Friday Night Thinking

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mtmynd
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Friday Night Thinking

Post by mtmynd » July 9th, 2010, 11:51 pm

I was reading an article in a magazine today which began "The U.S. has lost over 42,000 factories since 2001 and some 5.5 million manufacturing jobs since the turn of the millennium."

I made an attempt to google some info on these figures and in doing so ran into several articles throughout the past 10 years that reflected closures of some sort or another. A few examples follow:
Furniture plant closings hit Virginia region hard
By Thomas Russell -- Furniture Today, May 24, 2010

According to the Virginia Economic Development Partnership, 41 furniture plants have closed in Virginia since 2000, eliminating 7,237 jobs.

full article: http://www.furnituretoday.com/article/5 ... n_hard.php
An article on Swingline Staplers in NY _ originally published in 2000

Swingline's decision to leave should have come as no surprise to the people who worked there. Indeed, many had been regulars at union protests against the North American Free Trade Agreement, the treaty that ultimately convinced the company to move. Negotiated in 1994, NAFTA reduced tariffs and made it easier for factories to leave the U.S. for Mexico or Canada. It delivered as promised. Between 1994 and 1998, more than 440,000 U.S. factory jobs were lost, mostly from companies lured by NAFTA's promise of lower wages and higher profits. In New York City, 70-year-old Swingline was the largest and most visible casualty.

full article: http://www.citylimits.org/news/articles ... he-factory
From a USDA article from 2006:

As textile and apparel trade liberalized over the last few years, production shifted to countries with lower wages, and apparel imports increased in the United States. As a result, many U.S. textile and apparel plants closed; some firms went out of business and others relocated production overseas. The United States lost more than 900,000 textile and apparel jobs over 1994-2005.
full article: http://www.ers.usda.gov/briefing/cotton ... pparel.htm
There's a potload of info on the subject out there one can peruse, but I was lead into this by the initial article and it's report of losses since 2001... the ominous year that the majority voted into office George W. Bush. The public's memory is short but there was a great deal of downturn for the majority of folks in the country, incremental steps that has left us in the horrible financial condition we are in today, high unemployment being the number 1 culprit which seems to have no end in sight.

William Jefferson Clinton's Presidency ran from 1993 thru 2001 before Bush entered the office. NAFTA was signed into law shortly after Bill became President, September 1993. This was highly touted as being the right thing for not only the U.S. but for the countries we trade with. If they could only foresee the results today.

No manufacturing jobs to call our own, America is not only dependent on oil, the largest reserves in the Mid East, but virtually everything I notice in stores, both inexpensive and expensive merchandise is clearly labeled with that singular word, China, as being the manufacturer... with the occasional Cambodia or Viet Nam as much lesser manufacturers.

The initial reason for moving our factories to foreign countries served only one purpose - greater profits for not only the companies involved but greater profits for their shareholders.

This attitude accelerated into high speed with the Bush Administration... profit was the mantra at any cost as long as profit was made, even if the people of the country found it more and more difficult to make ends meet due to loss of what once was decent paying jobs in factory work that used to proudly serve not only our Nation but Nations throughout the world.

Factories began shutting their doors. From furniture to textiles, steel production (which once was the envy of the world) to Ship building... the list is long as it was nearly every product in the world this Nation made. But look around us and what does the majority of us see - foreign goods, mostly Chinese, which now controls the purse strings of the world economy, while the U.S. increasingly finds itself a poorer and poorer country with homes vacant throughout the lands, more and more of our citizens without health care much less a decent paying job.

The Presidency's of Clinton and Bush aided in the swift change of face for our country. NAFTA legalized joblessness in favor of factories ability to move out of our country leaving it's people jobless. Sure, this didn't happen overnight. It was gradual until Bush stepped in the people's office. Slashing taxes for the rich, encouraging the wealthy to operate without oversight in order to increase profit margins, in and of itself, most would agree is a good thing. After all that's why anyone goes into business - to make money.

It is this money making ability that fueled much of the economy during the Clinton/Bush years, even though many lost their once good paying jobs living on less and in many cases, living without health care.

Today's people who have decent jobs (and there are far fewer now than several years ago), certainly do not want to lose their jobs or their personal wealth. Who among us do?

