Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situation

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Doreen Peri
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Re: Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situa

Post by Doreen Peri » November 30th, 2012, 8:29 pm

Artguy said:
Doreen, not just the US arming Israel, but countries with sophisticated armaments have to stop selling arms to other countries to show their muscle. Russia, China, U.S. are all guilty.
OK, thanks! Then they ALL need to stop arming Israel! All of them.

‪Atehequa‬ said:
Actually I was pondering upon starting a thread comparing politicians, propagandists and shills to television evangelical preachers, carnival barkers and timeshare salesmen.
Sounds like it would be a great thread! ;)

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Re: Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situa

Post by Artguy » December 1st, 2012, 10:27 am

How about sanctions to both till theyy play nice in the sandbox? No pun intended

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Re: Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situa

Post by Arcadia » December 1st, 2012, 2:34 pm

How about sanctions to both till theyy play nice in the sandbox? No pun intended yeah ... at moments it reminds me to a sort of neverending school conflict ... :shock:

each time people that don´t belong to my country starts speaking with a more or less professoral tone about my country and its conflicts something as a bit angry, incredulous and suspicious wave arises in me (first reaction), but with the necessary distance, I always find somehow interesting to consider what they are saying until my own day by day reality makes me think in something else ... :) I guess people in Israel and in Palestine or whatever may feel the same, so I´ll give them a rest for a while! :wink:

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Re: Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situa

Post by Artguy » December 1st, 2012, 6:30 pm

Don't forget the actions of this conflict hold the rest of us in limbo....Diplomatic efforts have been going on fo decades ans where does it stanD? If both factions are tired of the rest aioa the world telling themhow to achieve an accord....THEN ACHIEVE AN ACCORD...I DON'T CARE WHO'S GOD IS BETTER THAN THE OTHERS GET IT FIXED SO WE CAN SEE THE MIDDLE EAST AS HUMAN VICTORY NOT A HUMAN MESS, i DON'T CARE IF HE OR SHE SAID WHAT OR NOTHING and crucified someone or not WE ARE TIRED OF IT ALL. LOOK AT TURKEY AND LEBANON THAT HAVE PEOPLE OF DIFFERENR BELIEFS LIVING IN RELATIVE PEACE....GET OVER YOUR SELVES

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Re: Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situa

Post by panta rhei » December 1st, 2012, 7:52 pm

kurt - how does it hold the rest of us in limbo? how does it affect you and me other than by making us think and talk about it?

and also, as i've said before, in my opinion this conflict is not about god but about identity and territory. for some, religion is a part of their identity - for others, it isn't.

the struggle to be safe and to be in control about one's own life: all this is nurtured by emotions and human qualities and flaws on both sides and by the needs of those involved...

and for most of those involved, it has become simply a matter of survival and of being self-determined and safe.

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Re: Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situa

Post by Doreen Peri » December 1st, 2012, 8:14 pm

I'm not trying to answer for Kurt, of course. He can answer himself. I just thought about your question, Panta, and decided to present my thoughts. In my opinion, the situation in the MIddle East definitely does affect the entire world.

It affects the world economy. It affects the taxes paid by individuals in major countries all over the world, for instance. It affects the values of currency. It also affects the the military for many countries which are invested in the war process and the prices paid to fund the military in other countries as well as the costs for countries who are supplying weapons.

In addition, it affects the price of oil and gas for people all over the world (don't ask me how exactly because I'm no economist, but if you do a google search, you can find many articles written about this topic by people more knowledgeable than I am about the world economy and oil.)

The crises and continual battles, the seemingly never-ending wars, affect the stability and consciousness of people all over the world. It makes people (no matter where they live) fearful and anxious that the violence will spread and worst of all, that the projected religious "last battle" will actually take place.

I don't remember who said it but I think this is a great statement. "World War 111 will be fought with sticks and stones." (Maybe s/he said World War 1V, I'm not sure).

People are afraid, not only the people who live in the region. The fear has been promoted by propaganda to the rest of the world for many years. The talk of nuclear war continues. The ongoing violent Middle East wars have been used by the propagandists to instill fear in people all over the world.

I find it hard to believe that differing religious beliefs are not a central, core issue.

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Re: Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situa

Post by Artguy » December 1st, 2012, 11:18 pm

Exactly Doreen, it's not just between them it's between all of us.

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Re: Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situa

Post by Atehequa » December 2nd, 2012, 8:07 am

Back to the comparison -

Last winter was not all that cold, but I'm wondering if there is another big freeze will the Cheyenne River Reservation Lakota be neglected by the federal government like they were back in January 2010 ?

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Re: Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situa

Post by Artguy » December 2nd, 2012, 1:16 pm

Will the arctict environment of the inuit continue to be exploited because there is money to be made? One tanker breaks up in the arctic ocean and it's all over....BOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!!

