gay marriage

[abcrystcats]

I'm finally unruffled enough to vote on this matter:

I would choose #4. The state ought to stay out of it altogether. "The government that governs least, governs best."

Choosing #4 implies #2. It ought to be available to anybody.

As for #3 -- #4 is an ideal. The State's already got its dirty hands in up to the elbows in just about everything we do. I say, let's have a revolution and get them OUT, then we don't have to deal with their hopelessly complicated consequences. Forget about working with 'em if it's going to be unfair to some people.

[mnaz]

even though I think it's a separate question from the poll topic (sneaky one, L.R.).... But yeah, let's get the state out of it... just hand out some bennies to those who are raising kids... Yeah. Why not?

[abcrystcats]

forget the bennies! Those cost MONEY!

Seriously, overpopulation is a problem, and isn't it a private decision to have a child?

[mnaz]

So you're much more on my page than I ever imagined! Cool. If I ran the world (with my mnaz Iron Fist), I would probably yank all those "family values" perks, or at least be seriously tempted to. It is a personal choice to procreate. Therefore, the procreators should personally foot the bill. Well....on second thought, I would probably just cut the existing level of bennies, not nix them entirely.... that just seems too extreme.

Hmm... then again, I wonder if people wanting to start a family even think about these "bennies" anyway?.... probably not much, I would guess. Ok, Ok, the bennies are GONE!!! Long live the mnaz Iron Fist Kingdom!!
We're gonna clean up this place!!

[Lightning Rod]

mnaz--sneaky is my middle name

cat-- bennies aren't nearly as expensive if you make them yourself. Oops , there I go again, about to get in trouble with my chemistry set.

z-ko--I can think of another logical (or illogical) tree. (wait, not the cherry tree) George III/George Washington/Martha Washington/Martha Stewart/ The Stewart Restoration/George I/George II/Did I already say Martha Stewart?/Martha Bush.

[abcrystcats]

I must've been incredibly unclear in my original posts about this topic, because you, Mnaz (of all people), thought I was advocating Social Services promoting childbirth. NOT!

I outlined the various financial advantages and government subsidized perks that accrue to MARRIED couples. I stated the reasons why these government subsidized programs exist (economy, and belief in so-called "family values") and I said "the government isn't going to want those benefits passed out to couples who generally do not produce children" FYI, there are anywhere between 1049 and 1109 benefits in this category.

I also said, over and over, distributing those benefits to a new group could bankrupt Social Security and a bunch of other federally funded programs. It could be a mess.

I never said I was against gay marriage for these reasons. The programs should never have been there, in the first place. I am very Jeffersonian, in that respect (blame Ayn Rand).

I speculated WHY I thought the federal government was never, ever going to give in to the idea of gay marriage (federally funded programs) and I offered an alternative that I thought was more workable. That is, IF people really want gay marriage to be a reality in our lifetimes, instead of just talking about what we would ideally like to have.

Does that make me an evil homophobe? I think not.

But, fine, who am I to say "work with the status quo to get this done"? I was thinking about gay marriage in, say, five years ... as opposed to somewhere between 10 years and never.

If you ask me what I would REALLY like -- it's none of these social programs, at all. Marriage should not confer special financial favors on anyone. It's a private deal. As for children --that too, is a private deal. There are ways around having children. Those ways weren't in existence 100 years ago, but they are now. If you don't want the additional burden on your finances, don't have kids. Don't come wandering into some government office with your hand out!

That may sound cold, to many liberal Litkickers, I don't know. But that is what I would like to see, given all the ideal options.

I hope that, once and for all, this puts the topic to rest. Jiminy Crickets!

[mnaz]

Yes. You were illustrating the government's likely point of view and not your own. I get it. I'm clear on that.... (also, I was goofing a little, anyway).

I wish these family-related bennies had never existed. And I certainly don't think they should have been pushed as far as they have been. But at this point in time, I think reduction, rather than elimination, would be the fairest, most practical way to proceed (good luck with that one).

Which is to say, I agree, essentially.

But then, I'm a Godless, irresponsible, "selfish" single person....
Hmm.... "selfish".... I love it when I hear THAT one from the procreators.... the pot calling the kettle black, perhaps?...

[abcrystcats]

I guess I'm a little slow on the uptake, here I thought you meant LRod's "bennies" not "benefit" bennies. Even if unintended, it was a nice play on words! I know that if I had kids right now, I'd be poppin' some of those bennies LRod is making with his alleged chemistry set.

As for your being selfish, gee, Ayn Rand would have called that "rational self-interest" and in this day and age, having children is just about the most selfish thing a person can do. How many more people can this poor Earth support? There is ONE child between the three siblings in my family. That is plenty. I doubt there will be any more.

Just once more: you took the time to understand my posts. Quit kicking yourself. And I hit you a few times, when I shouldn't have, so you have nothing to apologize for.

[hester_prynne]

Why Mr. Zlatko...if I ever find you've disabled one of my smilies i'll just have to schizzle nizzle your grizzle!
heh

[Zlatko Waterman]

God bless your sweet torchsinging voice.

As a fellow Oregonian, I wish you fecund mist from the Columbia-- new, affluent employment, and music coursing through your fecund brain.

For you, I would disable or enable, whichever pleases the Princessa of the Columbia's Mouth.

Nice to hear from you again in Doreen's cozy forum,


"Zlatko"


(NM)

[hester_prynne]

Let wishes be horses! Let this beggar ride!
Thank you Zlatko for your wishes, I'm wishing those things too, especially the affluent employment.
Funny, this long ride of coasting and scrapping
Somedays, I figure, maybe i'm just overqualified for everything.
Others, I wonder if I'm downright unemployable and too dense to accept it.

It's always and honor and a pleasure to be in the same circle as you Zlatko.
I"m glad you are here.
H