But don't the majority of us, we American citizens, want to live in a society that treats us all fairly, honestly and worthy of our tasks. If there is only a limited amount of work for a large workforce seeking work, there will follow unrest. The gap between the haves and the have-not's is an unstable situation that can only be endured for a limited time before things blow up. If unemployment paychecks stop and the work is not available for those unemployed, do any of us think this is a healthy situation?

These difficult times we're facing right now can be overcome, and we don't necessarily need to be overly optimistic. We need to be positive that there is a need for action... alleviating unemployment and to do the many jobs that need to be done to go into the future before us. The days that we had with Clinton and even Bush that seemingly brought on great wealth and false prosperity should not be ideals that we long for but rather a future that is responsible to not only our citizens, but to our environment and our health. We also need to reduce drastically our need for a petroleum based economy which is a monopoly under the control of far too few corporations that are so far separated from the public that we are strangers to them as they are to us.

Have the money lenders in our country tightened their purse strings because the future is not of their liking? Is their attitude towards our President a way to keep our economy from attaining the absolute need for change rather than staying on the same tired course we have been on far too long?

[enough]
Last edited by mtmynd on July 12th, 2010, 11:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Non Sum

Post by Non Sum » July 10th, 2010, 4:13 pm

Hello Mtmynd,
Good to hear from you again, old friend. I hope you are well, and enjoying your summer chock full of foreign goods and services.

MT: foreign goods, mostly Chinese, which now controls the purse strings of the world economy, while the U.S. increasingly finds itself a poorer and poorer country with homes vacant throughout the lands, more and more of our citizens without health care much less a decent paying job.

NS: Fear not, the Chinese are still far from being the US’s economic equals; let alone “controlling the world economy.” [Not to discourage the great fun of hyperbolic expression ;^) ]

The US is a very large economy, and one of very few that could subsist quite well, though uncomfortably, without world trade. Imagine how it is for most nations, where, of necessity, they are dependent upon foreign trade. Does that mean that small nations, such as Denmark, suffer a lower living standard than we? Far from it. So, where is the relevance of this trade issue v. standard of living??

“Health Care”? Where is the problem there?
The vox populi screams at Obama: “We don’t want your lousy public health care!” So, who is to blame for none being provided, when none (apparently) is desired?

By the way, here’s a list of nations with public ‘universal’ health coverage. Please note how few are industrial dynamos:

“Afghanistan*, Argentina, Austria, Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, China, Cuba, Costa Rica, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iraq*, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Oman, Portugal, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Spain, Sweden, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Ukraine and the United Kingdom

*Universal health coverage provided by United States war funding”
http://www.gadling.com/2007/07/05/what- ... alth-care/

MT: The Presidency's of Clinton and Bush aided in the swift change of face for our country. NAFTA legalized joblessness in favor of factories ability to move out of our country leaving it's people jobless.

NS: Wow! Do you mean that, before NAFTA, it was illegal to take your factory and relocate it ex-US? What would they do? Put the CEO, and the Board of Directors, and the shareholders who voted for them, in prison?

MT: We also need to reduce drastically our need for a petroleum based economy which is a monopoly under the control of far too few corporations that are so far separated from the public that we are strangers to them as they are to us.

NS: I agree completely about the “need” to reduce our petro dependence, but what matter is it that a few thousand companies control that industry, rather than a hundred thousand? How would the costs (economic, environmental) differ if we hung socially with people that worked in the industry?

I blame the consumers/oil workers/electorate for what is happening in the Gulf, in the air over our cities, and for the oil wars. Who do you blame?

MT: Have the money lenders in our country tightened their purse strings because the future is not of their liking? Is their attitude towards our President a way to keep our economy from attaining the absolute need for change rather than staying on the same tired course we have been on far too long?

NS: Money goes where more can be made at the least cost. If US policy works against that, then money goes elsewhere--duh.
You can’t have it both ways, i.e. business wants the status quo/ business is leaving due to the status quo’s being not to its liking. Make a choice, which is it?

In hopes that we may keep this a purely intellectual debate,
NS National Shambles

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Arcadia
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Post by Arcadia » July 11th, 2010, 6:35 pm

oh yeah... des-industrialization...here it happened something similar from the last dictatorship crossing the nineties... and our president today is in China...! :)

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Artguy
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Post by Artguy » July 11th, 2010, 7:53 pm

perhaps it's a sign that we as North Americans are shifting our a society from a manufacturing base to a knowledge based culture, as abstract a notion as that seems. it really wasn't all that long ago that younguns were leaving the farm to seek there fortune in the new factories of industrialized America.

