to where does privacy extend?

Go ahead. Talk about it.
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sooZen
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Post by sooZen » February 26th, 2006, 3:32 pm

knip...
i asked him a while ago "what happened to the zack i knew?"

he replied "you didn't know him...this is me now"


i'll believe that when i give up...which can't happen
as a zennist, I think that every moment we are a new person. There are always choices to be made, paths to take...

Zach will never be the child you remember but will hold that child inside of him.

It is our 'expectations' that are our downfall. Zach is right, he is a result and will be the result of his experiences. Your baby is just a memory and the man he will be is just a wonder. When we accept what is...the world opens.

As Ram Dass says...."Be here, Be now" and that is what you have, the good and the bad of the present. Like MT said, hopefully you can smile in this space and know it will pass...
Freedom's just another word...



http://soozen.livejournal.com/

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Glorious Amok
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Post by Glorious Amok » February 26th, 2006, 3:46 pm

mis-use.

very nice. them's the words of someone who has learned himself that there is a delicate balance, in every realm of the universe. and yeah, he's gotta learn that. everyone does.

but nobody can EVER learn it for ya.

each one of us has learned that many things in the world are dangerous. kitchen knives are dangerous. driving is dangerous. we don't rule them out, we learn how to use them safely. after one good slice, you handle the knife with a little more caution. after a fender-bender or two, the gas foot gets a little lighter. i have learned that coffee on a daily basis makes me fidgety, and more than 8 glasses of wine makes me throw up.

he can learn....

I recommend getting your heart trampled on to anyone
I recommend walking around naked in your living room
Swallow it down (what a jagged little pill)
It feels so good (swimming in your stomach)
Wait until the dust settles

You live you learn
You love you learn
You cry you learn
You lose you learn
You bleed you learn
You scream you learn

I recommend biting off more than you can chew to anyone
I certainly do
I recommend sticking your foot in your mouth at any time
Feel free
Throw it down (the caution blocks you from the wind)
Hold it up (to the rays)
You wait and see when the smoke clears

Wear it out (the way a three-year-old would do)
Melt it down (you're gonna have to eventually anyway)
The fire trucks are coming up around the bend

You grieve you learn
You choke you learn
You laugh you learn
You choose you learn
You pray you learn
You ask you learn
You live you learn
"YOUR way is your only way." - jack kerouac

knip
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Post by knip » February 27th, 2006, 7:26 am

guess i'm helpin him learn



of course, i did it again...the lad still has the brass knuckles in his coat, despite my telling him to not bring them back to the house

so i turfed them into the field of snow behind us


how does that song go "well, my bags are packed, i'm ready to go..."

or something like that

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sooZen
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Post by sooZen » February 27th, 2006, 9:16 am

GA...I loved your poetic response! Great and oh, so true!

Knip

"...Carrying brass knuckles" Do you wonder why he carries them? You threw them away? You both are angry, it seems.

Love
Humor
Understanding
Humor
Patience
Humor
Love

It takes practice.

Zach will go his own way. You are a conduit so he can do it.

It must be extremely difficult to leave right now.

I hope you call or write Zach often and tell him you care.

Good luck knip and have a safe trip.
Freedom's just another word...



http://soozen.livejournal.com/

knip
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Post by knip » February 27th, 2006, 10:15 am

thanks sooze


he tells me carries them because he would rather have them and not need them than need them and not have them...


doesn't matter...they're concealed weapons here, and given his propensity to get wasted in public places, it's only a matter of time before he gets found with them and gets charged

it's my job to protect him from himself, no matter how hard he fights it

when i found them the first time, i gave them back and told him not to bring them back into the house

and he did, so i turfed them


of course the big issue in his mind is the invasion of privacy issue, which is, of course, what this whole thread was about...i've gotten excellent responses, which have served to solidify in my mind that i did the right thing, although nagging doubt remains...i doubt i'll ever get rid of that, but i had to do it, or so my gut told me

last night he was moving out in the morning....half an hour ago he left, without his bags, to quit school and find a job

he's not leaving yet...i know this....he may split for a few days, which is nothing new...my sense is he's trying to punish us (it's working!)

but he's waiting me out...all he's got to do is tough out 5 days, then i'm gone, and he'll be back to normal trying to ride roughshod over his mother, which will work for him for a while, but not in the long run, i think

so, a night full of crying in my and mother's bedroom...the fact that he turns 18 tomorrow sure doesn't make it any easier

but i fully appreciate he's going to have to learn things himself now...it is clear he won't listen to me, as i didn't listen to my father at his age (actually, at his age i was already moved out for a couple years....he must be a slow developer)

:)


humour....yes

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Ann Bingham
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Post by Ann Bingham » February 27th, 2006, 12:38 pm

:?

