Internet observation(s), admission

[Nazz]

The long, long thread on Cheney/Bush I think (finally) taught me to just stop when it becomes clear it's pointless to go much further. You'd think a few years on the boards should have made it obvious, but it was never that simple. When something devolves from promising discussion toward energy-drain, just stop, that's all. No matter how much anyone may irritate the living crap out of you (that day inevitably comes), on the board play it straightforward with any new input of your own, especially if it's their thread. I failed to do that last time, I screwed up. I'm not sure if a different approach could have changed things much, but that's not really the point. I mean I could say pixel perceptions of personalities thousands of miles away justified my guns-blazing entry, or some such thing, but basically I screwed up. It happens. It shouldn't. What else is new?

[XPress]

We all fall into the trap sometimes.

It's very hard not to, especially when you're locked in a thread with a "Mr I must have the last word, and it ain't gonne be honest".

I remember a notable troll of a couple of years back who would always post, after a persons final post "But you're gay though, arn't you?", no matter how irrelevant someones sexuality was to the thread, in the sure and certain knowledge that 90% of people would feel compelled to post again at that point.

It's one of the differences between real life, and the internet, in real life you reach a certain stage, and depending on what sort of person you are, you either punch the other guy square on the nose, or roll your eyes, and walk away, thinking to yourself "Surely he'd be better off in some sort of institution?"

Online it's harder to reach that position of closure, which is why trolls, and other annoying entities thrive on the net.

I have to confess, in that thread, I was as guilty as anyone of staying in to long, I should of walked the second it became obvious that there was no chance of a reasonable discussion, and that staying around would only result in slurs, smears, lies, insults, and distortions.

I can pretend, for as long as I want, that because I'm young, I was just being green, but I'd be kidding myself, I knew I should have pulled out long ago.

There's two old sayings that sprung to mind, long before I left that thread.

1. Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

2. Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics, even if you win, you're still retarded.

Perhaps in bad taste, but both sayings crossed my mind, whilst in that thread.

[Nazz]

Maybe one relevant thing to keep in mind is that at some point we're all prone to acting idiot-like. Maybe that might help to skate past some of those moments. Then again, you can't just roll over all the time either, you've got to have some spine. Not sure where the exact balance point is.

[XPress]

The balance is nearly always another two steps in front of you, or two steps behind, you're very rarely on it.

I think it's one of those things you nearly always only see in hindsight, and by then it's to late.

[tonyc]

O come on boys, quit crying.
Now put on your high heels and go singing and dancing like regular guys
Way , way, too much pity partying and talking to yourseves.
One lies, the other swears to it, the other crys, the other whines..real butt buddies
You two boys are too much....stop, you're killing me..

[tarbaby]

There was only one post on that whole stupid thread that made any sense to me.

George Bush on Dancing With The Stars.

At a certain point I became ashamed of participating in it. Tony C is a winner, I can see that. Just like his hero he knows how to win.


You have to admit George W Bush is a winner. Just like his friend Tony C
Pretty obvious to me that Tony C is a latent bush worshipper.

Well it is a bitch to lose and I feel like hell, but I should have known a natural born winner when I see one.

You just can't beat winners like Tony C and George Bush.

They will inherit the earth one day. They are the meek.

At some point Tony C will have to have the last word mnazz. He feeds on this. Every time he gets another reply his heart swells with the thrill of victory. Victory, I am a winner. Now he is making slurs against sexual orientation. That means he wants to kiss and make up. I suppose

Oh tony man you turn me on you sexxy son of a bitch

[tonyc]

You guys are soooooooooooo witty!!!
Aw hell, thought I'd stop by and trash this thread like they did mine, always eager to return favors...
Now you boys don't let me interrupt, you where having such a sweet conversation to yourselves
Stlll wanna know what a "singing, dancing, regular guy" looks like. tidally doo..

[stilltrucking]

How do you do that? Are you taking performance enhancing drugs?

One brilliant post after another,

Man I am in awe

I never met anyone like you not in the millions of miles i have trucked around this country. Never met anyone that was such a winner.

Congratulations Tony

You win again.



and I never use insincere emoticons

[Nazz]

You realize of course Tony, that no one here is buying a dime's worth of your bullshit.

And Jeezus man, why don't you use a few more emoticons? I would have thought the first hundred or so were enough, but that's just me. Only gay people use a lot of emoticons anyway, right? Haha.

