Beat It

[Doreen Peri]

no problem. i understand
but what does your crusade have to do with a pop singer who may be perfectly innocent?

i'm suggesting that we need to separate our own issues from the newspaper sensationalism.

There's a wave of public fever being fed by media, but will that fever help to enlighten or will it help to lynch.

beware of mass psychosis.

Well, judih... apparently the pop singer had books with sexually explicit photographs of nude boys which he showed to his Neverland Ranch boys. Is that right? Is that OK?

Is this newspaper sensationalism? I don't think so. They're putting the books into evidence. The books exist. Did he really show them to the boys he invited to his ranch? This is what's being claimed. I don't know. I wasn't there. But if he DID show books of that nature to young boys, then guess what? I think THAT's probably a crime in itself! If he or any other adult showed my son or daughter photographs of naked boys in provocative sexual positions, I would think this was way wrong. Wouldn't you? Sure, all these types of photos are available on the internet but any adult who steers a child toward viewing them is sick.

Perhaps Michael Jackson IS innocent. That remains to be seen. We may never know. I suspect we won't. Because no matter the evidence presented in the trial, the man will walk. Because he's wealthy.

Do you think I'm publically trying to lynch the man? I'm not. I'm only writing my opinion that it is NOT acceptable to show young boys such publications. Am I a prude? I don't think so. Not by a long shot. People are influenced easily at young ages and there are age limitations set for certain activities for good reason.

What does my crusade have to do with a pop singer who may be innocent? Everything. I will use every opportunity I have to speak out against child sexual abuse. If the man is innocent.... GOOD! I hope the hell he IS! I pray the mother of this child is the con-woman LR portrays her as. I hope and pray that man never touched him!

But because the issue is a public issue, it gives me the opportunity to speak and I will continue to do so.

Here is my stance.....

NO adult human being has the right to solicit sexual favors from any child, male or female, "child" being defined by age specified by laws which were created because children cannot make such decisions. They are not mature enough.

I don't have mass psychosis.

I have sanity.

And my children's lives and your children's lives and all of the world's children's lives are at stake.

The moment we veer away from the lines which are appropriately drawn on issues like this to say that it's OK to cross them in ANY circumstance at all, is the moment we give our children's lives to mass psychosis.

Enlightenment includes being aware of the ever-present illnesses on our planet. One of these illnesses is pedophilia.

Again, as I said before, if Jackson is innocent, I couldn't be more pleased!

But because his case is in the public arena, I have the opportunity to speak out against child sexual abuse.

And I also have the right to proclaim my opinion which is.... I don't know.... I have no clue of his guilt or innocence.... but any grown man who brings children into his home where books promote sexual activity by children is someone who I would be very wary of.

The biggest question in my mind at this point is why would the parents of these children even ALLOW their kids to spend so much time there.

He didn't have an authorized childcare center which was inspected and approved by the state or any other jurisdiction.

What IS or WAS the "Neverland Ranch"?

I don't know. Do you? Could you speculate for me?

Enlightenment includes exploring all possibilities. And if the possibilities include violating the physical, mental, and spiritual rights of any human being, they should be addressed, whether the violations actually occured or not.

This is because we need to be aware and diligent enough to protect people from violation now and in the future.

[sooZen]

Lrod...I think you and I like to open cans of worms and go fishing. Hah!

Let me see if I can state my case for why I think Mike is an innocent man...first of all, this prosecutor, Sneedon has gone to incredible lengths to find damaging evidence against his target. I think the man is out to prove something, anything against Jackson. His office found NO DNA in Mike's bedroom (of Mike's or anyone else's), they found some porn mags locked in a briefcase where Mike says he put them after some of the boys there had been caught with them. Boys were 'plied' with liquor...ahem, boys get into liquor cabinets when not watched all the time...how many boys have gotten into their parents or their friends' parents liquor?

Okay, Mike says he lets some of the kids sleep in his bed while he sleeps elsewhere. When Jake sleeps here on an overnighter, we let the boys sleep in our bed (Nate has a twin bed) while we sleep upstairs. We have porn in the house and we have to lock it up too because some little boys I know have snuck into it. Nate buys his own magazines now, he likes blondes...

Jackson is famous and because of his talents, he is a wealthy man who loves to do things for children. He has supported many, many children's charities, had children from all parts of the world at his Neverland Ranch. Now this child that he is accused of molesting...look at how this child was raised and who did the raising? The mother has a very spotted and suspect past of accusing others of various and sundry for a payoff including others who are rich and famous.

