The worthy cause of Iraqi Freedom

[mnaz]

well, ok.

'globalization'. well, sure. how could anyone be against that?

what about self-interested imperial domination, disguised as 'globalization'.... a kind of 'involuntary globalization'.... is that still okay?

as far as the gender issues, i'm not too impressed with the (rushed) draft constitution, with its large concessions to sharia law.... seems quite aways off from the original intent.

i'm not saying that anyone should retreat into a hole. for as big as this planet is, some 25-thousand-plus miles in circumference and seven-billion or so in population, we are all called out. but i cannot abide the rampant greed which seems to have propelled this operation, right from the start. there has to be another way.

[knip]

i certainly agree there are better ways

[hester_prynne]

It's a bogus war and we all know it, we're all watching it, we all have our reactions, braying like donkeys, sitting on our asses.

The biggest reaction in my heart, is that this has got to end now, that Bushko must be relieved of his stolen duty now, and why hasn't this happened yet!. I am ashamed it has come to this. I have and continue to feel this way since the get-go.

Whatever the Iraqi's want, (and who knows for sure anymore what they want with all of our meddling), it's not up to us to define it for them and impose it. It's not our job. Our involvement there is full of hidden agendas, full of underestimating a nation of people for our own imagined gain, led by one man's hugely obvious oedipus complex-driven personality disorder.

And Osama Bin Ladin was there to open the door to this folly. Most likely he was in cahoots with Bush, however remotely. Actions speak louder than bullshit. Remember him anyone? That guy that took the twin towers down and murdered thousands of Americans right here in NYC? The one who George used to whip up your patriotic fervor, then let go???????

And how in the hell can we be sure that Iraqi women want the Americans there? If, and I presume there are, women in Iraq who can read, why the hell would they want what American women supposedly have? Do they want to emulate Laura Bush? Harriet Miers? Condolezza Rice? Lord help us.

Women in America don't have it THAT great. We are born second class citizens here, and most of us willingly rise, (or should I say fall), into the role. (Heaven forbid we scare the men, and really utilize our powers!)

This is not about improving the lives of Iraqi women, that's a big doofass lie! A big juicy lie meant to compell us all into believing we're "doing good". yep. uh huh.

Well tell me, think about it, how good is it here for women really?
Sure, there are glaring comparisons we can make on how it is better in some ways for women in America, but really, deep down, how much better is it for women in America? I mean here we are, divebombing backwards, the hidden agenda for reversing Roe Vs. Wade gaining strength, and if you don't see it you're blind! And what next right, will be taken, after this one? And so on, and so on and so on.........
ARrrrrrrgghhhhhhhhhh!
H

[Traveller13]

"(How long have you been in the Antarctic?)"
Oh, not that long
a couple of 'days' maybe :p
no, more than that
you know that Nanook character in the Frank Zappa song?
it was me



Ju, you're magic~



"dunno traveller...based on my conversations with many shopkeepers (which are primarily migrant workers in most middle east countries) and people of the countries themselves, in oman, bahrain, and the UAE, people do want democracy...although they want an islamic version of democracry "
Yeah, exactly. The model used in Irak is the same that was used on Canada. Kind of a difference there.
Also, there's democracy and democracy. I don't find the American model, for example (the one that claims itself the "most democratic"), to be a democracy. The only democratic thing you can do is vote for a person who will decide who's going to give all the orders for 4 years (it's 4 years right?). There are no official syndicates, no intermediates between the leaders and the people. Every party isn't even represented, which probably explains the massive abstension percentages for every election.
It decided to go to war against a country in a totally undemocratic way, not listening to the world majority (about 99 against 1, was it?), not listening to the American people.
But then again it wasn't the first time, was it?


"but based on first-hand conversations, i am reasonably comfortable that, in general, iraqi women want the US there and iraqi men do not "
Where did you hear those conversations?


P.S: Mc Gregor says hi

[mtmynd]

Quite the handsome lad, that McGregor!

[jimboloco]

What kind of example are we?

Washington (Iraq News Agency)-- A delegation of Iraqi judges and journalists abruptly left the U.S. today, cutting short its visit to study the workings of American democracy. A delegation spokesman said the Iraqis were “bewildered” by some of the behavior of the Bush administration and felt it was best to limit their exposure to the U.S. system at this time, when Iraq is taking its first baby steps towards democracy.

