The HYPOCRATS

[Totenkopf]

1) Re: "Reverend Obama". Unfortunately, that is what it's come down to. A candidate must wear the Christian God on his or her sleeve at times to gain truer electability. Protestants preferred please. An openly gay candidate spouting scripture would have a better chance of winning than an agnostic or an atheist. Now I don't know the true extent and depth of BO's Xtian faith, but do the math. You want to be Prez, you gotta walk the Xtian walk, or at least talk the Xtian talk.

BO's done more than placate Xtians: he shakes hands with fundamentalists. He attends a church which promotes creationism. He more or less said the 1st Amendment was malleable and has quite a bit of pull in muslim community. He took in more shekels from religious organizations than any other candidate (GOP included). He proclaimed his love for Jee-zuss from protestant pulpits all of Fall '07. Google a bit, and you will discover that many churches are rallying for Obama.

Hillary's record on civil liberties/secularism rates superior to that of BO.

[e_dog]

Voter, Vote NOTA.


(None of the above.)

[Totenkopf]

Yeah, that's the best choice, rally. NOTA. And superior to a vote for BO. Maybe Nader will enter and monkeywrench a bit.

[mnaz]

BO's done more than placate Xtians: he shakes hands with fundamentalists. He attends a church which promotes creationism.

Well, that could be shrewd campaigning, I imagine. As stated, I don't know much about his long-term Xtian background. And as far as I know, most if not all churches promote creationism. If you're going to church at all, you're going to an institution which promotes creationism, and that's cool-- freedom of religion and all. But this doesn't necessarily prove that his Admin. would have an Xtian theocratic agenda, does it?

... and has quite a bit of pull in muslim community. He took in more shekels from religious organizations than any other candidate (GOP included).

Again, none of the above proves he can't or won't separate church and state once in office.

[Totenkopf]

It's relevant. Obama has gone out of his way to appeal to religious people. It may be all part of his shrewd campaign: that's the problem. It's even worse if his supposed faith is just a marketing strategy.

[mnaz]

Kissing religious butt is a staple of campaigning in this fine Xtian republic-- quite common, done all the time. I suspect it's only a problem if you reject his candidacy for other reasons. Civil liberties? Is that the biggest red flag? Well, I suppose I should look into that. I confess I really haven't followed the campaign all that closely.

It's conceivable that the religious angle is problematic. The last seven years should be one gigantic red flag in that regard. However, to me it seems the last seven years were essentially a case of corporatist greed "pimping" the religious vote. Evangelicals switching parties would seem evidence of that sort of bait and switch. Perhaps O'Bama is returning the favor from the left side of the spectrum... The Dems have no doubt been taking notes...

[hester_prynne]

I sense there is a fear factor, of Obama here.
Want to talk about it?

H

[Totenkopf]

No fear. Some of us just don't care for biblethumpers, however PC they might appear. Neither did, say, Ezra Pound.

[e_dog]

in the timeless words of Kurt Cobain:

"I prefer to wear pajamas ..........MARIJUANA!"

[mnaz]

I, for one, have no problem with a religious President, as long as he/she for the most part keeps it out of his/her politics and administration, and governs reasonably intelligently, not putting multinational corporate interests and the God Squad agenda ahead of truer national priorities. It's unrealistic to expect that we should never have a religious President. In fact, it seems highly unlikely that a self-professed non-Christian could ever win the White House. Realistically, it has been proven (especially in the last two elections) that the evangel./fundy vote is important to winning the Presidency; thus, Obama had better come across as a strong Christian if he's serious about winning, especially given persistent rumors of his Muslim background (in reality, he's always been Xtian-- he only lived for a few years in a Muslim country as a child). You know sooner or later that the religious bigots will come out of the woodwork. I'm surprised we haven't seen more of that already.

I get a sense with Obama and all his talk about more transparent government that he is capable of separating church and state, whereas the GOP has an extremely poor track record in this regard. This POV either makes me "naive", or a pragmatic realist of sorts. I prefer to think of it as the latter.

note: edited for typos and to clarify Obama's background.

[e_dog]

Israeli security is "sacrosanct."

What's that mean for BarakObama?

[e_dog]

Maybe weshould callhim Ehud Barak O'bama, the jewish irish lad from chicaago.

[stilltrucking]

I don't know what he means either. Not even sure I know what sacrosanct means. Something like this: The social security trust fund is sacrosanct?


I may not vote but I am enjoying the campaign. Michelle Called last week but I have not heard from Bill yet.

I am still trying to decide if it is worth voting here in Texas next week. I suppose I will just for a chance to get out of this apartment, I will probably skip the general election in November. This is McCain country no doubt. Niether one of them got a chance hear. Maybe it will depend on the VP spot. The ideal running mate, an afro american nun from texas named goldberg.

On an unrelated note

I thought he looked presidential in those african robes, I would like to see him stride across the deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln in them.










It is american as apple pie for our presidents to dress up in native garb.
Everyday is Halloween for the Comander in Chief.

[hester_prynne]

I do think that Obama is more capable to create a more transparent and less partisan government by bringing people together instead facilitating separation as they generally do now. I think he can do this because he is a newcomer. It could be anyone, as long as they were not part of the current system. That is the change he brings and he says so. He says he could be anybody, as long as they are new and not part of the old and therefor can facilitate change and accountability in the government.

I think his vision for this is right on and I think we will all benefit by a government that is on the same page as the people and less attached to special interests and favors. There is no hope for anyone if it's all favors and promises being made on the inside and not visible to the people, meaning you and me and us. His idea for providing government visibility to the people is really good, and is neccessary especially if we are going to be giving elected officials power over us..we have a right to see what they are doing! I don't hear anyone saying this and this kind of thing except Obama. I applaud him and admire his guts to do it. Hillary and McCain are going the usual path, put him down, lie if you have to, just get it into the people's heads or we might all be naked soon! Damn well as it should be!!!!!!

It's a fresh start right there! No one offers anything that can compare to it.
H

[e_dog]

Sen. Hillary Clinton: “You should have a president again who actually gets up thinking about you every day, who knows that people in southeastern Ohio are, as Ted tells me all the time, salt-of-the-earth great people. Most Americans are doing the best we can, and we need those partners, and we need a president who’s a fighter and a doer and a champion for the American people again, and that is what I will do.”

DemocracyNow.org

There's another quote where Hillary says something like, "You need a president who will get up every day ...[pause] and fight for you."

insinuating like that Barak is too lazy to get up in the morning. Can you find it stilltru' with your research skillz?



but also:

Sen. Hillary Clinton: “I don’t get up every morning to go out and make a great speech, shake a million hands and then go to bed at night and say good for you. I go out to say, ‘What can I do for you? How can I make your country what it should be?’ When the woman said to me, ‘How do you do that?’ I really felt touched by that, and I think we did connect in a very personal level."

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/1/10/headlines#11