I don't think Mike's money will get him off...I think this prosecutor will do anything to convict a man that may be perfectly innocent because he resents what Michael is and stands for. Mike is screwed, his career is screwed and he can never find Neverland again...

I would like to disagree also that very young children cannot be seductive, manipulative, or deceptive. We had a case here in Phar Lepht where a teacher at a YWCA daycare was accused of sexually abusing the children in her care. The newspapers and media were all over her, she lost her credentials, her job and was incarcerated. Come to find out, the social workers that interviewed the children were putting the ideas into their heads and then the children were elaborating on those ideas. This woman was eventually found completely innocent...in the meantime, those kids were in therapy and what did all of that stuff do to them? The lady had to leave town, forever tainted by lies.

Are all those that are branded as sexual predators guilty? A boy in Texas, who was 18 was fooling around with a girl that was 15 and her parents caught them. He is now a registered sex offender. When I was 15, I fooled around with older guys too because most of the time, I was more mature than any of them.

"...lock them up and throw away the key"? There was another case of a man that was a pedophile, he loved children but had never, ever acted on his impulse, he only wrote about it on the net with others of like mind and in his journals. His house was raided, his writings seized and he was convicted all because he wrote about his fantasies. The only victim here was him.

I can understand Doreen and Hesters' attitudes. They both have young girls that they must protect and this is a very dangerous world, especially if you are a young girl. Heck, this is a dangerous world for any of our gender, as predators will pick on the weakest of us and that is the nature of the beast.

Our prisons are not just filled with the guilty, there are many that have been wrongly and unjustly accused and convicted. Before we judge Michael because of this crazy circus that would love to see him topple and lie prostrate in sin, maybe we should step back and give him the benefit of doubt.

Peace,
SooZen

[hester_prynne]

I agree with Cec, we can't really know for sure whether or not Michael Jackson is innocent or guilty.
I happen to think he is guilty, it just seems too obvious to me. He always talks about how he loves children and that he is a child himself. But he isn't a child is he? He's an adult male, with an obvious preference for children, boy children.
Hmmmmmmm.
He's an adult male, supplying children with alcohol and porn within an amusement park he had built for children. He has overnight pajamie parties with his boyfriends at his park.
Hmmmmmmm.
He calls his park Neverland, after a place conjured up by a fictional character, Peter Pan....a place for those of us that never want to grow up. But we do grow up physically, all of us that live beyond age 21 don't we?
Hmmmmmmmm.
I think Pan Peter is more suitable for Mr. Jackson at this point. I also think Mr. Jackson's denial is very very deep rooted and though his denial, can be very convincing, (denial can be extremely misleading to everyone) at the very least, I think it all warrents being checked out.

(I also happen to think that the mother of the child in question is probably guilty as well, of exploiting her kid via looking the other way, and getting paid for it. I think the money ran out for her and she wants more. Grifters are like that.)

Someone, however, is guilty and there is a victim. I don't think the victim is the child's mother, or Michael Jackson.
Victims always seem to be the least important figure. After all, they didn't do anything wrong, they just had wrongs inflicted on them. Who cares about that really, it's the perps that get all the newsmedia, and all the hype, and all the concern. It's the victims who suffer for their whole lives, and get shunned in our society, if not outright killed.

In the meantime, while the Michael Jackson story is getting top billing in the newsmedia and in many people's easily diverted heads, I got can of worms to boast opening for you too right here: Condumblezza and her lover Georgie are settin us up to hit syria, and telling everyone else in the middle east that the freedom/democracy they are spreading comes from a "higher power".
La la la!

H

[jimboloco]

I had a teacher in the eighth grade who sat on her desk with her skirt up above her knees telling us about english.

I remember nothing except her damn legs and her skirt, the way it hugged her form, oh yeah.

[Glorious Amok]

have you voted yet?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7149308/

i think common sense can tell us a lot. sometimes, it stays hidden for a long, long time, and then suddenly decides to show itself. for instance, i lived with a guy before i married my husband. after something like 3 months, we moved into separate bedrooms. (we tried to work things out but it didn't help that i started seeing a girl on the side) i was married to my husband about 15 months before the same thing happened again. separate bedrooms, and loveletters to another woman, only he wasn't the one writing love letters, i was. finally i looked around that separate bedroom of mine, and realized i had pictures and art filled with women, all around my room. no men. not in any picture anywhere in my bedroom. i have painted it all sexy colours, and dolled the place right up, so it's not like no thought or preparation went into it. i designed this place. it's gorgeous, and i love it. women everywhere! my common sense finally kicked in.

now, it's natural that people mature, develop sexual feelings, and begin to act on them. it happened to me, it happened to you, it's happened to everyone you know. just try to think of someone, anyone you know who has NEVER had a sexual impluse. anyone?

