Escalation of the war in Afghanistan

[Doreen Peri]

Probably most people don't even want to talk about this stuff. I probably just ruined your dinner, too. Sorry.

[stilltrucking]

No I could stand to miss a few meals. Good to talk about it. It sure has been on my mind.

I don't think you are in the least bit disrespectuful Doreen.

But maybe we should all go out and buy one of those 98 cent yellow magnetic ribbons that says "Support Our Troops" and stick it on our car so that noone questions our patriotism.

Obama is such a relief after Bush I cut him a lot of slack. Maybe too much.

Eyelidlessness had a good thread about our all volunteer military.
I will search for it and kick it up again. I think it would be timely

And John Prine was singing
"Your plastic flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore
There already over crowded from your dirty little war"

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[SadLuckDame]

I think I just accept war as part of life, always has been. Or more than war it's death that's part of life and torment, pain, everybody's got a demon to fight except the innocent children. It's kids that I've always felt for most. Every day I see a new beat up kids face, or hear a sad tale from their little mouths. That eats me alive. I think of my Grandma, she died in her 80's thinking she was still 4 and being pained.

Also, I get teary reading about the Salem Witch trials, reading Bury my Heart on Wounded Knee, pain in all of history, pain now and pain to come. Only thing to do is wrestle with the internal demons. Over come from within, if possible. I'm still battling mine. It starts inside first, it's the only thing I've learned. Wish I could be more soothing or helpful here.

[Doreen Peri]

I cut him a lot of slack, too, after Bush.

After all, Obama is articulate, intelligent, seemingly wise, gentle, soft spoken, well educated, worldly, calm, and has what I believe to be heartfelt emotions about what's right and wrong.... TOTALLY different in ALL of these traits than Bush.

He is a HUGE relief to America and the entire WORLD from the embarrassment of the 8-year Bush administration.

But I'm a pacifist. I HOPE for too much, maybe. That said, I don't think peace is impossible ... and in our lifetimes, too. I believe in peace and feel that it CAN be accomplished. It has to do with the human race evolving. And to say, "We gotta get them before we get us" is going backwards in evolution. It's just plain bullshit.

It appears to me that Obama has crumbled under the advice of various military advisors and succumbed to what he was being told. Maybe I'm WAY wrong, though, and this was his plan the whole time. After all, he DID mention this in his campaign.

I think it was a mistake for him to give that speech to an audience of soldiers, by the way. Who was he trying to convince? They're already convinced. They volunteered. It was clearly staged and for what purpose? To show the American citizens like you and me that he has military supporters?

No, it wasn't for the American citizens at all. It wasn't to convince US. It was a staged audience for the purpose of the World Stage. To show the world that the US is a powerful nation with lots of soldiers.

I don't dig that type of staging.

I would put a bumper sticker on my car that says ... "Support Our Troops. Keep Them Home or Send them Home."

Maybe I'm naive. I admit that could be. But I treasure my naivity and my idealism. I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world.

I remember that John Prine song... good tune! I loved John Prine!

[Barry]

But, Doreen, surely you understand...It's disrespectful to anyone to say, "You're brainwashed." Or "they're brainwashed" or whatever.

They don't think they're brainwashed. You do.

So who's right and who's wrong?

[Barry]

Not war as a part of life...people who use violence to meet their aims. As long as there have been people this has been so, and as long as there are people it will be so. It's an unfortunate reality that ain't going away. We just have to manage it somehow.

Peace,
Barry

[Doreen Peri]

I think I just accept war as part of life, always has been. Or more than war it's death that's part of life and torment, pain, everybody's got a demon to fight except the innocent children. It's kids that I've always felt for most. Every day I see a new beat up kids face, or hear a sad tale from their little mouths. That eats me alive. I think of my Grandma, she died in her 80's thinking she was still 4 and being pained.

Hi SLD! That's where I differ... I don't think it has to be a part of life. But the rest of your paragraph I agree with. We all have torments, pain, demons, etc. I hate to hear of kids being hurt! I mean, I hate it HUGE! Eats me alive, too. Sorry to hear about your grandma's memories coming back to haunt her when she was dying. That's so sad. We never get over abuse. Ever.

Also, I get teary reading about the Salem Witch trials, reading Bury my Heart on Wounded Knee, pain in all of history, pain now and pain to come. Only thing to do is wrestle with the internal demons. Over come from within, if possible. I'm still battling mine. It starts inside first, it's the only thing I've learned. Wish I could be more soothing or helpful here.