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mnaz
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Post by mnaz » July 12th, 2010, 2:05 pm

Non Sum wrote:NS: Fear not, the Chinese are still far from being the US’s economic equals; let alone “controlling the world economy.” [Not to discourage the great fun of hyperbolic expression ;^)
Yes, but the trend is there. At current respective growth rates, China takes the lead sometime next decade. And how much of that gdp is the wasteful military behemoth? And note that China is financing large amounts of our spiraling deficits. And note that our national and personal debt is off the charts. Again, is it all sustainable?
“Health Care”? Where is the problem there?
The vox populi screams at Obama: “We don’t want your lousy public health care!” So, who is to blame for none being provided, when none (apparently) is desired?
Vox populi? Heh. Well, maybe. I seem to recall some polls early last year that were actually in favor of a single-payer system, or at least a legitimate public option. So I wouldn't necessarily confuse the ranting of some rather misinformed (and/or planted by FAUX News) screeming meemies sent to disrupt town hall meetings, along with the actions of a Congress sufficiently bought and paid for by insurance co. interests as constituting: "we don't want your lousy public health care." Unless you cite some more specific evidence perhaps.
By the way, here’s a list of nations with public ‘universal’ health coverage. Please note how few are industrial dynamos:

“Afghanistan*, Argentina, Austria, Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, China, Cuba, Costa Rica, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iraq*, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Oman, Portugal, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Spain, Sweden, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Ukraine and the United Kingdom
Not sure what your point is here.
NS: Wow! Do you mean that, before NAFTA, it was illegal to take your factory and relocate it ex-US? What would they do? Put the CEO, and the Board of Directors, and the shareholders who voted for them, in prison?
NAFTA and the like made it much, much easier. To the considerable detriment of American jobs and workers. Right?
NS: I blame the consumers/oil workers/electorate for what is happening in the Gulf, in the air over our cities, and for the oil wars. Who do you blame?
So the corporations themselves are completely blameless? How do you figure?
NS: Money goes where more can be made at the least cost. If US policy works against that, then money goes elsewhere--duh.
You can’t have it both ways, i.e. business wants the status quo/ business is leaving due to the status quo’s being not to its liking. Make a choice, which is it?
Outsourcing to pad the bottom line even fatter does not necessarily imply that all of the money "goes elsewhere," if the corporation remains US-based. Or am I not understanding your point here?
Last edited by mnaz on July 13th, 2010, 3:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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hester_prynne
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Post by hester_prynne » July 12th, 2010, 10:11 pm

Indeed, Mnaz, single payor was what we wanted in multitudes, though some turned a deaf ear it seems...for fear of.....what? What the fuck are you so afraid of NS?? What the hell is so god damned scary about people having an equal right to health care??? Does that really hurt you? It seems so or you wouldn't be so carelessly twisting the truth. How does it hurt anyone? It hurts the crooks and takes away the arrogance of those who get off on having better health insurance than others, but that would be a remedy in my view. And don't give me a bunch a crap. Tell me how it hurts you in 10 words or LESS. Single payor healthcare would help so many more than it would "hurt". Can Republicans and or Libertarians even fathom the concept of helping more people rather than hurting more? It seems they kinda prefer hurting the majority of folks, which will backfire. When the majority has had enough, you little minoritys with big egos cuz you have a little money, will be toast.

Blame consumers for oil consumption???? Oh no you don't buddy. I'm not taking the bullshit bait here either, and i'm not going to let you get away with it either. There has been no other choice but oil for energy and that is a fact. Who killed the electric car? Oil usage has been manipulated onto us. That is a fact.

