Speaking of unemployment

Go ahead. Talk about it.
Non Sum

Post by Non Sum » May 7th, 2010, 4:18 pm

Hi ST,
I was unaware of Texas’s removal of Thomas Jefferson, but I can’t say that it overly surprises me.

ST: Were you in the Marine Corp Non Sum? If you don't mind me asking.

NS: Don’t mind at all. Yes, I was (1963-7). I like to think that I helped to speed up the ending of that war by voting with my feet. I still hope for the day when ‘they call a war, and nobody shows up.’ Were you a Marine, ST?

Hi
Barry: My issue with corporate income taxation is that corporations function legally as "persons" in many ways on the one hand, yet when it comes to taxation, persons are taxed in one way and corporate entities in another.

NS: Yes, corporations are taxed on their profits, which are then handed from the ‘legal (fiction) entity’ to its non-fictional owners (share holders) who are then taxed again on the exact same profits. It’s clearly a case of double taxation. Private individual’s only get taxed on profits one time.

B: Persons are taxed on their entire cash-flow, with some deductions.

NS: No, just like a business, an individual may deduct all relevant expenses as a cost to determine their net profit, which is only then taxed if the amount exceeds minimal per person living expenses (self & all dependents), and then one may go on to itemize several of life’s expenses (housing, medical, charity, etc.), or take a standard deduction instead. In short, no income tax applies for a couple’s first $1,600 each month.

B: they get "breaks" on that from state and federal gov't. in order to "attract" them.

NS: And, this is not good because…? Since you now know that ‘all’ business taxes are passed on to you, why on earth would you want higher taxes for businesses? Are you still laboring under the misconception that businesses use money that is not your own to pay whatever taxes you demand they pay? Why not demand that your wife pay more taxes, it would amount to the same sort of result for your family.

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hester_prynne
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Post by hester_prynne » May 7th, 2010, 9:24 pm

Whatever.
All I know is that after this week I have made a decision.
From now on, I am only going to deposit enough money in my account each payday to cover my rent and bills as they won't let me pay cash for them.
Everything else is going into a personal strong box that is fireproof that I am buying myself tommorrow for mothers day.
Taxes, revenues, etc dont' mean shit to me. But what does bother me is the blatent thievery I have seen abounding this week.
IT STINKS and I have absolutely no faith or belief in the financial systems as they stand right now, they are all set to rob the hardest workers, who get paid the least and that is, in my book, unforgiveable and I will never trust anybody again with what little pittance I earn.
It's shameful and bullying.
I am shocked and appalled.
I think many many Americans are feeling this way.
I am also going to send Washington a message by voting out all incumbents, no matter what their party. Our governing body is sold out, untrustworthy, weak and stupid. I'm tired of their fear mongering. It's time to scare them a little, see how they like it.
Buncha assholes.
H 8)
"I am a victim of society, and, an entertainer"........DW

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Barry
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Post by Barry » May 7th, 2010, 9:27 pm

Here's a thought...Gov't., be it state or federal, wants to attract businesses to their locale. For simplification, let's use states.

Businesses need quality employees, educated, responsible, dependable people. But such people, the majority of whom have children, might be averse to living in a locale where schools are not quite up to par; they have the future of their children to consider beyond their own immediate needs as regards who they can or want to work for; ie, where they might need to live. This is a factor in the decision-making businesses go through in choosing a locale to base operations.

States want to attract businesses because businesses provide jobs, and more jobs means more taxpayers. The question then becomes, how should states go about attracting businesses to their locale? The accepted mode seems to be through tax breaks. Businesses let states know they are considering basing there and the state then extends tax breaks to businesses to offset the expense of establishing operations in that state.

Have I got it right so far?

But if the schools in the region don't meet the standard prospective quality employees of said business desire, the business then might have a hard time attracting quality employees.

So the state wants to attract businesses to provide more jobs, thus increasing the number of taxpayers, and the businesses want to attract quality employees, but the quality employees want good schools, and the state can't provide good schools because of the tax breaks they feel they must extend to the businesses they want to attract, and so the businesses, in the end, do not locate in the state, providing no jobs with which to increase the number of taxpayers, and the schools of said state remain in an abysmal condition.

This is the Catch-22 of trickle-down economics we find ourselves in at both the state and federal level after thirty years of the Reagan Revolution.

Business should thrive, yes, but not at the expense of the People.

