Studio8 - Uniting the Arts

I heard this as a party the other night. It was a 15 year old saying it, and oh yeah, I've heard this a bazillion times and in many variations:

"I have a theory that people shouldn't live past the age of 40."

This was just the first time I agreed.

I figure the human body, minus medicine, sophisticated dentistry and fancy nutritional delivery systems (I mean daily multivitamins, lol) wasn't designed to live very long. I'm 45 and this is supposed to be about the end for me. Some people could live to 50 or 60 I suppose. Most people wouldn't live that far past 40 if we didn't have immunizations and other devices to keep us alive.

So .... what about our minds? How much can our minds accept before they decided they've had enough and give out? I figure most of us have had enough mentally and emotionally when we hit 50. Our brains are filled up.

I suppose that if you reached that age and your mind is still excited and you don't have a lot of stress to counterbalance it, you should keep on living.

But what if you're tapped out? You've reached the age of maximum capacity and you're tapped out. Are you weird? No, you're normal. If you don't want to keep on living, then you're just paying attention to biology. It's WEIRD that people live into their 70s and 80s and 90s. That's a totally NEW thing.

What if you decide you've had enough and you don't want to do that? Aren't you just obeying a natural time-clock?

To be happy past 40 or 50 or so may be, perhaps, the ODD thing, not being unhappy at those ages ....

40, man i hope i'm coftorble with stability then other wise i feel the same way certainly when you get to the point where things aren't working then whats the point?

I figure the human body, minus medicine, sophisticated dentistry and fancy nutritional delivery systems (I mean daily multivitamins, lol) wasn't designed to live very long

"Three score years and ten" was an expression coined in ancient times. There's nothing new about living to be seventy or eighty. Often people living frugal lives in very unsophisticated places, where medicine and dentistry barely exist, live very long lives. Wanting to continue living has more to do with contentment and happiness than how old you are. The most common cause of death for young males in the UK is now suicide. We are losing something profoundly important in western society whilst pursuing materialism. The instantaneous lifestyle is a killer. Faster and faster to nowhere in particular. I prefer slowly slowly to where I want to go. I am now in my fifties and don't feel much differently to when I was ten. I have no answers! Death will happen soon enough.

Dear Kat:

This is me, your old acquaintance and friend, speaking from my new arrival at the age of 60.

A few quick observations:

1. 40 IS 70 to a 15-year-old.

2. Physical soundness is the strongest argument for dying at 40.

3. I have had/have four fatal illnesses: heart attack, cancer, pernicious anemia and diabetes. Some I feel relatively safe from at the moment, but they are out there, among the leaves, moving back and forth on their soft paws. Living through them and feeling still lucid upstairs is one of the triumphs of my life. Getting to sixty is climbing Everest to me.

4. #3 being given, I move to the mental side of things. Since mental, to me, always means art, as it has since I was fifteen, busily drawing and painting, I must credit this little ridge ( of 60 years) I have just reached as salubrious.

I can think better than ever. Yes, sometimes I stumble over who starred in a 1937 film, or who Nietzsche's translator was in those versions of "Zarathustra" I read when I was 20, but those are minor matters compared to:

THE POWER OF MAKING.

I can sort, with some scintilla of maturity, through my failures now, better than ever. What I mean is, when I approach the page with a brush, pen or pencil, I know better what NOT to do, what not to attempt. My vanity is under better control. I'm not trying to prove to anyone ( my father, or an artist I admire) that I can do such-and-such, have mastered some impressive technique.

This is greatly liberating, like learning not to hate your boss.

So, being a slow starter and a slow learner, like Thomas Pynchon ( his autobiographical essay, the only one, to my knowledge, of any length past a short comment, is called "Slow Learner."), being an underachiever, and not "proud of it" like Bart Simpson, but stuck with it, like Matt Groening ( whose "mountain -of-money", Stephen King-like "success" I would not compare my life's narrow career to . . . though we were both born in Oregon . . .)

http://www.nndb.com/people/361/000025286/


Being a slow starter and learner, I say, and totally without ambition and the ability to wax bold as a self-publicist, sixty has treated me very well.

Many great artists have died young, as we all know-- Keats at 26, Shelley at 30, Byron at 36, just to mention a circle of acquaintances.

But 60 suits me fine, though it's not for everyone.

I have friends my age who grouse about, wanting more. But George Lucas, David Grisman, Bill Clinton and others my age seem to have done all right for themselves.

I thought of a scientific index to categorize Monica Lewinsky's famous "drive", by the way, a quality and a word frequently used by associates of Prez WJC to praise her ambition. I styled it after the Pentagon's acronyms, so nimble and useful when describing the desctructive capacity of their weapons systems . . .

(to wit) CO1. CO1.2,CO1.3, etc.

translation:

Cigar Osculation 1, Cigar Osculation 1.2--- etc..



Z (N)

Nice post abrystcats. I can see you put a lot of thought into it. Very insightful and astute observation. I think it definetly applies to maternity care. Lets get back to the old model where the attending physician or mid wife does not wash their hands after wiping their ass.

