Today in Baseball History
Today in Baseball History
57 years ago today, Jackie Robinson broke the color line in Major League Baseball.
i was chatting with some fellow baseball fans, and we were talking about this recent article where some writer compared what jackie went through to what derek jeter is going through today - basically, that they were both underappreciated ballplayers, which, of course, is a total pile of crap, since jackie's importance to a sport that was so far behind other sports in terms of rights and equality went far beyond what he did on the field...the discussion then turned to what would be the equivalent today to what he went through back then? the only thing we could come up with was a player coming out of the closet...but somehow that still doesn't feel comparable
I'm not sure how 'comparable 'coming out' would be to breaking the color line. There are still some incredibly bigoted feeling regarding homosexuals, but as a whole, I think the average American is more open-minded than a 1947 American was about black people. Of course, I wasn't alive in 1947, so I can only speculate.
One thing though; I think it might be harder for a gay person to come out because of how his teammates would treat him rather than the fans. Sure, there would be a great deal of heckling. It's been awhile since I've sat in the bleachers at Wrigley field, but according my memory of such times, augmented by talking with people who've been there more recently, there is still a lot of racist heckling directed at players. And the thing is, it's not necessarily personal, or even reflective of the feelings of the fan, it's just a way to get at players. not that it makes it any more acceptable. And it is still pretty much acceptable to attack a man by questioning his masculinity (i.e. imply that he's gay. which of course is only bad if one presume homosexuality to be bad) in a way you couldn't attack an ethnicity.
But back to clubhouse relations. I think this is where a gay player would face his primary opposition. I'm not aware of how Jackie Robinson's teammates felt about having a black person sharing a locker room with them; I haven't done any reading on the subject. But I do know that in something as hypermasculine as sports, a gay player would likely not be made to feel welcome. There would be the questions about showering and changing together. Some (maybe many) players would suggest separate locker rooms, I'm sure.
The thing is, there have been and certainly currently are gay players in baseball and other sports. A few have come out after their playing careers ended, and there was a bit of a to-do a few years back with the editor of a gay publication wrote a column about his relationship with a prominent East Coast ballplayer. (read the article here: http://www.out.com/html/edletter90.html ). And gay players are different than ethnic players in that they can 'hide' what they 'are.' But it is actually sort of hard to believe that people who spend so much time together on the road wouldn't be able to tell. I've read about major league clubhouses, and know someone who was a trainer for a team, and he said that the first thing the guys (married and unmarried alike) did when they got into town on a road trip was to phone up the preferred escort service and arrange for some 'entertainment'. It makes me wonder if a gay player would have to 'play straight' and go along to the strip clubs, etc. to fit in and avoid questions.
It would probably be more difficult to deal with than the fans, and honestly, probably not too different from what Jackie Robinson went through, taken as a whole .
One thing though; I think it might be harder for a gay person to come out because of how his teammates would treat him rather than the fans. Sure, there would be a great deal of heckling. It's been awhile since I've sat in the bleachers at Wrigley field, but according my memory of such times, augmented by talking with people who've been there more recently, there is still a lot of racist heckling directed at players. And the thing is, it's not necessarily personal, or even reflective of the feelings of the fan, it's just a way to get at players. not that it makes it any more acceptable. And it is still pretty much acceptable to attack a man by questioning his masculinity (i.e. imply that he's gay. which of course is only bad if one presume homosexuality to be bad) in a way you couldn't attack an ethnicity.
But back to clubhouse relations. I think this is where a gay player would face his primary opposition. I'm not aware of how Jackie Robinson's teammates felt about having a black person sharing a locker room with them; I haven't done any reading on the subject. But I do know that in something as hypermasculine as sports, a gay player would likely not be made to feel welcome. There would be the questions about showering and changing together. Some (maybe many) players would suggest separate locker rooms, I'm sure.
The thing is, there have been and certainly currently are gay players in baseball and other sports. A few have come out after their playing careers ended, and there was a bit of a to-do a few years back with the editor of a gay publication wrote a column about his relationship with a prominent East Coast ballplayer. (read the article here: http://www.out.com/html/edletter90.html ). And gay players are different than ethnic players in that they can 'hide' what they 'are.' But it is actually sort of hard to believe that people who spend so much time together on the road wouldn't be able to tell. I've read about major league clubhouses, and know someone who was a trainer for a team, and he said that the first thing the guys (married and unmarried alike) did when they got into town on a road trip was to phone up the preferred escort service and arrange for some 'entertainment'. It makes me wonder if a gay player would have to 'play straight' and go along to the strip clubs, etc. to fit in and avoid questions.
It would probably be more difficult to deal with than the fans, and honestly, probably not too different from what Jackie Robinson went through, taken as a whole .
shamantha, you fag!
sorry...couldn't resist
all very good points...i thought i'd share some personal experiences with living and working in confined quarters with primarily men, and how homosexual attitudes have changed over time in my profession
if you don't know, i am in the canadian navy...22 years and running...when i first joined, homosexuality was against the rules, and the SIU (special investigations unit) spent a lot of its time hunting them down (along with finding dope smokers and dirty commies)...i've always been a liberal in most things, and have been caught in ethical dilemmas at various times during my career as an officer...in the 80s i dreaded that some day i might have to throw someone out for homosexuality...i honestly didn't know what i would do in that case, because whenever the topic came up in the mess or with senior officers, i never hesitated to attack the policy...although that particular dillemma never manifested for me, it did for a friend...we received a message at sea from hq advising a sailor had been discovered to be gay, and that he wwould be dismissed form the service on our return home...my friend was his boss, and he had to interview him to tell him what was up...later that night, when he didn't show up on watch, we did a search of the ship and his locker...he was gone, but a will was left in his locker...the kid had jumped over the side
then later, around 1992, the policy changed, but attitudes didn't so much...male gays hesitated to come out still, although with the opening up of almost all trades to women (submarines are the only area where women still cannot join), the female gays came out loud and proud...there was a short period of concern amongst the die-hard generation, but after a couple incidents, folks just started to accept it...during this time, there was sort of an unspoken knowledge of male gays, though, or at least, most folks thought they could spot them...it became a bit of a game for some folks to try to guess who the male gays were, but even that petered out after a while...
