anger. Now we can talk about her agian. Laugh enjoy the good times again. Never to late to feel a mother's love. Oh shit I feel a ramble coming on about Aureila/Medusa's snakey tentacles cross ing the ocean like the atlantic telephone cable.

gone gone
Knip I knew she would say some thing that was going to be a gem.

[Dave The Dov]

knip you brought your child into this world and sometimes fall from grace will happen. You will work it out in the end to the best of your knowledge. I'm pulling for you!!!!
_________________
Learning Disorders Forum

[whimsicaldeb]

...but he's convinced himself there's nothing wrong with what he's doing (smoking pot 2, 3, 4 times a day), and he's got so much THC in him he can't reason all that well anymore...but he can't see it himself

i don't focus on the use though, because i don't think use is all that bad....it's like getting drunk isn't all that bad...but if you become a mean drunk, or if frequent drunkedness causes you to flunk out of school, insult and steal from the people that love you, and cause you to lose all your true friends such that the only friends left are the ones in the same boat...then that is a problem...add to that his asthma and the effects of the dope on that, and it gets frigging scary

these things aren't the fault of dope,...they are the fault of misuse of dope...just as drunk driving isn't caused by alcohol, it's caused by misuse of alcohol or being unable to control one's behaviour on alcohol -- knip

These are all signs that your son is addicted. He's no longer just 'causually using' ... he's become addicted...

Psychological signals:

* use of drugs or alcohol as a way to forget problems or to relax
* withdrawal or keeping secrets from family and friends
* loss of interest in activities that used to be important
* problems with schoolwork, such as slipping grades or absences
* changes in friendships, such as hanging out only with friends who use drugs
* spending a lot of time figuring out how to get drugs
* stealing or selling belongings to be able to afford drugs
* failed attempts to stop taking drugs or drinking
* anxiety, anger, or depression
* mood swings

Physical signals:

* changes in sleeping habits
* feeling shaky or sick when trying to stop
* needing to take more of the substance to get the same effect
* changes in eating habits, including weight loss or gain

-----

Your son's addicted, and the sooner you intervene the better for everyone. Sounds like you’re familiar with the process and know what to do. Best of luck ~ to all of you.

[Arcadia]

do you consider the temperature-factor?. Reading Deb síntomas make me think that we are all maybe a bit addicted here in summer... anyway, dialogue is all, you´ll be OK.

[abcrystcats]

Knip: I should make it VERY clear that I am not a parent. When I think about myself at that age, I am clueless. I have no idea how my parents should have handled me. Even though I was relatively conservative in my choices, I was still far and away from what my parents expected, and I was determined to veer off that beaten path in certain ways.

You seem to have strived to explain some of the nuances of all this to your son, and he is still as whimsicaldeb describes: an apprentice addict.

Yeah, this bothered me too:

he's got so much THC in him he can't reason all that well anymore...but he can't see it himself

Uh oh.

I'm worried. And this is a VERY young age to be starting out on the road to addiction.

I just don't know how to counsel you.

I still think that your rifling through his room was a totally justified action, and that it has nothing whatsoever to do with your relationship to him. As his LANDLORD you could have done it. You had reasonable suspicion and you have to protect yourself. He is the one out of line here, if you made it clear that you didn't want certain activities in the house, and he brought them in.

When you use personal examples, it could have more than one effect. My mother used them with me (on another subject). I did the exact same things she did, but I used cautions she didn't use and prevented the disasters. Your son could perhaps be thinking, "Well, I'm not LIKE him -- that will NEVER be me." and get himself in trouble by thinking that. I fear that is exactly what he did. He figured he was special, and you weren't. Big mistake. He's going to be matching up your stories to his, and if he didn't do EXACTLY what you did, he's going to think he's safe --off the hook.