Republicans have quite a pattern for this kind of deceit. While in office, they spend like sailors on war and other crimes, then when a Dem takes over the republicans freakin blame their own out of control spending on the dems!!!! Just like they blame oil consumption on consumers, when they leave consumers no other choice!!!!!!GGGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRR!. NO DICE BUDDY! THIS BULLSHIT GAG GIG IS UP!!!!!!! Staredowns welcomed. :shock:

Indeed I am perturbed at NS's response post, perturbed at you NS. Your phony little greeting to MT, followed by all of your blind and out of touch and highly offensive rhetoric has gone too far. Have you no sensitivity to the people that your naysaying and lying to yourself have hurt? Alot of Americans are suffering due to greed, arrogance and outright manipulations of the system. Not to mention delusional thinking by some pretty well paid infotainers! Step right up!!!!
:roll:
Your post and people like Beck, Limbaugh, Fox news and Palin are all just as bad as the BP spill itself, maybe worse, and I say shame on all of you!
H 8) :x
"I am a victim of society, and, an entertainer"........DW

mtmynd
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Post by mtmynd » July 13th, 2010, 7:35 pm

An interesting article by Robert Reich in today's Huffington Post (7.13.10) -
We're back to the same ominous trend as before the Great Recession: a larger and larger share of total income going to the very top while the vast middle class continues to lose ground.

And as long as this trend continues, we can't get out of the shadow of the Great Recession. When most of the gains from economic growth go to a small sliver of Americans at the top, the rest don't have enough purchasing power to buy what the economy is capable of producing.

_______________

America's median wage, adjusted for inflation, has barely budged for decades. Between 2000 and 2007 it actually dropped. Under these circumstances the only way the middle class could boost its purchasing power was to borrow, as it did with gusto. As housing prices rose, Americans turned their homes into ATMs. But such borrowing has its limits. When the debt bubble finally burst, vast numbers of people couldn't pay their bills, and banks couldn't collect.

Each of America's two biggest economic downturns over the last century has followed the same pattern. Consider: in 1928 the richest 1 percent of Americans received 23.9 percent of the nation's total income. After that, the share going to the richest 1 percent steadily declined. New Deal reforms, followed by World War II, the GI Bill and the Great Society expanded the circle of prosperity. By the late 1970s the top 1 percent raked in only 8 to 9 percent of America's total annual income. But after that, inequality began to widen again, and income reconcentrated at the top. By 2007 the richest 1 percent were back to where they were in 1928--with 23.5 percent of the total.

complete article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-re ... 44465.html
These are startling figures... 23.5 of the total wealth in the hands of 1 percent. Who does the actual labor for this amount of wealth to end up in so few hands? What is it that makes these 1 percenters feel so privileged as "to have an oil field because their automobiles need gas?"

Certainly wealth becomes so large that it topples the pyramid upon which it was accumulated. Is that where the economy is once again headed?

Money is more than a game to be played with as if it were nothing more than play money and the stakes were a cardboard playing field. People's well being and security depend upon money as does the entire economies of Nations. When it is simply treated as a contest as to who will win the most, this trivializes money into a test field where the greediest buys the playing field to make even greater wealth without any regard to all those 99 percentile who are seen as losers in the game by the wealthiest.

In this day and age when information is more readily available for all to use, this extreme wealth can be viewed as nothing less than a game of win or lose rather than a means of survival beyond the ranks of poverty which can be alleviated by all the excess wealth there is.

The fear of re-distribution of wealth lies in the three words themselves... redistribution of wealth, which simply means the wealthy have bought and paid for their ability to hoard massive amounts of monies which is far beyond any responsible need anyone could possibly use within a lifetime. When the signal comes that their excess wealth denies others of a livelihood that all peoples should have thru their hard work, it does little good to use reason of any kind to assume those that do not have the same level of wealth are some how not worthy of living according to the U.S. promise of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Would the 1 percentile of our country live any less happy, receive less liberty or even forsake their lives if they were to agree that their wealth came from the very same country that assured all it's citizens "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?" To think otherwise would prove how greed can corrupt even the best of character any individual may have been blessed with in their lives.

A country that is unable or unwilling to show the greatest of love, compassion, to it's people will forever be doomed to be a country for the wealthy to do with as they please.
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sonofthesun
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slavery never ended...

Post by sonofthesun » August 5th, 2010, 2:36 am

shiny baubles have enabled the few to keep slavery alive and well while those enslaved feel good about themselves as they are able to purchase useless things to denote status within a contrived social order that doesnt even exist, fucking genius, or um...yeah. that is where we live. and our children must also live in it. its hard to fight a thing that doesnt really exist, when so many believe in it.
There is no empty space

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