Nice work.

The joys of aging are masked by the limitations of society if you ask me. I want out yes, but out to a place all my own where I can express myself continously without worry of being put out on the streets, without worry of lack of food, or money...I want to make happiness, I want to sing and write, and cook food for many, but it seems impossible, it seems the odds of that are nil...and getting niller. I'm 52, unemployed, a kidney cancer survivor, (so far) and too smart for this silly predicament, yet, I can't seem to get out of it....I feel I am a prisoner of a life I don't want, a life that isn't, and can't be, my own. It's not affordable to me. It's only affordable to the few, who make it all look so easy, but mind you, most of those successes had family handouts, inheritances and or connections that really made it possible. I haven't met a single, truly self-made success in years, if ever, really. I know this now. It was a bogus dream I bought into, thinking i had a chance as a poor white female with talent, to live that out, to live my life as my own.
What's the point of living with these tiresome obligations that never end and get in the way of living, giving, and happiness? If you have an answer to this I'd like to hear it.

The government in America, looks out for itself only, by telling you, it's citizens, that it is looking out for you. And there are suckers born by the millions every second obviously. Boy, do I ever get it now though.
My own family of origin, looks the other way when it comes to me for the most part, and they always have. I left home at 16 and considered myself lucky to get away from there! I fared quite well until getting layed off my last job 2 years ago at age 50.
I'm sinking deeper and deeper all the time.
It gets easier to hope I just don't wake up.
I am amazed most of all by that.
H

hest - Your post made me cry.

It's such a sad post.

It can't be that bad, can it? That you hope you don't wake up?

Nobody has it easy, hest. We're all struggling. Even those who have money and power suffer. People have to struggle through.... through illnesses and death of loved ones, through unexpected tragedies, through day-to-day emotions, through the pains of the human condition.

But through all that, through all the struggles, we still have each other. We have love. We have laughter. We have music. What could be more satisfying than love, laughter and music? I don't know of one thing.

I know these past two years have been difficult for you because of losing your job but you're doing it! You're still here, brightening our lives with your words, your heart, your caring, your insights!

There are some days when I feel the weight of the struggles so heavily on my chest that I can't do anything but just go lie down and remove myself from the world for a little while. I need the solace that solitude brings, and darkness. I like to lie in the dark and do nothing. Just be. I like to go outside and just be there in the sun, thinking of nothing. It really does help to stop. Just stop. Stop thinking. Stop struggling. Stop trying to figure it out. Stop trying to make it better. Just let it be.

Anyway, your post hurt my heart and I just wanted to tell you that I love you.... and I send my hope and belief that it will go more smoothly and with less struggling soon.

-----------------

Cat -

I'm not sure if you're saying the same thing as hest or not. Are you saying you sometimes feel you've had enough? That you don't want to do it any more? I hope not!

Why do you think it's difficult for a person to feel happiness after the age of 40? Is that what you're saying?

I love my age. I am 52. I'm much more comfortable now than I ever was.... and I'm not talking about having material goods or anything like that. I mean, I'm more comfortable being myself without trying too hard to be anything that I'm not. I used to try to change myself too often. Now, I am comfortable just being me and to me, that's a big part of what happiness is.

who said, "If I had known I was going to live so long, I would have taken better care of myself?"

I never thought I would live past 40 because of my reckless lifestyle.

But the trick was on me. Here I am.

My great grandmother lived to be 104 years old.

Of course the last ten years of her life she couldn't remember who I was.....

What do we get as benefit of a longer life? .....more old age.

----

hest,

I think all artists should have a scarlet 'A' emblazoned on their breast.

And this should entitle them you eat in any cafe or get foot from any grocery store or have free housing.

But I'm a dreamer too.

Doreen your recognition of how I feel made me well up, just as my own recognizing of it often does.

I don't know this level of sadness, it is new to me.

Indeed, I too like to lie in a dark room and just be. There are the rare times I still do that too. Setting the mind free from the realitymind is pure joy.
Just thinking of it makes me happy.
Waking up to it, (realitymind) is a deepening drag.

Dor, I thank you for your loving response, for reminding me subtly, of the fact that I do want to get to joy, that I always want that.

And laugh I did LRod, with abject delight, at the thought that artists could wear a scarlet letter A that entitled them to the mundane sustenances.
It sure makes sense to this dreamer too.
The comradarie of that is so very comforting.

You know, I am sad.
And I'm gonna say it right out, even though it scares me to say it, because saying it usually isn't really what people want to hear, because saying it usually makes people go away. And that's the last thing I want, is to make people go away from me. But unsaid, my resentments fester.
Sigh.

I am scared and also curious at my ease with hopeful thoughts of not waking up.
Is it Dramatics? Fear-based? Pity pot? Is it wisdom? Knowing? or apathy?
Is it all of the above?
Why am I so tired?

In the background though, I hear a jazzy constant chorus of "this too shall pass"......
The music in my head is the mantra that always saves me.
Thank you for starting it up...
H

I'm sinking deeper and deeper all the time.
It gets easier to hope I just don't wake up.

