Page 1 of 2
I get so bored with long intellectual discussions about God
Posted: August 11th, 2009, 11:33 pm
by tinkerjack
"If God surpasseth the human intellect, and cannot be compassed by intellectual forms—and this is at least a defensible position—it is not intellectually honest to stulify the intellect itself by forcing God into intellectual forms which should have a very definite intellectual meaning."
God and Golem Inc. Norbert Wiener
Posted: August 12th, 2009, 1:47 pm
by Nazz
"God is so far beyond and outside our intellect!" screamed the missionaries, as they proceeded to jam their God(s) into various boxes...
"He works in mysterious ways..."
"Dog is my co-pilot." Hey, maybe I should just get into the bumpersticker industry...
Posted: August 12th, 2009, 3:01 pm
by still.trucking
I like this for a bumper sticker:
"I speak of none but the computer that is to come after me, A computer whose merest operational parameters I am not worthy to calculate."
I always thought of him as a mathematician not a theologian. I have not read that book just bits and pieces. But I did read another book by him called---
<center>THE HUMAN USE OF HUMAN BEINGS</center>
--- which I thought was a catchy tittle.
And would make a nice bumper sticker too.
They tried to get him to work on the Manhattan Project but he wanted no truck with that.
Of all the cruelties Crazy Mike put me through because of his suffering, I bless his memory because he spared me a religious indoctrination"
That has worked out well for me.
Posted: August 12th, 2009, 5:31 pm
by Barry
Hey, maybe I should just get into the bumpersticker industry...
http://www.antiqbook.com/books/bookinfo ... anguage=en
Check out
Shelter, by Marty Asher. I read it in 1992, before the whole shithouse went up in flames.
Global Thermonuclear Destruction?...CANCELED!!!
Peace & Love,
Barry
Posted: August 12th, 2009, 6:36 pm
by still.trucking
I would rather have the memory of Crazy Mike's dead rats with maggots than your experience in Sunday School.
Back in the seventies everyone was running around with those
"I found it" Bumper stickers they got from their church.
But I liked the "I lost it" sticker I saw in Nashville.
At Paestum there was only the railway station and no hotel, but travellers might spend the night comfortably at La Cava, not far away. I had done so, and in the morning was waiting at the station for the train to Naples. The only other persons on the platform were a short fat middle-aged man and a little girl, evidently his daughter. In the stillness of the country air I could hear their conversation. The child was asking questions about the railway buildings, the rails, and the switches. “Where does the other line go?” she asked as if the matter interested her greatly. “Oh, you can see”, the father replied, slightly bored, “It runs into that warehouse.” “It doesn´t go beyond?” “No, it stops there.” “And where does this line go?” “To Naples.” “And does it end there?” “No, it never ends. It goes on for ever.” “Non finisce mai?” the girl repeated in a changed voice. “Allora Iddio l´ha fatto?” “No,” said her father dryly, “God, didn´t make it. It was made by the hand of man. Le braccia dell´uomo l´hanno fatto.” And he puffed his cigar with a defiant resentful self-satisfaction as if he were addressing a meeting of conspirators.
I could understand the irritation of this vulgarian, disturbed in his secret thoughts by so many childish questions. He was some small official or tradesman of the Left, probably a Free Mason, and proud to utter the great truth that man had made the railway. God might have made the stars and the deserts and all other useless things, but everything good and progressive was the work of man. And it had been mere impatience that led him to say that the Naples line never ended. Of course it couldn’t run on for ever in a straight line. The child must have known that the earth is round, and that the continents are surrounded by water. The railways must stop at the sea, or come round in a circle. But the poor little girl’s imagination had been excited and deranged by religious fables. When would such follies die out? Commonplaces that had been dinned all my life into my ears: yet somehow this little scene shocked me. I saw the claw of Satan strike that child´s soul and try to kill the idea of God in it. Why should I mind that? Was the idea of God alive at all in me? No: if you mean the traditional idea. But that was the symbol, vague, variable, mythical, anthropomorphic; the symbol for an overwhelming reality, a symbol that named and unified in human speech the incalculable powers on which our destiny depends. To observe, record, and measure the method by which these powers operate is not to banish the idea of God; it is what the Hebrews called meditating on his ways. The modern hatred of religion is not, like that of the Greek philosophers, a hatred of poetry, for which they wished to substitute cosmology, mathematics, or dialectic, still maintaining the reverence of man for what is superhuman. The modern hatred of religion is hatred of the truth, hatred of all sublimity, hatred of the laughter of the gods. It is puerile human vanity trying to justify itself by a lie. Here, then, most opportunely, at the railway station returning from Paestum, where I had been admiring the courage and the dignity with which the Dorians recognised their place in nature, and filled it to perfection, I found the brutal expression of the opposite mood, the mood of impatience, conceit, low-minded ambition, mechanical inflation, and the worship of material comforts.