Sorry to pose this question, but what makes you think he is waiting you out? Perhaps to see if you will actually go? I'm sorry to feel the way I do, (perhaps I should say believe), but some of the people I have associated with who have been involved in drugs did so for one of more reasons. My worry is the reason, to escape, not just for the pleasure of it. Escaping is the misuse, pleasure, I think, requires knowing when you've had enough to experience pleasure. Perhaps you should seek out the reasons for his use, or misuse. Perhaps at the age he is he has not yet learned where the pleasure ends, and thus misuse begins.

This topic you have shared with us, I feel, will help those of us who have yet to experience the age of rebellion, though my years I believe are just beginning with my beloveds.


Do not automatically assume he is not listening to you, he's listening, I'm sure. It just hasn't registered that it is for love, and not dominion, that you are trying to direct him to a life he can look back on and be proud of, not ashamed of.


Love lots
Deborah Ann

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stilltrucking
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Post by stilltrucking » February 27th, 2006, 12:49 pm

AB i have been posting on and off to knip for a long time, he is always wanting to play the devils advocate with posts about this murderous greedy little war our homeland is in. So I will do him the honor of returning the favor,

Knip, why don ya sit down and get stoned with him ya know do like the first americans did, pass the peace pipe

AB seems a little doubtful that you are going to set sail. I know you better, there is no way you will not be on that ship.

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Arcadia
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Post by Arcadia » February 27th, 2006, 8:31 pm

send post-cards or something to the kayak-boy, sí?

knip
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Post by knip » February 27th, 2006, 9:10 pm

all great stuff...especially this
Do not automatically assume he is not listening to you, he's listening, I'm sure. It just hasn't registered that it is for love, and not dominion, that you are trying to direct him to a life he can look back on and be proud of, not ashamed of.

appreciate it all

the original question had to do mainly with the privacy angle...i've pretty much got that set in my mind now

as for the dope business...that's really an age-old question, isn't it?



i'd love to have a bowl with him, but i really don't believe that's the answer

anyway, he's decided to split until i leave saturday...i have to say, although it's a poor resolution, it is at least a resolution of sorts...although i believe he's mainly looking for a vacation, i don't discount the idea that maybe getting away can be useful for him

unfortunately, i believe he thinks he will run roughshod over his mom on his return...i'm afraid it's not gonna be that easy for him...



ahhhhhhhhhhhh life

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judih
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Post by judih » February 27th, 2006, 11:58 pm

so much to talk about. so much to listen to.
any time between now and when you ship out, k, would be the perfect time to sit down and talk (with or without counselor)

something like: son, we love you. let's talk about what's going on here. ...I found...You reacted...I said....You said...Is that how you saw it?

and talk. The fact that you don't have endless hours to wait for the discussion to happen might present a fitting sense of Now - now's the time to do it. No reason to wait. Let's try to listen to one another - now.

Before imagination embellishes events, and before resentments cloud issues. Maybe that's already happened, but if so, it's better to cut the foggy flow as soon as possible.

Drama's good for movies...it's better in real life to act sooner than later.

18's a dramatic year in itself.

Oh, and one other issue.
My beloved 20 yr old daughter got totally disillusioned with high school just before she had to pass her final matriculation exams. Her art major was done brilliantly but her metaphorical sculpture was analyzed to the ground and misinterpreted and teachers were suggesting she go (no, run) to a shrink. She did run - far from the teachers. She gave up on the game she'd been trying to play - going through the motions of diligent student. The sham was over for her - nothing to do with her intelligence, abilities or energy. Simply she had had enough of the institution.

Sometimes highschool is irrelevent even though the kid's at high school age. Schooling can be completed later - it is an option. i guess you know that but it is something to remember. Every kid has her/his own path.

i saw what happened to my daughter. What happened to your son? You said he was going to tell you...perhaps he's aching to do so.

best to you all,

judih

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