Peace,
Barry
PS: But what if states provide excellent living and child-rearing conditions with which to attract prospective quality employees, thus forcing the hand of businesses, using fair and equitable taxation as a means to that end? Wouldn't that be a beautiful world? This is the way it once was done. I blame the railroads. The problem all started with them. They were the first of the "corporate entities" to begin the take-over of gov't. of the People, by the People, for the People.
Last edited by Barry on May 7th, 2010, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Barry
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Post by Barry » May 7th, 2010, 9:49 pm

In short, no income tax applies for a couple’s first $1,600 each month.
Even if this were factual, about which I have my doubts, that barely covers the mortgage for most folks. What about food, car insurance, car payment, electricity, water, fuel, gasoline, college tuition, phone, internet, cable TV, all the crap the kids want, Mom's Mother's Day gift, Christmas presents, Easter expenses, shit, I could go on all night.

For a family, these are operating expenses. Few of us ever turn a profit. And the write-offs in no way equal the actual expenditures.

Peace,
Barry

Non Sum

Post by Non Sum » May 8th, 2010, 9:25 am

Hi Hester,
HP: Everything else is going into a personal strong box that is fireproof that I am buying myself tomorrow for mothers day.

NS: No ‘strong box’ has yet been designed to keep out the tax collectors. Most especially the insidious tax of inflation, which is making steady withdrawals from your treasure at about 5% p.a. at this very moment. Expect that rate of government thievery to triple in a couple of years.

I can understand your strong feelings about financial distrust, Hester, and can only say, ‘welcome to the real world,’ which is the same as it has ever been. It is only reflecting nature herself. It never stopped being a jungle out there, where only the fittest & luckiest survive, let alone prosper. Wealth is no free ticket, but only something more to protect, and strong boxes are a laughably ineffective protection.

If you hate to mess with finance, be glad you’ve only a pittance to preserve. My own ‘hate’ is to be a (wage) slave to others, selling my few hours of life to the highest bidder. That reason alone has motivated me to learn the dangerous games of finance, and fight the good financial fight day in and day out.

HP: It's shameful and bullying.

NS: No, it’s just life itself; you could lose it all in an instant of time. Nothing in life is ever secure, nor lasting for long.

”The body of man, composed of the essence of food, is the physical sheath of the Self. All beings feed upon food, and, when they die, food feeds upon them.” (Tittiriya Upanishad, Hindu wisdom scripture)

Hi
Barry: Even if this were factual, about which I have my doubts,

NS: From this I conclude that you don 't do your own taxes, and never read your 1040 Instructions.

B: that barely covers the mortgage for most folks. What about food, car insurance, car payment, electricity, water, fuel, gasoline, college tuition, phone, internet, cable TV, all the crap the kids want, Mom's Mother's Day gift, Christmas presents, Easter expenses, shit, I could go on all night.

NS: If you check, I said "basic expenses." Who would ever want 'profits' if they didn't apply to all that excessive indulgence you mention? Any fool can spend for a lot of junk, and claim these are essentials. That is why 'a fool and his money are soon parted.' As a 'back-to-nature-hippy' I (2 people) live on about $600 pm. Anyone could, if they didn't want to polute, and waste their lives buying, and careing for, "all the crap" you mentioned. Simplify, and you will be rich in money and quality of life.
NS (Never Squanders)

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still.trucking
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Post by still.trucking » May 8th, 2010, 10:22 am

Thanks for answering my question non sum.
No I never got to serve. I tried to enlist after the Gulf of Tonkin incident but I was classified 4F mentally unfit for military service. It shamed me because others had to go in my place. I wrote a letter to selective service trying to prove I was sane. But no dice. Maybe it was a catch 22 thing. Only a crazy person would want to fly more missions?

One more question if you don't mind. Do you give any money to charity?
"Natural selection, as it has operated in human history, favors not only the clever but the murderous." Barbara Ehrenreich

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Post by Doreen Peri » May 8th, 2010, 11:26 am

Non Sum said
My own ‘hate’ is to be a (wage) slave to others, selling my few hours of life to the highest bidder.
Me too.

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hester_prynne
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Post by hester_prynne » May 8th, 2010, 1:38 pm

HP: It's shameful and bullying.
NS: No, it’s just life itself; you could lose it all in an instant of time. Nothing in life is ever secure, nor lasting for long.

When it's life itself that I could lose in an instant of time, well NS, yes that insecurity I can deal with in fact, rather easily.
I do not equate cheating as a valid insecurity. Nor do I equate nature a party to it. If anything, a victim of it.

NS; ”The body of man, composed of the essence of food, is the physical sheath of the Self. All beings feed upon food, and, when they die, food feeds upon them.”