I still maintain that using HARD drugs should be a MAJOR no-no in any family. Sorry, but this is just too scary for me --your kid experimenting with LSD, crystal meth, and so on. I did mushrooms once, but I never told my parents about it. The fact that I didn't tell them didn't blow the experience and it doesn't make my relationship with my parents any less real, either. Parents should set boundaries. Can you wander outside the boundaries? Yeah, you can, but it is a good idea to make sure your kids know that outside, there be dragons.

On the other hand, hindsight is the best sight there is.

I have no kids. If I had, I might have done the same as you,and thought it good. [/b]

[sooZen]

Knip...you are a good daddy, it is obvious how much you care for your son and that is the most important thing.

I firmly believe that when you are in charge, paying the way, feeding and clothing, and watching out for them, then you have every right to look in the nooks and crannies. (check for any ticks while you are there. )

When my boys got mad at me for any restriction or so called "invasion of privacy", I would remind them, "That's my job!"

My daddy told me once, "when you are in my home, I am driving the train..."

It is best if trust is first established, honesty counts greatly. Does he know your history? Does he respect you? Do you tell him how much you love and care for him?

A mediator may help, a family friend he can talk to that knows you both or an outsider that is objective. Help is out there.

Our frontal lobes (the part of the brain that makes choices) isn't fully developed until we are in our late twenties...until that time, we all can be foolish.

Hang in there...it will pass. Hold on to him.

[stilltrucking]

It is best if trust is first established, honesty counts greatly. Does he know your history? Does he respect you? Do you tell him how much you love and care for him?

My point exactly, but I did not express it so well.

I don't remember ever touching my father, or him touching me.

[knip]

i've been using the love word a lot lately...he doesn't like it




yes, he knows all the history

mediation, intervention, don't know...one side of me says he's just being a kid, but there's also rage and other stuff going on that gets my spidey senses telling me there's something wrong

at this point, we are floundering

next thursday, we get some professional help...for us, first, then we'll see where we go

to be fair, i'm abandoning my wife to deal with all this, as i'm heading back to sea


not much fair about that, i know

[stilltrucking]

but there's also rage and other stuff going on that gets my spidey senses telling me there's something wrong

That is worrisome. I hope the professional help, helps. I hope your wife and your son can be friends.

take care

[sooZen]

Knip...It is hard to be a Daddy when you cannot be present and unfortunately your job makes it impossible. Your comings and goings may be what he is dealing with and acting out?

Good that you are getting advice and hopefully that will be of some help.

I always trust my 'spidey senses' or my 'jiminey cricket' (whatever you call intuition.) If one senses something is wrong, it surely is...

Keep using that LOVE word buddy, until he gets used to it.

Bless your lady (his mother), she will need it.

[sooZen]

That is worrisome. I hope the professional help, helps. I hope your wife and your son can be friends.

Well Truck, i am not sure that being friends is important when it comes to one's children. I think I know what you mean but my children never considered me a 'friend.'

In fact, they hated me often and would tell me so but they loved me just as fiercely.

I monitered all their friends and kept close tabs on oldest Noah until he left home for college.

I established early on in our relationship that we (the parents) had only their (our boys) best interests at heart, more so than anyone else, including the 'friends.'

Being a parent is the hardest job one will ever do...and the most rewarding if you can get them up and out of the nest fairly unscathed or scarred by your actions.

[stilltrucking]

The son spends much more time with his mother than he does with his father. I hope that his mother goes to the therapy session with knip.

but my children never considered me a 'friend.'

I would hope that as adults your children consider you a friend. My mother was the best friend I have ever had.

I meant adult children. It took me ten years to from the time I almost commited suicide by matricide until that night Rose and I talked for hours. Her with her ciup of coffee and a bagel, me with my moldy rye bread and ergot sandwhich. http://www.uh.edu/engines/epi1037.htm

From that time until her death ten years later she was my best friend. She only broke my heart a couple of times. I broke hers a lot. I was a very folish son for many years.