Now why don't you get back to your own Oh-poor-me-someone-is-stealing-my-thread pity party. And maybe bash some Jews or something. Knock yourself out.

Now here's a suggestion, genius. You don't like what I'm posting, then don't respond to it. Radical, huh?

Now back to topic.

[XPress]

I remember a notable troll of a couple of years back who would always post, after a persons final post "But you're gay though, arn't you?", no matter how irrelevant someones sexuality was to the thread, in the sure and certain knowledge that 90% of people would feel compelled to post again at that point.

I guess for some people, and I would imagine it's predominately lonely people, with little 'real' life, the rush of interaction on the internet can skew their perspective on things, and the internet becomes to important to them, it absorbs them, consumes them, becomes their life.

The rush of an imediate answer, instant gratification, they are driven to continue, whether they have something to say or not.

Finally they are a winner, finally they are noticed, even if it's because they are an irritation, the class clown, funny or not, and so they have to have that final baiting word, to boost their ego, because a few black and white bytes, in cyber space, is all they are, and all they have left.

I guess the rest of us just have to learn to put up with it...

It does bring us on to a suplementary issue, that of moderation, and censorship.

I'm pretty much anti-moderation, and censorship, I know their was the usual whine in the other thread "But please miss, they're trying to get me banned" (which is usually code for "I know I'm being a pest, but have pity on me"), but I'm actually anti-banning people, but when is that a valid reaction, if ever?

For example, if a troll jumps into every active thread on a forum, and posts to it repeatedly, dominating it and annoying everyone.

They say "Ignore the trolls, don't feed them", but if a troll becomes so large that he dominates every aspect of a forum, so you have to scroll past him, to another page, in every thread, can you still ignore him, or indeed should you even still ignore him?

It's difficult, especially because the average troll, in his warped thinking, see's being banned not as an indictment of his anti-social behaviour, and his failure as a person, but as a badge of honor.

I've watched people banned from forums before, often serial offenders, who then run off elsewhere and cry, and whine "They couldn't handle my argument, so they banned me! It proves I won!" (Trolls are very big on "winning", even when there is no competition, or argument).

[Doreen Peri]

ok but...

tony's not a troll

he's just an opinionated person

with a style you don't like

[XPress]

ok but...

tony's not a troll

Well, tbh that's a matter of opinion.

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

IMO (and it is just my opinion) anyone who makes deliberately barbed comments concerning race, sexuality, etc., with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response, and for no other purpose, is a troll.

Tony entered this thread with no other purpose than to bait, and has again raised comments, connected to his homophobic remarks in the other thread, clearly to solicite a response, and to provoke other members, and to me, that is the act of a troll.

[Nazz]

Naw man, just keep it simple. Admit your own mistakes. In this case Tony hated any departure from one very specific topic and he let us know about it. And he's right. It's his prerogative. Of course, next time he starts a thread he may end up talking to the crickets, but that's immaterial. By his definition (and he sets it for any discussion he starts) three of us "derailed" his thread, and he's right-- by his definition. You gotta learn the rules. Nuff said.

And don't obsess over trolls XPress, that's a waste of time. Hell, I eat trolls for lunch when the occasion warrants it. It almost never does, but then you never know.

[Doreen Peri]

Danny, I know what a troll is. Believe me! We had one here for months. More than months. Maybe 2 years. A LONG time. Whatever. Kept kicking him out and he kept coming back with a new name. It was a nightmare.

Tony's not a troll. Sure, he's opinionated and sure, I agree with you that his style can be challenging and that he's angry when maybe anger isn't justified but no, he's not a troll.

Our troll used to put people's faces on donkeys, call me a whore and a slut and other ugly stuff that I don't care to remember, make sexual and violent references to the family members of our memberlist and way way worse. He trashed the place and got people very upset.

Tony is just a strongly opinionated person who has a style of debating that ignores the posts of others and also misjudges them.

He's not a troll.

[Lightning Rod]

right Nazz, we have a pretty tough troll squad around here
peer pressure is a powerful thing
just because you don't agree with someone's opinions or style doesn't make them a troll
it might make them an annoying person, but not a troll

my definition of a troll is someone who is posting for personal or commercial purposes and is really not a part of the community, is there under false pretenses or unauthorized entry