A beautiful sentiment indeed. However it misses my point completely.
H 8)
"I am a victim of society, and, an entertainer"........DW

Non Sum

Post by Non Sum » May 8th, 2010, 1:48 pm

Hi
ST: It shamed me because others had to go in my place.

NS: The US Government should be ashamed for sending any of its citizens to continue a colonial war, and then fighting, not to win, but to “contain” a native people from self-determination. I knew several kids who died in Nam due to a failed and malevolent US policy.

ST: Maybe it was a catch 22 thing. Only a crazy person would want to fly more missions?

NS: I see it that’a way, but I know some get a real kick out of playing the game of war. Count those as being the majority of Marines. Mental illness is no less a malfunctioning simply because it is “normal,” even lauded, behavior.
President Ford gave me a Clemency discharge due to exceptional sanity, several years later. :wink:

So, you’re a pilot? What did/do you fly?

ST: Do you give any money to charity?

NS: Not like I did pre-retirement. Besides our local animal shelter, where I donate pet food; I’m only sticking with Amnesty International (A.I.) these days for money contributions, as I see the evil done by governments to surpass all other human ills. I’ve been at war with governments for a long time. They are, by their very nature, the enemies of human liberty.

My first protest march, including the blocking of a pharmacy entrance, was against the state of MA, which at the time had it illegal to publish, or distribute, ‘information’ to women concerning birth control. (Beware the dreaded evil: ‘information’) Abortion was also illegal at that time. There’s always plenty of just wars, such as that one, to enlist yourself into ST.

Non Sum

Post by Non Sum » May 8th, 2010, 2:04 pm

HP: I do not equate cheating as a valid insecurity.

NS: What constitutes its invalidity as a cause to feel less than secure?

HP: Nor do I equate nature a party to it. If anything, a victim of it.

Ns: Where do you assume human nature (with all its pros & cons) comes from, if not from nature? Are we synthetics?

HP: A beautiful sentiment indeed. However it misses my point completely.

NS: It being…?
I think it is you who misses the larger point that thievery, brutality, and murder, come from all sorts of directions, including our fellow humans. And that it really doesn’t matter a heck of a lot, in the final analysis, whether a virus or a felon steals your wealth, health, or kills you outright. Nor, can we exclude either cause from its ultimate source, i.e. ‘nature.’

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Post by still.trucking » May 8th, 2010, 6:04 pm

Thanks for the reply Non Sum. I have no right to ask those questions. I appreciate your tolerance.

No not a pilot. I did take flying lessons. I never got to solo because of my draft status. I could not pass the FAA flight physical.

I was thinking of the novel Catch-22.
There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one's safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he was sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn't have to; but if he didn't want to he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch-22

.
"Natural selection, as it has operated in human history, favors not only the clever but the murderous." Barbara Ehrenreich

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Barry
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Post by Barry » May 8th, 2010, 9:45 pm

It is my greatest wish to never give up learning what's right for being right.

Peace,
Barry

Non Sum

Post by Non Sum » May 8th, 2010, 10:15 pm

ST: I was thinking of the novel Catch-22.

NS: Ah, yes! I forgot that he was a pilot. Never read the book, but loved the movie with Alan Arkin.

ST: Thanks for the reply Non Sum. I have no right to ask those questions. I appreciate your tolerance.

NS: Not at all. You’ve every right to ask whatever you wish to ask, and I, every right to answer whatever I wish to answer. Besides, you strike me as a fellow hard not to like. It’s a pleasure to speak with you, thank you.

Barry: It is my greatest wish to never give up learning what's right in favor of being right.

NS: My own take on “right,” is that it’s pretty much a subjective affair. We’re lucky on those rare occasions to even discover what is ‘right’ for ourselves.
Peace to you as well, Barry.

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creativesoul
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crazy pay

Post by creativesoul » May 8th, 2010, 10:21 pm

back in the day someone like me had a position in a tribe- now the goverment gives us crazy pay---they asked me what i saw in the inkspots and i told them straight up, two bears and four huming birds---
guess im crazy!
reason is over rated, as is logic and common sense-i much prefer the passions of a crazy old woman, cats and dogs and jungle foliage- tropic rain-and a defined sense of who brings the stars up at night and the sun up in the morning---

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stilltrucking
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Post by stilltrucking » May 8th, 2010, 11:37 pm

Yes I am a hell of a nice guy. It is my shtick. What is your shtick Non Sum?

I could never see anything but inkblots. I lack imagination I guess.
Last edited by stilltrucking on May 9th, 2010, 7:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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