Got dam hester I thought I knew you better than that. How is your love life?

Sounds like you need to get laid worse than me/

Is there a difference between wishing you were never born and wishing you were dead? I think so. My motorcyble dreams, my gulf coast sea breeze sitting on my front porch, my trip to Virginia to see jitterbug, all pissed away in a whiz quiz. As i was driving home I heard myself say, "I wish I was dead." As soon as I said it I knew i did not mean it. These days I just look for the simple things that make me happy. A good sun rise, a beautiful sunset. The clouds, a hint of an ocean breeze, lightning thunder, rain. First good rain in months to day. The sound of falling rain is a lullaby for me. And dreams god I love my dreams, best thing about not smoking pot all the time is remembering my dreams

I finally got my love life straight,
I love my life
the sun on my face

Are you serious?
Where is surfermike
I could always depend on him when I was awash in self pity
Mike was always ready to kick me when I was down.

Cat I am sorry I did not get your post. I realize that now. I was thinking you meant euthanasia or something, get rid of us old farts.
A good time to die is anytime. A good death is another matter.

sorry hester, you know what dirty old man I am, but i realized the day a nurse tried to jump my bones in an examining room that my depression was mostly caused by not getting any pleasure out of my body, I was becoming ghost like, my body meant nothing to me anymore, we got to do something with this life, of course there is Asceticism
but I can't go there, just too much peasant blood in my viens, i

I had high hopes for that motorcycle just some joy in moving, saiboats work too, but most of all to quote jamelah it is "the dialogue of the skin" that keeps us going, just the touch of another human being. I remember A-One posting something a few years back about Hester just got kicked in the head again. Not sure what he meant but you seem to have the worst luck with men...

Give it up
stop wishing for bad luck
blow up your tv
eat a lot of peaches
and let stella raise you.
what the hell would me do with out children to lead us.

got dam I hope that crazy bastard does not delete this, I am geting pretty fuking tired of his hand puppets.

Cat

sorry did not mean to high jack your post. forty five, for a woman?

you ain't hit your peak yet. At least fifty I think to really hit your stride, just a personal observation of the women in my family. Tell that old age shit to Gary Snyder. I would not pay much attention to a 15 year olds concept of death. none of them believe they are going to die, probably why so many commit suicide, they don't believe it. Boredom, and romanic gestures. It is going to take a lot of pain for me to want out of this life. Soon enough soon enough. Now there is the matter of AARP I won't join although I should, so much attention paid to the needs of seniors while we eat our young.


ramble ramble

Thanks diesel, still, for your votes of confidence.

H

Sylvia Plath and Anne Sexton,
The Bell Jar and When Jesus Suckled, turned my life around, thirty years those seeds been cooking.

Hester I am not much for male feminism, I think it is bull shit feminism my self. The best a man can do is proto-feminism. I been going steady with sylvia aka ester greenwood for years. Learning to navigate the dark sea within me. Those feminine waters that are my soul. I spent many a night with visions of suicide in my head. I owe those two women a lot. I did not learn a thing from their deaths, but the work they did in their life saved my inky dinky @$$.
Confidence? see I don't understand that.

The only thing I am concerned with is my own selfish desire to hear you sing.

happy that you have more confidence, I don't know how I helped but I hope you feel better.

Do you spend much time by your self? spiderwoman took an hour out of her day for herself, her daughters her husband had to respect that. She went into her den and shut the world out. It made her stronger.

It has taken a lot of flames on litkicks to get me where I am. Finally I have learned to rise above my own melo drama, my own life. Maybe that is what all these Zen dudes mean by empty minds.

I was just trying to make you laugh. But if confidence helps you that is good.
give the credit to St Anne and St Sylvia.
sing hester please

funny face

hmmm, I dunno.

um,...

When I was a teenager I said a lot of stupid shit about living hard and dying young. Mum, being the faithful Christian she is, went to a Chinese spiritualist to get me some jewelry with this symbol for long life and fertility (or some shit) on it.

Well, I ended up making it past 21 after all, and as I approached 30 I started to fret. But as it turns out my 30th was quite magical and thus I feel younger than ever.

I can't really speak personally about desiring the end. Even when I said stupid shit as a teen it was only bravado. Now I reckon I can do about 125 no probs, assuming I quit ciggis in the next 10 years and start getting fit and eating healthier.

Dad's 58. He doesn't strike me as waning. In fact, he's been gowing through some pretty remarkable epiphanies himself, which no doubt is giving his life some renewed spark. I think you generalise rather harshly when you say most are ready for out by 50. I think that if you're ready for out by 50 then there is something very wrong. Perhaps it's that one spent their life as a slave. Who knows?

I also think it's bullshit that we wouldn't live much past 40 if t'weren't for immunizations and what not. We're not actually supposed to die at all, you know, ever. Just as headaches are something that we have been conditioned to accept into our experience, though they don't really exist, so too with death.

Living to 70, 80, 90? Not a new thing at all (relatively speaking). Not weird.

"What if you decide you've had enough "

Sorry dear, you don't get to decide.