The Shutdown, I'm wondering ...

Go ahead. Talk about it.
User avatar
whimsicaldeb
Posts: 882
Joined: November 3rd, 2004, 4:53 pm
Location: Northern California, USA
Contact:

The Shutdown, I'm wondering ...

Post by whimsicaldeb » October 2nd, 2013, 11:58 am

I'm wondering ... I'm feeling uneasy... and I'd like feed back...

I'm wondering if this shut down doesn't have more to do with being able to bypass federal regulations than anything to do with The Affordable Care Act.

When I look down the list of agencies that closed in the shut down:
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2013/09/ ... le_sidebar

And I see what agencies are close, or not functioning such as:

Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau (Department of Treasury)
Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation Board
Commodity Futures Trading Commission
Consumer Product Safety Commission
Environmental Protection Agency
Federal Energy Regulatory Commission
Federal Mine Safety and Health Review Commission
Federal Trade Commission
Occupational Safety and Health Review Commission
Office of Government Ethics

etc...
I get a bad feeling.

Basically, every watch dog agency has been shut down. So, if you were big business hiding behind the tea party (as Harry Reid says = http://cnsnews.com/news/article/terence ... estroy-our) and you wanted to get something past any of these agency, now would seem to be the time to do it. Under the guise of the Tea Party standing up to "Obama care."


Maybe the latest episode of Blacklist (http://www.nbc.com/the-blacklist/?__sou ... t_MediaAds) has gotten to me ... about hiding things in plain sight. In the show it was assassinations under the guise of accidents, with a lot of innocent people as collateral.

I'm uneasy. This feels like the same type of thing to me.

Thoughts?

User avatar
stilltrucking
Posts: 19930
Joined: October 24th, 2004, 12:29 pm
Location: Oz or somepace like Kansas

Re: The Shutdown, I'm wondering ...

Post by stilltrucking » October 2nd, 2013, 12:32 pm

I don't wonder much anymore. Maybe I have settled my accounts with political reality. I read that this all started with Goldwater's defeat in 1964. The people pulling the puppet strings have spent billions on think tanks and Astroturf™ grassroots organizations, over the past fifty years. Money well spent.
They got a laundry list of what they want done and undone, So what you say is probably true

I guess this falls under the general heading of no sh*t sherlock. :oops:


Oh yes keep on keeping on
keep on wondering :wink:
don't mind me deb
I am already bored with the story
I blame it on the decadent art. Lets all Pass the ammunition and praise the culture wars.

User avatar
whimsicaldeb
Posts: 882
Joined: November 3rd, 2004, 4:53 pm
Location: Northern California, USA
Contact:

Re: The Shutdown, I'm wondering ...

Post by whimsicaldeb » October 2nd, 2013, 6:38 pm

stilltrucking wrote:...They got a laundry list of what they want done and undone, So what you say is probably true.
I sure as hell hope that what I'm saying/thinking is not true.
But I can't help but think of illusionists and con artists (pick pockets?) ...
While they have you looking in one direction, they're busy manipulating things in the other direction.

That they have (have had for some time) a laundry list of what they want done and undone is true. And at the top of that list is deregulation in all it's forms.

Thank you for you thoughts.

User avatar
stilltrucking
Posts: 19930
Joined: October 24th, 2004, 12:29 pm
Location: Oz or somepace like Kansas

Re: The Shutdown, I'm wondering ...

Post by stilltrucking » October 2nd, 2013, 9:39 pm

whimsical deb wrote:
Thank you for you thoughts.
Geez Deb don't encourage me :wink:
"a penny for my thoughts would not tax my mind at all"

"History, read it and weep."

"If you go to the 1940s, Nazi Germany," Cruz said. "Look, we saw in Britain, Neville Chamberlain, who told the British people, 'Accept the Nazis. Yes, they'll dominate the continent of Europe but that's not our problem. Let's appease them. Why? Because it can't be done. We can't possibly stand against them.'"

There it is, we must not appease the Nazi nigger in the white house. Better to shut it down.


The Tea Party started with seed money from those same puppet masters. Cruz was a Tea Party candidate. They say he will run for president in 2016. I can hardly wait to see what wonderful tricks he has up his sleeve.

User avatar
stilltrucking
Posts: 19930
Joined: October 24th, 2004, 12:29 pm
Location: Oz or somepace like Kansas

Re: The Shutdown, I'm wondering ...

