Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situation

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jackofnightmares
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Re: Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situa

Post by jackofnightmares » November 30th, 2012, 12:37 pm

Yes Doreen but In the meantime you quote a website that perpetuates the "blood libel" charge against the jews.
You should really take Panta's advice on this.
Andy Newman, in an Op-ed in The Guardian, stated that "an article by Alison Weir... defends the unsubstantiated and implausible claims made by the Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet about Israeli soldiers murdering Palestinians in Gaza to harvest their organs. Weir implied, with no evidence, that Israel is at the centre of international organ smuggling. She then explicitly argued that the medieval "blood libel" – that Jews kill Christian children – has a basis in fact."[25]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_America ... te_note-25
please pardon me I have stared into the darkness too long

“When you look into the darkness—the darkness looks back into you.”
"Skepticism is the chastity of the intellect" George Santayana, The Idea of Christ in the Gospels

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Doreen Peri
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Re: Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situa

Post by Doreen Peri » November 30th, 2012, 12:49 pm

Sorry, I didn't mean to post a link to a biased website. In my opinion, there's blood on the hands of all the people who participate in the wars (on both sides). But I'm a pacifist, remember?

"Blood libel" is not a term I've ever heard of. And the quote you quoted doesn't really have anything to do with what I said.

"International organ smuggling"? Good grief! What a horrible accusation! I certainly didn't accuse anybody of that.

And... I always get my news stories from multiple sources.

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Re: Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situa

Post by stilltrucking » November 30th, 2012, 12:58 pm

The website If Americans Knew the person behind it is an American woman named
Alison Weir. The Blood LIbel is from a book called The Protocols of THe Elders of Zion that charges Jews murdered children for their blood to be used in making the passover matzos. Ron Paul has a link to the Elders of Zion on his website too. The book is a hoax, it has been debunked so many times. It was written by the Russian Secrete police under the Czar to justify the pogroms against the Jews.

Alison Weir not to be confused with the other Alison Weir who is a respected British historian

Time is on the side of the Palestinians. I hope Israel will survive too. But I dread the "Masada Complex"

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Re: Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situa

Post by stilltrucking » November 30th, 2012, 1:02 pm

sorry I was posting while you were.

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Doreen Peri
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Re: Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situa

Post by Doreen Peri » November 30th, 2012, 1:02 pm

OK, well, I got confused because I thought you were talking to me about what I posted in my previous post.

So, what you're saying is that the website I linked to is a biased website, correct? If that's so (as I said), I'm sorry I linked to it. I just thought it was an easy to understand history. If it reports lies, then I was wrong.

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Re: Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situa

Post by Doreen Peri » November 30th, 2012, 1:04 pm

Nothing like a little controversy to bring Studio8 back to life. This is the first conversation in months (probably over a year or more) that has gone on so many pages. Nice to see so many people posting. (sorry, off topic)

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Re: Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situa

Post by Arcadia » November 30th, 2012, 1:10 pm

and if Israel were not declared "a jewish state" then?... yeah, I know, most of what ifs are not too much useful ... :roll:

today´s news:

http://www.pagina12.com.ar/diario/elpai ... 11-30.html

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Re: Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situa

Post by stilltrucking » November 30th, 2012, 1:12 pm

I guess all websites are somewhat bias, I am just saying that it is dangerous to rip and run, I try to always check out a site a little bit, if there is a "about us" link I go there to get some "names" of the people behind it and Google them.

I started doing that when there were a lot of posts made about the 9/11 attacks on the WTC.
So many neo-nazi sites,
Alison Wier is a darling of the far right, David Duke and others, but she is not responsible for that I suppose.

I think wicki is a good site, at least the articles are peer reviewed.

somebody is posting while I am posting this I just got a warning :?
Yes Arcadia but
The Balfour Proclamation never mentioned a Jewish state, it was to be a Jewish Homeland, not sure what the difference is.

Maybe like one of the Native American reservations here. :?
Last edited by stilltrucking on November 30th, 2012, 1:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situa

Post by stilltrucking » November 30th, 2012, 1:19 pm

Nothing like a little controversy to bring Studio8 back to life. This is the first conversation in months (probably over a year or more) that has gone on so many pages. Nice to see so many people posting. (sorry, off topic)
yes it is good to see this discussion here Doreen. And it is civil because of who you are —thank you. I am doing my best even if I get the adrenalin shakes writing about it. So many family members gone but not forgotten during the holocaust.
Last edited by stilltrucking on November 30th, 2012, 1:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situa

Post by Artguy » November 30th, 2012, 1:22 pm

I bow to you dear Doreen.

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Re: Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situa

Post by stilltrucking » November 30th, 2012, 1:28 pm

I am thinking about Kerouac's Fellaheen, I think of the Palestinians as the fellaheen, I think time is on their side.
The Daily Beat: A Kerouac favorite word: fellaheen
http://thedailybeatblog.blogspot.com/20 ... aheen.html
I can only hope the Modern State of Israel will survive too, but I got a bad case of the Masada Metaphysical Homelessness Blues.