Very true. All of history is riddled with pain... those were good examples.

I agree, it all starts from within. I'm still battling mine, too.

You touched me with all you said. How much more soothing can you get? Thank you!

[Doreen Peri]

But, Doreen, surely you understand...It's disrespectful to anyone to say, "You're brainwashed." Or "they're brainwashed" or whatever.

They don't think they're brainwashed. You do.

So who's right and who's wrong?

Yes, it's ME who thinks they're brainwashed. I mean no disrespect whatsoever. It's not their fault, in my opinion.

Who's wrong? In my opinion, anybody who believes it's OK to kill other people is wrong. They can't help it. Someone convinced them that it's OK to kill other people and they signed on to learn how... professionally.

Just my opinion, of course. I really truly mean no disrespect to them at all.

Btw, that's part of the definition of being brainwashed. Not to think you've been brainwashed.

It's an unfortunate reality that ain't going away. We just have to manage it somehow.

Bigtime disagree. Why isn't it going away? It's not going away because people accept it as an unfortunate reality.

I don't.

If you stop and other people stop and we spread the word to STOP accepting it as an unfortunate reality, maybe it will STOP being accepted!

See what I mean? Sure you do.

[one of those jerks]

I am still looking for Jason's thread

I remember I posted this to it

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[SadLuckDame]

We go to heal the children. They walk into schools, day cares, Sunday School, into the neighborhoods, and most have scars already, we go to them, we look in their eyes and let them know they're going to heal and at that time in your care they're safe, they're free and that you'll listen if need be or you'll hold their hand in the dark if they're scared or whatever means you can reach them...because kids are getting scarred still, everyday a new one.

[stilltrucking]

This is worth reading. If you ignore my inane replies that is.
Afghanistan Eyewitness Report By Tilly on Studio Eight on March 24,2005

We had a chance to do some good eight years ago. Now the women and children of Afghanistan are paying the price for our electing that son of a bitch bush TWICE

[Barry]

I understand what you're saying, Doreen. I get what you illustrate. It would be nice if everyone just stopped killing, but they won't. They never will. This is not a cynical defeatist position. It's reality. Nothing in existence is 100%. Nothing anywhere anytime. Always there will be some who get it and some who don't. Even if the some who don't is less than 1%, that's still a lot of people. It's that some who don't get it that the ones who do will have be faced with managing somehow. That's why security forces, "brainwashed hired killers" as you term them, will always be necessary. The hope is that with the rise of globalism and the end of nationalism these security forces will become less and smaller, taking less of the budget, amounting to police forces in a sense. Then all that money that went to "national defense" can be put to better use. The security forces will only be there to manage the few who do not get it. Like the Taliban and Al Qaida, small collectives the greater collective will always have to deal with.

Peace,
Barry

[Doreen Peri]

I understand what you're saying, Doreen. I get what you illustrate. It would be nice if everyone just stopped killing, but they won't. They never will. This is not a cynical defeatist position. It's reality.

As long as people believe it won't stop, it won't stop. *shrug*

This IS a cynical defeatist position. You and many others in the world have resigned themselves to what you perceive as a "fact" ... that killing will never stop.

When in fact, if people change their perception and refuse to accept this statement as fact, the world will begin to change. One person at a time. From the inside perception outward.

"Never" is a 100% word. "Nothing in existence is 100%" - your own words.

I believe human beings have the capacity to live peacefully and to stop killing each other. It is NOT an impossible dream. It CAN happen!

.......

I'm also interested in someone attempting to answer the questions I posed about what the purpose is in the escalation of this war.

I really want to know the answers to those questions.

[Doreen Peri]

"You must be the change you want to see in the world." – Mahatma Gandhi

[stilltrucking]

Do you mean the question your daughter asked about why is he sending the troops?
I think the original purpose of the war was to go after the Osama Binn Laughing (at us) and the Al-Qaeda bases in Afghanistan.
But you knew that.

As I understand it now there are fewer than 100 Al-Qaeda left there.

Does the presence of 100 al Qaeda terrorists in Afghanistan justify the new military escalation?
http://www.cnn.com/2009/OPINION/12/02/g ... e.mission/

The only answer I can think of is politics Doreen. It is politic for him to send the troops. We got an election coming up next year.

Unless we have a moral obligation to help the people of Afghanistan after doing our bit to trash their country.