Post by stilltrucking » October 3rd, 2013, 2:13 pm

Maybe Cruz won't be president in 2016. I thought Rick Perry was going to be a shoe in 2012. I thought McCain was going to walk away with it in 2008. You know ever since the election of 2004 I ain't been right about anything come to think of it.
Politico reports:


Ted Cruz faced a barrage of hostile questions Wednesday from angry GOP senators, who lashed the Texas tea party freshman for helping prompt a government shutdown crisis without a strategy to end it.

User avatar
whimsicaldeb
Posts: 882
Joined: November 3rd, 2004, 4:53 pm
Location: Northern California, USA
Contact:

Re: The Shutdown, I'm wondering ...

Post by whimsicaldeb » October 3rd, 2013, 9:18 pm

stilltrucking wrote:whimsical deb wrote:
Thank you for you thoughts.
Geez Deb don't encourage me :wink:
"a penny for my thoughts would not tax my mind at all"
~chuckling~
Looks like I'm getting more than my money's worth.


still trucking wrote:"If you go to the 1940s, Nazi Germany," Cruz said. "Look, we saw in Britain, Neville Chamberlain, who told the British people, 'Accept the Nazis. Yes, they'll dominate the continent of Europe but that's not our problem. Let's appease them. Why? Because it can't be done. We can't possibly stand against them.'"

still trucking wrote:There it is, we must not appease the Nazi nigger in the white house. Better to shut it down.
This reminds me of Andrew Sullivan's OpEd piece:
http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/10/ ... ion-party/
When ideologies become as calcified, as cocooned and as extremist as those galvanizing the GOP, the American system of government cannot work. But I fear this nullification of the last two elections is a deliberate attempt to ensure that the American system of government as we have known it cannot work. It cannot, must not work, in the mindset of these radicals, because they simply do not accept the legitimacy of a President and Congress of the opposing party. The GOP does not regard the president as merely wrong – but as illegitimate. Not misguided – illegitimate. This is not about ending Obamacare as such (although that is a preliminary scalp); it is about nullifying this presidency, the way the GOP attempted to nullify the last Democratic presidency by impeachment.

Except this time, of course, we cannot deny that race too is an added factor to the fathomless sense of entitlement felt among the GOP far right. You saw it in birtherism; in the Southern GOP’s constant outrageous claims of Obama’s alleged treason and alliance with Islamist enemies; in providing zero votes for a stimulus that was the only thing that prevented a global depression of far worse proportions; in the endless race-baiting from Fox News and the talk radio right. And in this racially-charged atmosphere, providing access to private healthcare insurance to the working poor is obviously the point of no return.
<...>
I regard this development as one of the more insidious and anti-constitutional acts of racist vandalism against the American republic in my adult lifetime. Those who keep talking as if there are two sides to this, when there are not, are as much a part of the vandalism as Ted Cruz. Obama has played punctiliously by the constitutional rules – two elections, one court case – while the GOP has decided that the rules are for dummies and suckers, and throws over the board game as soon as it looks as if it is going to lose by the rules as they have always applied.

still trucking wrote:The Tea Party started with seed money from those same puppet masters. Cruz was a Tea Party candidate. They say he will run for president in 2016. I can hardly wait to see what wonderful tricks he has up his sleeve.
Like Andrew Sullivan, I'm glad President Obama is standing strong against Cruz and his party's attempted tyranny.
Last edited by whimsicaldeb on October 3rd, 2013, 9:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
whimsicaldeb
Posts: 882
Joined: November 3rd, 2004, 4:53 pm
Location: Northern California, USA
Contact:

Re: The Shutdown, I'm wondering ...

Post by whimsicaldeb » October 3rd, 2013, 9:20 pm

stilltrucking wrote:Maybe Cruz won't be president in 2016. I thought Rick Perry was going to be a shoe in 2012. I thought McCain was going to walk away with it in 2008. You know ever since the election of 2004 I ain't been right about anything come to think of it.
Politico reports:


Ted Cruz faced a barrage of hostile questions Wednesday from angry GOP senators, who lashed the Texas tea party freshman for helping prompt a government shutdown crisis without a strategy to end it.
Oh, I'm sooo glad to read that! About f*ing time. It would hold more weight (imo) if they had been brave enough to do this BEFORE the shutdown instead of after but .... it is what it is. Better late than never (I suppose).

Steve Plonk
Posts: 2414
Joined: December 12th, 2009, 4:48 pm

Re: The Shutdown, I'm wondering ...

Post by Steve Plonk » October 4th, 2013, 11:29 am

Whimsicaldeb, Yes, I, too, am worried about the same things you are...Having seen the same thing back in 1995. Hopefully, the American public will put the blame squarely where it belongs:
on the "tea party" republicans & the Speaker of the House, who has gone along with it.