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Re: Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situa

Post by Arcadia » November 30th, 2012, 1:45 pm

I can only hope the Modern State of Israel will survive too, but I got a bad case of the Masada Metaphysical Homelessness Blues.

hey, it will survive, s-t, don´t worry... Palau and the Island Marshalls are states and it seems they are alive and kicking ...! :lol: (forget it, it was a bad joke...)

it would be great that we´ll be aware of interbeing in the planet all the time, not only in catastrophe times and don´t only caring for the geopolitical sensitivity of the moment, but I guess we only do what we can ... :)

The Balfour Proclamation never mentioned a Jewish state, it was to be a Jewish Homeland, not sure what the difference is. ... mmm... no idea!. I´ll google the Balfour proclamation as soon as I have time! :wink:

yes, it´s good to see old friends checking in into the studio and knowing that they are ok! :D

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Re: Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situa

Post by panta rhei » November 30th, 2012, 2:39 pm

yes to what artguy says - there needs to be a two-state solution. hard long way to figure out the necessary terms and solutions of that, though...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposals_ ... nian_state

and doreen, what jack is saying regarding the bias of most websites on that topic is exactly what i was trying to tell you. if you find some info that seems interesting to you, check out the "about" page and research on who's running the site, as jack suggests. the lopsidedness of that site 'if americans knew', for instance, that you linked to and where you got info from, was pretty obvious right from the first page already, and fast research on who's running it provided more info pretty quickly (s-t already gave you the link and details)....

like jack, i consider wiki a pretty good source, especially when you follow some of the discussion in the talk sections. there are many different people working on the articles which help balancing out a lot of the lopsided parts.

...someone (i can't remember who it was) in this thread said earlier, that s/he felt that as soon as a someone expressed any sympathy for the palestinians, s/he would be considered antimsemitic or at least be "against jews".

which i find an interesting remark since my experience is the complete opposite - it is so commonly pc and en vogue to bristle at israel and regard the palestinians as mere victims, that any attempt to balance out and adjust some of the uninformed opinions by providing some additional info is considered right-wing and imperialistic and demagogic... or just being ignored.

which is a huge part of the problem in any discussion about this topic - most people choose to have an opinion about it, but do not bother to get the basic info about it, let alone take on the effort to get a balanced picture by gathering info from various sides to get beyond the traps of bias...

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Doreen Peri
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Re: Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situa

Post by Doreen Peri » November 30th, 2012, 3:18 pm

I DID check out the ABOUT page. I always do, Panta.

I'm sorry if this disappoints anyone, and this definitely DOES NOT make me anti-Israel or anti-semetic, but I don't think the US should be supporting Israel NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO. Israel, apparently can do no wrong in the eyes of the US. I think that's wrong.

I'm not prejudiced against any people for any reasons.

Personally, my heritage comes from the Middle East. My grandfather was born in Lebanon. My grandmother was born in Greece. I went to my grandmother's church, a Greek Orthodox Church. I was brought up as a Christian.

This, however, has nothing whatsoever to do with my political leanings.

My political leanings are PACIFIST. People may call that naive. I call it evolutionarily advanced. This isn't ego kicking in. I"m only saying that I believe the human race can evolve to be peaceful and until we BELIEVE we can be peaceful, it will will never happen. So, I decide to BELIEVE it. The evolution of the human race toward being peaceful non-violent people will happen one individual at a time.

I believe all human beings are created equal. I don't believe in war. I believe all disputes can be settled non-violently.

I don't care for and will never support the discrimination against ANY people no matter their "race", origin, religious beliefs, or any other reason.

I put "race" in quotation marks because race is a social construct. We're all the same. We may have evolved differently in our appearance (color of skin, color eyes, etc) due to where our ancestors are located. This evolution is based on adaptations to weather, environment, etc., and is primarily for survival purposes of the species. The species is the HUMAN RACE. That's the ONLY race.

All people deserve a home, a place where they belong. The Palestinians have been displaced. They have been systematically ousted from their own homes. This should not be tolerated.

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Re: Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situa

Post by Doreen Peri » November 30th, 2012, 3:26 pm

PS... You're right. I'm one of those people who haven't done an extensive amount of research on the topic and the history. I grew up reading about it every day in the newspapers, though. The reporting has all been convoluted and distorted.

Despite my admitted ignorance regarding the details, I stand by my assessment that the Palestinians used to have a homeland and now they don't. I've certainly done enough research to know THIS much. They USED to have homes. They have been ousted from their homes. They are displaced people. This is not right. It's wrong.

I realize there are no total black and whites and that there are shades of grey in every matter and that this situation is extremely complicated. However right and wrong is easy to determine in regards to a group of people who have been kicked out of their own homes. That's just plain wrong. I know that much.

I can be accurately called ignorant regarding minute details of the history of the situation. I AM ignorant of all of it. It hasn't been my life's work to study it. I've been selfishly busy trying to survive for almost 6 decades. I guess I could have chosen to study world history rather than art and poetry and literature and dance, but I didn't. I chose what I loved to do.

Maybe in my next life, I'll have more time.

I'll repeat that both sides who have engaged in violence are WRONG. Both sides have blood on their hands. I believe this because I believe war is wrong. Violence is wrong. I'm a pacifist. I can't help it. I stand by my ideals.

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