http://marquesdetamaron.blogspot.com/20 ... ayana.html
"When we arm ourselves, we arm our enemies" Norbert Wiener The Human Use of Human beings, talking about the futility of trying to keep secretes about nuclear weapons.
Ethel Rosenberg died for your sins.
Posted: August 12th, 2009, 6:49 pm
by Nazz
I think I saw one that said, "I never lost it."
Seemed a little on the arrogant side, though..
Don't hate religion; see it's beauty. Try to forgive its human fallibility and frailty. Easier said than done sometimes. Damn hard to do when religion has designs on bringing about "the end of the earth."
Posted: August 14th, 2009, 12:49 am
by mtmynd
Quote:
"If God surpasseth the human intellect, and cannot be compassed by intellectual forms—and this is at least a defensible position—it is not intellectually honest to stulify the intellect itself by forcing God into intellectual forms which should have a very definite intellectual meaning."
God and Golem Inc. Norbert Wiener
Over-intellectualizing and for what?
Posted: August 14th, 2009, 8:55 am
by stilltrucking
Nice underlining Cecil.
But I can't help you.
I used to be smart
but not anymore.
I don't understand what you are saying.
Posted: August 14th, 2009, 9:00 am
by stilltrucking
Damn hard to do when religion has designs on bringing about "the end of the earth."
I am not against religion either Nazz.
Except for the fact that the Jews always seems to wind up as road kill on the road to Damascus. Being a Jew has nothing to do with religion for me. It is a racial thing. Something I got from my mothers before me . Something my father got from his mothers before him also. And the end of world scenario of those Mega Church end timers all seem to involve my family.
Gray Steel
Posted: August 14th, 2009, 10:27 am
by tinkerjack
And the Church Lady said:
"Isn't that special"
Call me Ishmael
Posted: August 14th, 2009, 2:44 pm
by Nazz
And the end of world scenario of those Mega Church end timers all seem to involve my family.
Yes they do. Right after 9-11-01 I remember some preacher on TV declaring that Israel "
is forbidden by God to even negotiate with Palestinian Arabs." Yeah, the
Christian Zionist zealots. That's not the kind of religion (or God) I want to see as a force on this planet. That is religion's dark, destructive side, it would seem. Islam has its share of zealots too. The human family should reject all such zealotry.
Posted: August 14th, 2009, 8:27 pm
by still.trucking
nazz wrote:
That is religion's dark, destructive side, it would seem.
<center>That is man's dark and destructive side.
A disease called man
It would seem to me.
</center>
I don't know what your point was Cecil.
Posted: August 15th, 2009, 12:44 pm
by Jacob
On the title of this thread, yes, I sometimes get bored with it. Sometimes it's important to focus on the things that really matter, whilst the rest argue with themselves as to whose god is greater.
Posted: August 15th, 2009, 1:30 pm
by still.trucking
Maybe there is some confusion here. Maybe I should have posted the full title of the book. The book was as much about golem as god.
maybe even more so.
about computers and science than religion.
<center>
GOD AND GOLEM, Inc.
A Comment on Certain Points where
Cybernetics Impinges on Religion
</center>
You can read the book or download it
<center>
Here</center>
Old Norbert was hip.
He was no Oppenheimer
Norbert Wiener:
DARK HERO OF THE INFORMATION AGE.
Posted: August 15th, 2009, 1:37 pm
by still.trucking
Sorry about the confusion. I think I gave this thread a bad title. My shitty sense of humor.
And Eisenhower asked the new M.A.N.I.A.C. computer
"Is there a god? and the computer answered, "there is now". Joseph Campbell quoted from geezer memory.