The lead Iraqi delegate, Muhammad Mithaqi, a noted secular Sunni judge, said that he was stunned when he heard President Bush telling Republicans that one reason they should support Harriet Miers for the U.S. Supreme Court was because of “her religion.” She is described as a devout evangelical Christian.

Mithaqi said that after being lectured for two years by U.S. diplomats in Baghdad about the need to separate “mosque from state” in the new Iraq, he was also floored to read that the former Whitewater prosecutor Kenneth Starr, now a law school dean, said on the radio show of the conservative James Dobson that Miers deserved support because she was “a very, very strong Christian [who] should be a source of great comfort and assistance to people of households of faith around the country.”

“Now let me get this straight,” Mithaqi said. “You are lecturing s about keeping religion out of politics, and then your own president and conservative legal scholars go and tell your public to endorse Miers as a Supreme Court justice because she is an evangelical Christian.

“How would you feel if you picked up your newspapers next week and read that the president of Iraq justified the appointment of an Iraqi Supreme Court justice by telling Iraqis, ‘Don’t pay attention to his lack of legal expertise. Pay attention to the fact that he is a Muslim fundamentalist and prays at a Sunni-funded Wahhabi mosque.’ Is that the Iraq that you sent your sons to build and to die for? I don’t think so. We can’t have our people exposed to such talk.”

A fellow delegation member, Abdul Wahab al-Unfi, a Shitie lawyer who walks with a limp today as a result of torture in a Saddam prison, said he did not want to spend another day in Washington after listening to the Bush team defend its right to use torture in Iraq and Afghanistan. Unfi said he heartened by the fact that the Senate voted 90-9 to ban U.S. torture of military prisoners. But he was depressed by reports that the White House might veto the bill because of that amendment, which would ban “cruel, inhuman or degrading” treatment of POW’s.

“I survived eight years of torture under Saddam,” Unfi said. “Virtually every extended family in Iraq has someone who was tortured or killed in a Baathist prison. Yet, already more that 100 prisoners of war have died in U.S. custody. How is that possible from the greatest democracy in the world? There must be no place for torture in the future Iraq. We are going home now because I don’t want our delegation corrupted by all this American right-to-torture talk.”

Finally, the delegation member Sahaf al-Sahafi, editor of one of Iraq’s new newspapers, said he wanted to go home after watching a televised videoconference last Thursday between soldiers in Iraq and Bush. The soldiers, 10 Americans and an Iraqi, were coached by a Pentagon aide on how to respond to Bush.

“I had nightmares watching this,” Sahafa said. “It was right from the Saddam playbook. I was particularly upset to hear the Iraqi sergeant major, Akeel Shakir Nasser, tell Mr. Bush, “Thank you very much for everything. I like you.” It was exactly the kind of staged encounter that Saddam used to have with his troops.”

Sahafi said he was also floored to see the U.S. Government Accountability Office, a non-partisan agency that works for Congress, declare that a Bush Administration contract that paid Armstrong Williams, a supposedly independent commentator, to promote Bush’s No Child Left Behind policy constituted illegal propaganda.

“Saddam bought and paid journalists all over the Arab world,” Sahafi said. “It makes me sick to see that in America.”

By coincidence, the Iraqi delegates departed Washington just as the Bush aide Karen Hughes returned from the Middle East. Her trip was aimed at improving America’s image among Muslims by giving them a more accurate view of America and Bush. She said, “The more they know us, the more they will like us.”

(Yes, all of this is a fake news story. I just wish that it weren’t so true.”
Thomas L. Friedman, New York Times last week.

Typed from the Thursday, Oct. 20, ’05 St Pete Times.

[e_dog]

for some takes on the issue of the withdrawal method, see

www.democracynow.org

the November 2 show's final segment.

[gypsyjoker]

Nothing going to happen to 2006. If it was me I would say bring them home now.

Thanks traveller, good copy.

Jimbo I think Bush's dream is an apocalyptic nightmare. . An alternate reality of the born again, its da rapture mon. Friedman nailed it. I been paying a lot of attention to Barbara Boxer only 29 democratic senators had the integrity to vote against the war. She sounds like she is ready to make her move. Clean house in the democratic party. She says it could happen in 2006. Get to the bottom of it and throw the bums out on their ass, make them do the perp walk for high crimes and treason against the american people. I tell you she sounds pissed. but she has a strong voice she can say it so it don't sound like a squeal, I think she will resonate with men too. Just call me pollyanna cowboy

e-dog bring them home now, if only

[whimsicaldeb]

JB - thank you for posting the full version of "What Kind of An Example Are We"