Michael Jackson is 46 years old and a ROCK STAR. and have you ever heard any believable evidence of him having sex with ANYONE? ANYONE AT ALL??? that whole wife and kids bullshit was about as believable as OJ and his glove. and the Lisa Marie episode?!? whatever, don't get me started. even my own marriage was more convincing than that.

now, the man, however absurd, is human nonetheless. and certainly, he's got the impulse. EVERYBODY's GOT IT! and we all like a little visual material to get the juices flowing. i've got my gwen stefani videos, Nate's got his blondes, buddhabitch and cecil have whatever they have that's locked up, and Jackson's got his life-size boy dolls all over the house. inside his "inner below", that's where he keeps the ones who wear nothing but loin cloths. nothing wrong with fantasies, eh? we've established that. pas de problème.

but does Nate have hidden caves built into the house, accessible by no other means except keypad codes, known only to him, in which to secret them away? does he have blonde-friendly alarms that go off whenever somebody passes by the room? i mean, i have a little slide-latch on the door, and that's all that i've ever found necessary. but then, if i were doing something in here that i knew was criminal, i'd probably augment my current system.

i mean, i understand the need for security when you're a rockstar, but Jackson's alarm isn't your standard siren or even a gentle 'blinging' like our fire alarm at the theatre. it's a bunch of stuffed animal toys playing musical instruments that are all rigged to go off when somebody approaches the bedroom. now, you explain that to me... if they're just quietly, innocently sleeping in there, why do they need an alarm to go off telling them they're about to get caught? if they're worried about an intruder, then why isn't it a big fucking air-raid siren hard-wired to the police station? that's security. what that is, is a "stop what you're doing, mom's coming up the stairs" type of warning, deliberately designed to calm and distract no one other than a child. why would you want to be woken up evertime somebody passed by the room?

that's a don't-panic-panic-button.

Justin Timberlake is a big, rich, straight rockstar... his put-yer-pointer-away alarm is probably something that plays R&B ballads. Elton John is a big, rich, gay rockstar... his pull-up-your-pants-warning is proably something that plays Judy Garland showtunes. if i were a kazillionaire, i'd probably alarm my boudoire with something by Ani or Paula Cole.

we design our homes not only to please ourselves, but also to tempt and seduce our lovers, to make an impression on them. now, what does that tell you and your common sense about Jackson?

[Lightning Rod]

again you amaze me, pet-jell

your sense of irony and your command of the language is a joy

plus your rugged perspective and the fact that you are adorable

doesn't hurt either. Keep seeking.

[Doreen Peri]

i mean, i understand the need for security when you're a rockstar, but Jackson's alarm isn't your standard siren or even a gentle 'blinging' like our fire alarm at the theatre. it's a bunch of stuffed animal toys playing musical instruments that are all rigged to go off when somebody approaches the bedroom. now, you explain that to me... if they're just quietly, innocently sleeping in there, why do they need an alarm to go off telling them they're about to get caught? if they're worried about an intruder, then why isn't it a big fucking air-raid siren hard-wired to the police station? that's security. what that is, is a "stop what you're doing, mom's coming up the stairs" type of warning, deliberately designed to calm and distract no one other than a child. why would you want to be woken up evertime somebody passed by the room?

that's a don't-panic-panic-button.

Exactly!

we design our homes not only to please ourselves, but also to tempt and seduce our lovers, to make an impression on them. now, what does that tell you and your common sense about Jackson?

Well said!


(personal note about the girls.... follow your heart ....why the indecision?)

[Glorious Amok]

not so much an indecision as much as a late decision. or, not even a decision, so much as a development. it's a voice i tried to silence for a long, long time. it started 10 years ago, and has just finally grown to this level.

i'm undergoing major renovations. i'm putting in a deck!

[abcrystcats]

I thought it was pretty well known that Michael Jackson was physically and emotionally abused as a child. It could be that he was sexually abused too.

He's obviously an extremely messed up person.