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Re: Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situa

Post by panta rhei » December 2nd, 2012, 1:36 pm

Doreen Peri wrote:I'm not trying to answer for Kurt, of course. He can answer himself. I just thought about your question, Panta, and decided to present my thoughts. In my opinion, the situation in the MIddle East definitely does affect the entire world.
ok, so what you are saying, basically, is that the effects the israeli-palestinian conflict has on those of us who are not directly involved, are about a) money and b) emotions/fear.

as for a) - yes, in an economically cross-linked world like ours, most things happening somewhere effect other things somewhere else, not only the conflicts in the middle east. i doubt, though, that your and my life standard would significantly change (or change at all) whether the conflict we are talking about stopped or went on, and i think it is pretty degrading for those existentially involved in the conflict to mention oil prices and taxes (which are issues that are influenced by thousands of other factors, as well), as if this was what mattered, as if this was what i was about...

about b) - i think we are probably making different experiences about this. i don't see how the israeli-palestinian conflict affects "the stability and consciousness of people all over the world" and how it "makes people (no matter where they live) fearful and anxious". all this applies to those involved, just as it does apply for anyone involved in any conflict or war, but how does it apply to you and me and people all over the world???
you also say that "he ongoing violent middle east wars have been used by the propagandists to instill fear in people all over the world" - again, i am not making this experience. my experience is getting lots of info about it and news about it (which both may bear a certain bias towards the one or the other side, but this only helps to get a rounder picture), but why would there be "propaganda" about it in your country or mine and why would the media want to instill fear about it?? what would be the use of it??? it wouldn't even make sense.
though if this is your experience, it may be different over there than it is here - i don't know.

also, this religious last battle or armageddon that you mention (and that has been mentioned before by others on this thread) - i never ever have heard this used as an official or public argument or explanation or cause or justification for any part of the conflict around here, so it seems weird to bring this up at all. you may find people believing in that if you visited respective sited on the internet, sure, but you may find just about anything weird out there - but it's nothing that's mentioned on tv or newspapers and nothing anyone serious would ever mention or even consider to be an argument at all...

actually, the whole b)-part seems really far-fetched to me... as if we were talking about a totally different issue! so i think we either are, or we are making totally different experiences in that respect...

hm.

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Re: Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situa

Post by still.trucking » December 2nd, 2012, 4:49 pm

please pardon off topic remarks,

oh panta rhei
not to give any invidious honors
but I just deleted this from a reply to justwalt on the poetry board
I would like to post it here in homage to your last post.
and ramble

About ten years ago I had the good fortune to stumble on a website called litkicks. I was awed by the enlightened beings there who were so far ahead of me on this walk.
probably none more than panta rhei(not an invidious honor I hope)
but so many others

I think I remember you too from that site

I was very sad when I got barred for life from that site, and I was happy grateful when Doreen and Clay started up studio eight.

i appologize for the ramble
a very interesting poem I enjoyed thinking on it very much 8)
I read and feed off the poets here
a bottom feeder perhaps but even so
http://studioeight.tv/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24889
"Natural selection, as it has operated in human history, favors not only the clever but the murderous." Barbara Ehrenreich

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Doreen Peri
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Re: Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situa

Post by Doreen Peri » December 2nd, 2012, 5:32 pm

Just my own thoughts, Panta. Not "an official or public argument or explanation or cause or justification for any part of the conflict". Maybe my thoughts are far-fetched. I don't know. I'm really not trying to present an argument. I'm only presenting my thoughts.

In the US, the so-called "news" sources (propagandists) spread fear continuously.

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Re: Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situa

Post by Atehequa » December 2nd, 2012, 5:38 pm

judih wrote: Let's shift location, shall we?
I hear there's a vacant few booths by the door. hopefully it won't be too drafty.

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Re: Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situa

Post by Atehequa » December 2nd, 2012, 5:51 pm

Doreen Peri wrote: It's extremely disturbing.
Indeed, but it gets people talking. Allows messages to be conveyed. Not really a comparison. Just flint steel and tinder along with several moths attracted by the light.

I completely get it, and probably did from the get go .

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Re: Comparing Middle East situation to Native American situa

Post by Doreen Peri » December 2nd, 2012, 6:02 pm

Atehequa wrote:
Doreen Peri wrote: It's extremely disturbing.
Indeed, but it gets people talking. Allows messages to be conveyed. Not really a comparison. Just flint steel and tinder along with several moths attracted by the light.

I completely get it, and probably did from the get go .
OK. Let's get back to the comparison. I already posted how I thought the two situations were similar. You've also posted a little about how you think they're similar. Can you elaborate on the similarities more? (If you'd like to, of course). Do you think the title to this break-off thread is an appropriate title or do you think it should have had another title? :)

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