I can't ask knip to put his family business on the street. There is a dark secrete hear knip suspects. Maybe knip should pick a tarot card, or run his son's horoscope. That ain't smart ass SooZe it sure sounds like one I know. But I just don't know. All we are hearing is knip's side of the story. I am curious what his wife thinks.

[knip]

we keep bringing up my wife


trust me...she exists...she's just not an internet user


i know...i don't get it either


yes, i am mainly going to the meetings to support my wife...like my son, she doesn't listen much to what i say, despite considerable first hand experience that i actually remember


i've thought about whether this going to sea stuff is a cause...perhaps it is...perhaps it isn't...i certainly don't feel like it's a contributing factor...i think he just wants to have fun, and it has gotten out of control...that is certainly what happened to me...but i know from personal experience that there is a great likelihood that things get a lot worse before they get better...having been to hell and back, i'm trying to save him the trip...yes, it can be character building, but that's not the only way to build character...and knowing how close i came to throwing everything away during that long sleep, i know the experiecne could just as easily have been graveyard-building as character building


but right now wifey is still in the mode where she thinksshe can save him from everything and mold him in her image...i know it's too late for that...

he told us last night "why worry about getting kicked out of school when they just let you right back in again?"

not a bad point...

i wouldn't have such grief if there was some goal in mind...school success isn't the only road to achievment...but the only goal right now is to get as stoned as possible as often as possible...the biggest problem of which, as i see it, is he's too polluted to think about anything but how to get stoned again


like i say, i been there, and it is much more likely to get worse before it gets better

sometimes i think the best thing is to speed up the inevitable crash, so he can get better quicker...i'm starting to realize how much lower my strength is dealing with these things than i thought

[mtmynd]

knipper -

Great site here, eh? Coming into this days later and having read the replies, I must say "Good people with good advice!"

Teenage life... we've all gone thru it, albeit nowadays there's more out there to get fucked up with and by. It is your responsibility to monitor his situation at this point in his life... not only when he turns 18, but as long as he's living off your support. To do any less would give the signal that you don't really care, as shitty as that sounds. However, those signals get interpreted that way, especially at that (his) age.

This thing about frontal lobe development and it not reaching full maturity until (some say) late 20's is hampered by alcohol and drugs as probably most of us older folks have seen amongst some of our peers at that age.... so many that were wrecked from the experiences from booze and/or drugs without discrimination.

I would encourage you, as others have, to not short change your love towards the boy regardless of how he interprets it. He'll wake up from this stupor one day and recall your caring. Reconnection will happen. Until then love, care, hug... and never lose your sense of humor - share it with him as you should share your own teen years. Let him know how fucked up you were during that time of life... but only when you sense his listening and not just hearing you.

Good luck, buddy...

[sooZen]

Truck...his boy is not an adult. My boys are now adults and consider their parents as the best of friends. Presently...(zen )


Knip,

Of course I agree with MT, he always dealt with the guys with a great sense of humor and that laughter can defuse a lot of tense situations.

like my son, she doesn't listen much to what i say, despite considerable first hand experience that i actually remember Smile

Okay...I can sense (with my spidey senses) that there is a lot to cover here. Everyone needs to listen...

i've thought about whether this going to sea stuff is a cause...perhaps it is...perhaps it isn't...i certainly don't feel like it's a contributing factor..

My nephew had a hell of a time at that age because his family kept moving around from place to place, school to school, etc. It took a good long while to finally adjust and get his head straight. He is 29 now and still living at home.

Your not being there is most certainly a contributing factor and I think that because I know how important a routine, consistency and having parents present mean to kids.

And you are absolutely right in that you should do all in your power to save him.

right now wifey is still in the mode where she thinks she can save him from everything and mold him in her image...i know it's too late for that...

Pardon me but I must say that you and the 'wifey' need to get some stuff together first before you and she can help your boy.
It is only a feeling.

Picture: Young man is escaping with whatever means possible, as often as possible. You may need to rethink 'why ?'...

I truly hope that you get a handle on him and your family. Only the best is felt for you.