The republican party, itself, has been hijacked by its ultra right wing nut branch.
I've heard republicans talking about kicking the tea party members out of the party.

Hopefully, nothing really awful will happen during the shutdown. All the watchdog agencies
are needed to keep the economy going safely. The FDA, OSHA, & the Environmental Protection Agency are all important. It seems that the President, in this instance, has the right to declare a "national economic emergency" & by-pass the House of Representatives to fund the budget.

If the shutdown continues through the "debt ceiling" arguments, I believe the executive branch most definitely has a right to fund the government & raise the ceiling in conjunction with the Federal Reserve.
After all, the US Senate, in this peculiar case, has gone along with funding the government & is the "higher" legislative body. In this peculiar case, I feel the US House has to be "overruled". What do you think? The executive branch has a right to declare a national
economic emergency like FDR did during the Depression. I think that's a fact. 8)

User avatar
whimsicaldeb
Posts: 882
Joined: November 3rd, 2004, 4:53 pm
Location: Northern California, USA
Contact:

Re: The Shutdown, I'm wondering ...

Post by whimsicaldeb » October 4th, 2013, 5:35 pm

Steve Plonk wrote:If the shutdown continues through the "debt ceiling" arguments, I believe the executive branch most definitely has a right to fund the government & raise the ceiling in conjunction with the Federal Reserve.
After all, the US Senate, in this peculiar case, has gone along with funding the government & is the "higher" legislative body. In this peculiar case, I feel the US House has to be "overruled". What do you think? The executive branch has a right to declare a national
economic emergency like FDR did during the Depression. I think that's a fact. 8)
I had to look that up ... found this on wiki:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_the_presi ... _the_house

It's not very well written, and it's circumspect. In addition, the FDR Executive Order 9066 that this is referencing as precedence was a military action "uthorizing the Secretary of War to prescribe certain areas as military zones. Eventually, EO 9066 cleared the way for the deportation of Japanese Americans to internment camps. The executive order was spurred by a combination of war hysteria and reactions to the Niihau Incident."
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_9066

So ... it's possible, but ...

As of today, there is also this
"House Democrats Unveil Discharge Petition To Force End To Shutdown"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/0 ... ref=topbar
but it's another long shot.

User avatar
Arcadia
Posts: 7828
Joined: August 22nd, 2004, 6:20 pm
Location: Rosario

Re: The Shutdown, I'm wondering ...

Post by Arcadia » October 4th, 2013, 7:44 pm

no idea, really Deb ... :shock: from here it sounds like an extreme fraction republican boicot but against what ..? :Obama health programm or Obama Syria´s war denial/delay or whatever... ? (both options are very visible, it´s posible that they are not the cause at least directly... :idea: ). It reminded me somehow what happened to Paraguay lately but I guess in these lands, (for diferent causes long way to tell) we are more prone that the blood reach the river easily ... :roll: Let´s listen "We can work it out" three times! :wink:

Steve Plonk
Posts: 2414
Joined: December 12th, 2009, 4:48 pm

Re: The Shutdown, I'm wondering ...

Post by Steve Plonk » October 4th, 2013, 8:06 pm

Whimsicaldeb, I would say that the so called "Discharge Petition" is the Democrats best bet
to get the budget through & the debt ceiling raised. I read your link below:
As of today, there is also this
"House Democrats Unveil Discharge Petition To Force End To Shutdown"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/0 ... ref=topbar
but it's another long shot.

User avatar
Arcadia
Posts: 7828
Joined: August 22nd, 2004, 6:20 pm
Location: Rosario

Re: The Shutdown, I'm wondering ...

Post by Arcadia » October 5th, 2013, 9:00 am

here´s a today´s article about the shutdown in pagina12 ... the autor also talks about our tripartito system of health ... (wich is far away from perfect but it seems it´s the way "que pudimos conseguir" till the momento ... :roll: ):

http://www.pagina12.com.ar/diario/socie ... 10-05.html

User avatar
stilltrucking
Posts: 19930
Joined: October 24th, 2004, 12:29 pm
Location: Oz or somepace like Kansas

Re: The Shutdown, I'm wondering ...

Post by stilltrucking » October 5th, 2013, 10:55 am

Somebody here called it "The Seinfeld Shut Down" alluding to the "Show About Nothing" episode from the TV show.
But I think it alludes more to Macbeth.
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
What happened in Argentina could happen here if demagogue's like Ted Cruz have their way.


