Barak in Berlin

[mnaz]

They've dumbed it down for us. Q: What's the alternative? A: Not much. I'll cast my lot with this hopelessly inexperienced wall tearer-downer. Shit, what do I have to lose at this point?

[panta rhei]

people of the world, look at me -- latest translation of the recent articles on spiegel.de (july 25, 2008):

http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 32,00.html

[jimboloco]

the der spiegle beagle articles both take with a sort of chagrin the grandstanding by the o man.
the first says that her wants to be th prez of th world
th second says that he is merely showing off, getting attention.

the first one shows an insecurity about american power, and needs to be addressed as a misinterpretation of the o man's exhortations towards a better world citizenry.

the second, ah well, that's show biz.

i mean, the returning home of the national guard, the reserves, man.
he gots it down, man

i heard it said that mccain might not be able to last for th entire campaign

shit i woulda gone to like wyoming
and buried my head in jackson hole

[mtmynd]

panta : "the world would not need him to come as a demander, though, acting like the big good chieftain... no "pull together with me, or else you're out / killjoys / the bad guys /..."

i understand what you're saying here, but! where did Obama ever say, or even imply, anything like that? nothing I've heard him say ever gave me the impression that he is a demander of any kind. I think it's a mistake for many, many people that fear or distrust this man by assuming he is anything more than inspiring... one of the only politicians in the world today that has the charisma to inspire... a wonderful trait that anyone should embrace, albeit cautiously to make themselves feel better.

i feel deeply that Barack Obama is one of those rare individuals that speak honestly and will be better than a politician... he will be a leader. everything about this man - his background, his race, his children, his responsibility to country, those that have elected him, his friends, family and associates - all these things and more are important to him and I am convinced that he'll do nothing to lessen the faith others have in him to do the right thing... run the country honestly, securely and as well as any leader could possibly do.

but don't worry, panta. our country is notorious for electing fools and thieves into office for the past two elections and this one could just as easily follow the same idiotic path. we'd rather be a safe country than a smart country.

[panta rhei]

jim:

the second, ah well, that's show biz.

excatly. that's what suspect about it.
politics ain't no show biz around here...


cecil --

panta : "the world would not need him to come as a demander, though, acting like the big good chieftain... no "pull together with me, or else you're out / killjoys / the bad guys /..."

i understand what you're saying here, but! where did Obama ever say, or even imply, anything like that? nothing I've heard him say ever gave me the impression that he is a demander of any kind

as for the demands -- see schmitz' article linked above:

but then he also spoke of the demands people in Europe had been expecting in his speech:


More European aid in Afghanistan. "America can not do this alone," he said. "The Afghan people need our troops and your troops."


Additional European support in Iraq: "The whole world should support the millions of Iraqis who seek to rebuild their lives, even as we pass responsibility to the Iraqi government and finally bring this war to a close."


Greater European participation in the war on terror -- which won't end under a President Obama, either. "If we could create NATO to face down the Soviet Union, we can join in a new and global partnership to dismantle the networks that have struck in Madrid and Amman; in London and Bali; in Washington and New York."

and as for your other hopes and trusts in obama - i hope the same, just as most europeans do.
yes, he could follow an idiotic path. but he could also follow the wise one!

we all hope for the good.

[mtmynd]

panta... i just saw the second article. after reading it is was struck how this reporter seems so much like our countries Conservative Republicans... very sarcastic towards their opponents no matter what they say and how many people applaud them.

i was also struck by his comment regarding Obama's call for assistance in fighting the very real war on terror... his call for help in Afghanistan. The reporter didn't especially favor that by saying -
"But what, precisely, is that supposed to mean? How many troops in Afghanistan? What kind of support for Iraq? And what will his new strategy against terrorists entail?"

I'm quite sure Obama would never tell your government how many troops you should send or give you a list of support systems. The reporter's comments are plainly sarcastic. But that's a reporter for you...

[panta rhei]

let me tell you, cecil, this article above is quite a positive one compared to a lot of other articles about american politicians in general and particular!

and of course the author doesn't favour obama's call or demands for sending our troops out into other countries. he rather worries about that kind of claim (i do, too)...

whether these claims will become just calls or suggestions to particpiate in his way to change the world, or will become demands or even pressurising mediums (in whatever way) later will remain to be seen.

to express one's ideas and suggestions and visions is a good thing. if that's what he's doing here - good for all of us!


(and now i have to go to sleep. it's 2 a.m, and my eyes are beginning to fall apart... or into my brain... or sumfin. good night for now!)

[Doreen Peri]

Here's the speech. I'm watching it now.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Q-9ry38AhbU&hl ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Q-9ry38AhbU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Will be back to comment further after I see the whole thing.

[Doreen Peri]

Wow.

I am speechless. I have a science fiction movie yet to be written running through my head.

Here's the movie... (fictional, of course)

He's too perfect. He actually isn't human. No human being can memorize that much text without referring to notes. No real human has that much command over the history and language. He's a hollagram. Projected flesh and blood. His history was concocted from some computer program where the most attractive attributes of a world leader were sorted out. He's really a computer and he's been programmed to bring the New World Order into being. He will be the President of the World. The President of the New World Order. There will be attempts at uprisings to quell this event, but it can't be stopped. This has been in the works for many years. (It's just a paranoia movie, btw, so don't panic.. this isn't real.... I don't think... ... but I certainly can get inspired by the speech to write such a screenplay... I know I know.. I've watched and read too much science fiction *smile*)

But seriously.... If he's for real, great! I love most of the things he says. I even love the concept of "world citizenry" since we ARE all citizens of the world. Somehow, though, when he said it, I got a little shiver up my spine. I got concerned that my movie screenplay scenario might be partially true!