The circumstantial evidence, and people's gut instincts (including mine) all point to his guilt, but it's probably a lot more complicated than that.

First of all, MJ's perspective on all this is likely to be very different than ours. If he is having sexual contact with young boys, it's obvious that he sees it as something very innocent and harmless. He's warped, but he's been warped by his past and by his own unexplainable and perplexing sexual feelings.

I believe he's guilty of some or all of the accusations that have been made against him, but I see him as at least as much of a victim as he is a perpetrator, because of his own childhood experiences, and nothing else.

I also think that he probably had very good intentions in establishing Neverland and in contributing so generously to many public and private charities that benefit children. He's probably haunted by his own miserable memories of abuse and he wants to shelter other children from feeling the same kinds of pain he once experienced.

The other thing that complicates this is that mother of the alleged victim has learned all about how to make the court system work for her. Do you think ... is it possible ... that she knew of her son's sexual abuse for a long time and she did nothing because she was looking forward to collecting money at the end of it all? There may be more than one guilty person in this courtroom.

As for the DA planting evidence ... I don't know. I think that's a bit farfetched. Michael Jackson's celebrity has been protecting him from prosecution for a long time. The DA is just determined that this time he won't walk away free.

I think he's guilty, but I don't have any particular vehemence about it. I don't wish to see him taken care of by the inmates of Soledad prison, or taken out and shot. This is a person who clearly needs some serious psychiatric care. I don't think he ever ought to be allowed within 500 feet of any child (even his own -- especially his own!) ever again, but I don't see him as some drooling pedophile lurking around in dark corners waiting for his next victim. He's not evil, he's messed up.

The way he's handling this trial proves to me that he doesn't completely grasp the seriousness of the charges. Showing up in court in his pajamas??? He's definitely doing his part to turn the whole thing into a media circus.

His repeated nose jobs and other plastic surgeries, his hyperbaric chamber, his whole histrionic lifestyle has been one long cry for help. The public has been standing back and laughing at him for a very long time. Now that he's finally being accused of a serious crime, everyone wants to crucify him. The whole thing is a terrible tragedy, but Michael Jackson is as much a victim as a perpetrator.

[abcrystcats]

I thought it was pretty well known that Michael Jackson was physically and emotionally abused as a child. It could be that he was sexually abused too.

He's obviously an extremely messed up person.

The circumstantial evidence, and people's gut instincts (including mine) all point to his guilt, but it's probably a lot more complicated than that.

First of all, MJ's perspective on all this is likely to be very different than ours. If he is having sexual contact with young boys, it's obvious that he sees it as something very innocent and harmless. He's warped, but he's been warped by his past and by his own unexplainable and perplexing sexual feelings.

I believe he's guilty of some or all of the accusations that have been made against him, but I see him as at least as much of a victim as he is a perpetrator, because of his own childhood experiences, and nothing else.

I also think that he probably had very good intentions in establishing Neverland and in contributing so generously to many public and private charities that benefit children. He's probably haunted by his own miserable memories of abuse and he wants to shelter other children from feeling the same kinds of pain he once experienced.

The other thing that complicates this is that mother of the alleged victim has learned all about how to make the court system work for her. Do you think ... is it possible ... that she knew of her son's sexual abuse for a long time and she did nothing because she was looking forward to collecting money at the end of it all? There may be more than one guilty person in this courtroom.

As for the DA planting evidence ... I don't know. I think that's a bit farfetched. Michael Jackson's celebrity has been protecting him from prosecution for a long time. The DA is just determined that this time he won't walk away free.

I think he's guilty, but I don't have any particular vehemence about it. I don't wish to see him taken care of by the inmates of Soledad prison, or taken out and shot. This is a person who clearly needs some serious psychiatric care. I don't think he ever ought to be allowed within 500 feet of any child (even his own -- especially his own!) ever again, but I don't see him as some drooling pedophile lurking around in dark corners waiting for his next victim. He's not evil, he's messed up.

The way he's handling this trial proves to me that he doesn't completely grasp the seriousness of the charges. Showing up in court in his pajamas??? He's definitely doing his part to turn the whole thing into a media circus.

His repeated nose jobs and other plastic surgeries, his hyperbaric chamber, his whole histrionic lifestyle has been one long cry for help. The public has been standing back and laughing at him for a very long time. Now that he's finally being accused of a serious crime, everyone wants to crucify him. The whole thing is a terrible tragedy, but Michael Jackson is as much a victim as a perpetrator.