my last tour at sea was 2001-2003...most male gays were fully out by this time...we have this one trade known as 'stokers'...the name comes from the days of coal-covered engineers shoveling coal into the boilers - stoking the fires...today they are the mechanical systems engineers...fixing pumps, engines, shafts, etc...they are a relatively rough bunch, but only in the sense that those who enjoy working with machines, in general, tend to be a somewhat rougher bunch than those working computers and data systems...there was Petty Officer stoker who was gay and all the way out...sitting in the Chiefs and Petty Officers mess, watching movies, he used to ogle and make lewd comments about actors...the brad pitts...you get the drift...the other guys would say things, but all light-hearted...basically, he was accepted, his homosexuality acknowledged, laughed about...the guy was as much a sailor as any other, and part of the team...those few, and they were very few, who refused to eat with him or sit with him, were marginalized by the rest of the mess...dinosaurs moving towards extinction...others, who might have had personal misgivings as to the normalcy of homosexuality, basically shut up and kept their opinions to themselves, or at least voiced them during conversation, but not maliciously
i think the coming out is a good thing, although i fully acknowledge i am not the one to tell folks they should come out...it remains a personal decision, of course...but i have been in a similar circumstance as the ballplayers...a male-dominated profession that travels together, shares common unique experiences, etc...(in fact, i have two uncles who played hockey in the nhl, around the same age...the similarities between comradery and realities of naval life are amazingly similar to that of pro sports)...i think the ballplayers are around where we, in the navy, were around 8-10 years ago...halfway between gay ostracization and near-full acceptance...it is a cloudy transitional period, to be sure, but i am hoping baseball, and indeed other pro sports, can emerge with some realistic attitudes...and i think this might happen soon
hoping, anyway
sorry...couldn't resist
all very good points...i thought i'd share some personal experiences with living and working in confined quarters with primarily men, and how homosexual attitudes have changed over time in my profession
if you don't know, i am in the canadian navy...22 years and running...when i first joined, homosexuality was against the rules, and the SIU (special investigations unit) spent a lot of its time hunting them down (along with finding dope smokers and dirty commies)...i've always been a liberal in most things, and have been caught in ethical dilemmas at various times during my career as an officer...in the 80s i dreaded that some day i might have to throw someone out for homosexuality...i honestly didn't know what i would do in that case, because whenever the topic came up in the mess or with senior officers, i never hesitated to attack the policy...although that particular dillemma never manifested for me, it did for a friend...we received a message at sea from hq advising a sailor had been discovered to be gay, and that he wwould be dismissed form the service on our return home...my friend was his boss, and he had to interview him to tell him what was up...later that night, when he didn't show up on watch, we did a search of the ship and his locker...he was gone, but a will was left in his locker...the kid had jumped over the side
then later, around 1992, the policy changed, but attitudes didn't so much...male gays hesitated to come out still, although with the opening up of almost all trades to women (submarines are the only area where women still cannot join), the female gays came out loud and proud...there was a short period of concern amongst the die-hard generation, but after a couple incidents, folks just started to accept it...during this time, there was sort of an unspoken knowledge of male gays, though, or at least, most folks thought they could spot them...it became a bit of a game for some folks to try to guess who the male gays were, but even that petered out after a while...
my last tour at sea was 2001-2003...most male gays were fully out by this time...we have this one trade known as 'stokers'...the name comes from the days of coal-covered engineers shoveling coal into the boilers - stoking the fires...today they are the mechanical systems engineers...fixing pumps, engines, shafts, etc...they are a relatively rough bunch, but only in the sense that those who enjoy working with machines, in general, tend to be a somewhat rougher bunch than those working computers and data systems...there was Petty Officer stoker who was gay and all the way out...sitting in the Chiefs and Petty Officers mess, watching movies, he used to ogle and make lewd comments about actors...the brad pitts...you get the drift...the other guys would say things, but all light-hearted...basically, he was accepted, his homosexuality acknowledged, laughed about...the guy was as much a sailor as any other, and part of the team...those few, and they were very few, who refused to eat with him or sit with him, were marginalized by the rest of the mess...dinosaurs moving towards extinction...others, who might have had personal misgivings as to the normalcy of homosexuality, basically shut up and kept their opinions to themselves, or at least voiced them during conversation, but not maliciously
i think the coming out is a good thing, although i fully acknowledge i am not the one to tell folks they should come out...it remains a personal decision, of course...but i have been in a similar circumstance as the ballplayers...a male-dominated profession that travels together, shares common unique experiences, etc...(in fact, i have two uncles who played hockey in the nhl, around the same age...the similarities between comradery and realities of naval life are amazingly similar to that of pro sports)...i think the ballplayers are around where we, in the navy, were around 8-10 years ago...halfway between gay ostracization and near-full acceptance...it is a cloudy transitional period, to be sure, but i am hoping baseball, and indeed other pro sports, can emerge with some realistic attitudes...and i think this might happen soon
hoping, anyway
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