Anyway, panta... thanks for sharing your links and your thoughts. All this was really just to say that I get the point the author of the article was trying to make.

I'll keep watching this thread to see what others think.

Thanks for allowing me to express my imagination.

(oh shit, now i'm paranoid as hell.. lol... really!!...but i'm just kidding... I think *smile*)

[panta rhei]

thanks for posting the whole speech right into ths thread, doreen - that's a great addition to our exchange!

obama's speech is rhetorically brilliant and adresses his audience perfectly (the europeans by showing them he's not the ignorant and self-centered american, the americans by showing them he's the man the world listens to), his voice is clear and charismatic, and he's got a great smile.

the visons he speaks of are wonderful. but what else could he speak of?
of course he speaks about about a better partnership, about environmental and economic issues... hell, he wants to be loved! he wants to be elected!

his speech was a show, and a good one. it shows he is smart. and intelligent. and charismatic. and if he uses all that for more than just being the star of the media and the campaign, if it all is not just means to win the election, if the visions he speaks of are truly his visions and not only mediums of hustings, if he has a humane and righteous heart and mind, if he is able to stay honest and true, then he's the man.

what he definitely is: the most promising and auspicious hope the world has for an american president right now.

good luck, obama. be da man!


here is an article about some of the voices of german newspapers about his speech:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 91,00.html

[Doreen Peri]

Just a couple of quick comments as I have to go out right now, but I'll be back to talk more later.

the visons he speaks of are wonderful. but what else could he speak of?
of course he speaks about about a better partnership, about environmental and economic issues... hell, he wants to be loved! he wants to be elected!

Well, he's not running for public office in Germany. He's wants to be elected, yeah, but this was a speech in Berlin to the German people, not those who will be voting for him. So, yeah, he's a great orator and is definitely charismatic and of course he wants to get elected, but the things he's saying are not just a show to get elected.

He is saying things that many Americans have been saying for many years. (Only he's saying them more articulately than the dumb uneducated Americans can say them.. ahahaha... just a joke...)... But seriously, this is why he has such a huge following in America. Because he is speaking to the most important issues.

Contrary to what some citizens of other countries around the world may think of us, most Americans are not ignorant and self-centered. Well, you know that, as you've been conversing on the internet with Americans for a number of years.

Yes, he is a breath of fresh air... and a great hope for America and also for the world.

I'll read your link in a bit when I get back. Thank you!

[panta rhei]

a quick note from also, before i have to run:

1) his speech was at least as much adressed to his amercian voters at as it was adressed to the german public - it was not for nothing that only journalists from american media got short interviews with him after his berlin speech ("foreign" press was not allowed)!

2) of course i know that you know that i know that not all americans are ignorant and self-centered, just as not all europeans are... i was speaking about the cliché here, of course.

more later.

[Arcadia]

words that warm our hearts and alarm our minds, I like the image and I think it´s great that a german journalist could write that!!!!!!

as an old adagio says here: "let´s see where his feet go more than where his words go"

[panta rhei]

interesting concept about the romantic democrats and the common-sense democrats:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 21,00.html

[mtmynd]

Gabor Steingart, you prattle on like so many journalists about your favorite topic of the times, Barack Obama, a man who the world cannot keep their eyes or ears away from, regardless of their political affiliations, regardless of their country of origin, regardless of their religion.

Is this man, Obama, a Senator simply a politician like every politician? Or is this man much more than meets the eye? No matter who you are, no matter what side of the political fence you inhabit, no matter what news media you write for, no matter what side of the talk radio you babble thru, this much cannot be ignored - Barack Obama is a man that people listen to... taken away by his ability to orate like no other in years (Bill Clinton maybe was close, but no comparison...), even if there is little to no agreement with his words.

The number one thing about Obama is the magic of his speeches : they do what no other politician, no other celebrity on the public stage, no other well-known person today can do and that one word is "inspire." His words are an inspiration and not simply for a chosen few... his words on some level can only inspire the listener and many times, so much so that the listener automatically feels they are being duped.. "How can anyone say these things and believe them? How does Obama inspire but yet remain so cool, calm and collected? There has got to be something wrong with this guy.." Skeptics may not say these exact words but they feel what the words define.

Is it truly possible for a young man born bi-racially to a white American mother and fathered by a black Kenyan to really have the ability to run a country? Inspiration is my answer. Inspiration comes from an area within us, in this case Obama, that does not question or doubt but envisions a world that is much better than what is outwardly visible... a country and a world that not only dreams, but by necessity demands a global effort to ensure health, safety, and freedom from ignorance and poverty to fulfill more than the pockets of a few, but to fulfill a promise to mankind that these things will come to fruition some day and that day is closer than we, ourselves, may imagine. The inspired know the future is in our own hands and for the sheer love of living, the hands that give will receive infinitely more than what they have given.

What do you want to leave your grandchildren?