He is a strutting shadow I know, but politics here are really fubar.
Has a lot to do with how our electorial districts are Gerrymandered f.u.b.a.r.

the chica :) in the hat wrote:
here´s a today´s article about the shutdown in pagina12 ... the autor also talks about our tripartito system of health ... (wich is far away from perfect but it seems it´s the way "que pudimos conseguir" till the momento ... :roll: ):
I try to follow the news from Argentina very closely these days. Maybe it's because I have a guilty conscience as a North American who's government had their bloody fingerprints on the murderous atrocities of the 1970's. Not just in Argentina but all over south America .coup d'état.

I go off on such a long digression when posting something that has to do with our pop culture here that may mean nothing to you over there.
Attachments
hatbanner.jpg
Last edited by stilltrucking on October 5th, 2013, 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
zero_hero
Posts: 394
Joined: January 24th, 2010, 12:09 pm
Location: stilltrucking's vanity

Re: The Shutdown, I'm wondering ...

Post by zero_hero » October 5th, 2013, 4:30 pm

RE: Lucy's poem coup d'état :oops:

For what it is worth I did not mean to give out invidious honors, or maybe they were insidious. Who knows :?: Only the shadow do 8)

I am going to back edit the post.
The_Shadow-3.jpg
The_Shadow-3.jpg (19.81 KiB) Viewed 1834 times
Free Rice

"the lesson is... if you want it? keep a copy of it." Doreen Peri

avatar

User avatar
whimsicaldeb
Posts: 882
Joined: November 3rd, 2004, 4:53 pm
Location: Northern California, USA
Contact:

Re: The Shutdown, I'm wondering ...

Post by whimsicaldeb » October 5th, 2013, 5:26 pm

Arcadia wrote:here´s a today´s article about the shutdown in pagina12 ... the autor also talks about our tripartito system of health ... (wich is far away from perfect but it seems it´s the way "que pudimos conseguir" till the momento ... :roll: ):

http://www.pagina12.com.ar/diario/socie ... 10-05.html
Thank you for that article Arcadia. It hit the cause of things exactly in it's first paragraph:
In the U.S., their rulers assumed, for a long time, that health services must be goods. It is the only country in the Americas which did not include health as a right. Government intervention was always considered as distorting and citizens must directly take financial risks involving disease or opt for medical insurance.

Original text: En los EE.UU., sus gobernantes asumieron, desde hace mucho tiempo, que los servicios de salud deben ser mercancías. Se trata del único país de América que no incluyó a la salud como un derecho. La intervención del gobierno siempre fue considerada como distorsiva y los ciudadanos deben asumir de forma directa los riesgos financieros que implican la enfermedad u optar por contratar un seguro médico.
That's correct. In the US, unlike your country and many (most?) others ... heath services are considered "goods" aka a consumer product, rather than a right. So those with the most money get the best health care, because they can afford and then things trickle down from there ... to the very bottom of the social/economical level where people have done.

What you have in your country ... we are fighting to get for our county and people now as well:
What is the issue in Argentina, a country developing? The Constitution states that access to health care is a human right (Art. 75, Inc. 22). The health system in our country is threefold: public health, social security and private medicine provide benefits to the 40 million inhabitants of the Argentine territory. Even the 25,871 law extends access to health care to all aliens who need it, regardless of their immigration status.

Original text: ¿Cómo es la cuestión en la Argentina, un país en vías de desarrollo? La Constitución Nacional establece que el acceso a la atención de la salud es un derecho humano (Art. 75, Inc. 22). El sistema de salud en nuestro país es tripartito: la salud pública, la seguridad social y la medicina privada brindan prestaciones a los 40 millones de habitantes del territorio argentino. Incluso, la ley 25.871 hace extensivo el acceso a la atención de la salud a todos los extranjeros que lo requieran, cualquiera sea su situación migratoria.
The Affordable Care Act is a Law, that was legally passed through the Senate & House and upheld by our Supreme court. Nothing was pulled over anyone's eyes, or shoved down their throats.

I've found that this Anais Nin's quote is true: "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." It's called projection ... so are they (Tea Party Republican's) blaming us for what they, themselves are actually doing?

Is is that all this bickering is a smoke screen to cover up something else they're planning behind the scenes. Something to do with either bypassing, or disbanding various forms of deregulation meant to protect the public. ?

I don't know.
I am, I freely admit, suspicious of their motives. Maybe it really is just pent up rage and frustration of an incoming change that they truly dislike. In all honesty, I truly hope that's all it is. But I've been fooled by them in the past ... "Once burned, twice shy."
Arcadia wrote: Let´s listen "We can work it out" three times! :wink:
Love it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jlXnQEgbuw

:D

Post Reply

Return to “General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest