What a creepy story. And it's all over the news.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=4581943&page=1
OK, first off, this is NOT a man! This is a woman who has a beard!
She was born a woman and she's still a woman.
She has a uterus, for crissake!
I wonder does she still have a vagina? or will the baby be delivered by cesarrian section (sorry can't spell that).
Don't you all find this story to be not only bizarre but sensationalist?
Why are they going public with this? I bet I know why. MONEY!
I really feel sorry for the kid. Can you imagine what it will be like for this kid to grow up?
"man" gets pregnant
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Doreen Peri
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Last edited by Dave The Dov on March 24th, 2009, 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I didn´t see that in our news (maybe so busy with other things!) but I read the titular in yahoo and I thought it was a joke about the Californian governor (really!).
For what I read in this link is not a man, it is a transgender. If they really desire the baby and will take care of him/her and they don´t care about ADN I think it´s ok!. I´m not in the position to judge them!!
For what I read in this link is not a man, it is a transgender. If they really desire the baby and will take care of him/her and they don´t care about ADN I think it´s ok!. I´m not in the position to judge them!!
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Doreen Peri
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I guess I'm just ignorant. I don't understand how a human being can be both a man and a woman. And if the person has a uterous and is carrying a baby, to me it's a woman.... taking male hormones which is why she has a beard.
Sorry. I don't mean to appear judgmental. I truly do think about the child and feel the child will have problems related to this. It's hard enough to grow up in the world without being the first baby born from a transgender man.
Sorry. I don't mean to appear judgmental. I truly do think about the child and feel the child will have problems related to this. It's hard enough to grow up in the world without being the first baby born from a transgender man.
yeah, it´s also difficult to understand for me too in a phisical way (I´m also personally against semen-banks and for real fathers 
) but there are lot of babies that come to this world, really lots in a first sight (even second, third and so on...) not favorable circunmstances... is this case so different? maybe, maybe not, who knows?
) but there are lot of babies that come to this world, really lots in a first sight (even second, third and so on...) not favorable circunmstances... is this case so different? maybe, maybe not, who knows?-
Doreen Peri
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In my opinion this case is very different.
Though the children don't know who the father is when sperm is donated, they do know they were born like every other child... through their mother's womb.
I honestly don't know where the sperm came from in this case. Was it donated? Or did he get himself pregnant? Now THAT would be VERY weird!
(joking, I don't think that's possible. I don't think a transgender man who used to be a woman can produce sperm).
So, this is again probably a case of donated sperm. What's different about this case is that it is the "father" who is carrying the child, not the mother. I can't imagine telling a child, "guess what? your father used to be a woman! And not only that, he was the one who carried you before you were born. Look at these photos when he was pregnant with you!"
This, to me, could be psychologically damaging to a child. It would have to be! It's tooo weird!
Hate to say it but I agree with Dave the Dov. It's almost circus freak show stuff!
Though the children don't know who the father is when sperm is donated, they do know they were born like every other child... through their mother's womb.
I honestly don't know where the sperm came from in this case. Was it donated? Or did he get himself pregnant? Now THAT would be VERY weird!
(joking, I don't think that's possible. I don't think a transgender man who used to be a woman can produce sperm).So, this is again probably a case of donated sperm. What's different about this case is that it is the "father" who is carrying the child, not the mother. I can't imagine telling a child, "guess what? your father used to be a woman! And not only that, he was the one who carried you before you were born. Look at these photos when he was pregnant with you!"
This, to me, could be psychologically damaging to a child. It would have to be! It's tooo weird!
Hate to say it but I agree with Dave the Dov. It's almost circus freak show stuff!
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hester_prynne
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Wait a minute wilber.
P.T. would never have stooped to this.
This is wacky, self-indulgence due to too much free time and too many choices. I think it's akin to the use of botox and vanity surgery type stuff.
These are two cons willing to go to ghastly lengths to get attention and money.
Indeed, they will be rich because so many people are so vapid they eat this stuff up and it's their life! The media gets money off all the stupidity too.
People are stupid.
I think it's pretty gross.
The reality of people's stupidity definately comes painfully clear.....
Like Bill Maher said" "Evil can kill alot of people, but stupidity kills more"
H
P.T. would never have stooped to this.
This is wacky, self-indulgence due to too much free time and too many choices. I think it's akin to the use of botox and vanity surgery type stuff.
These are two cons willing to go to ghastly lengths to get attention and money.
Indeed, they will be rich because so many people are so vapid they eat this stuff up and it's their life! The media gets money off all the stupidity too.
People are stupid.
I think it's pretty gross.
The reality of people's stupidity definately comes painfully clear.....
Like Bill Maher said" "Evil can kill alot of people, but stupidity kills more"
H
"I am a victim of society, and, an entertainer"........DW
Mr. Thomas Beatie is F2M, meaning he was born a woman but is currently transitioning into a man. And frankly, I don't see how this is anymore shocking than a lesbian couple choosing to have a child, except one chooses to express his gender as a man. I'm sure that his wife Nancy would have had the child, but she had her uterus removed.
The only important thing here is that the child has loving parents, which is more than I can say about some hetero parents. I'm sure that they aren't going to wave pictures of her father preganant in her/his face while she/he is growing up. So unless you think lesbians, gay, or queer couples shouldn't be parents. . .?
I don't think you get paid to go on Oprah. I'm sure the reason you're unaware of the trans community is every time someone tries to bring it up, they're called circus freaks and cons.
I'm not saying that you should agree with it, or condone it, or even feel comfortable with it. To be honest, I don't even know how I feel about it. But its not because I regard them as freaks or cons, but as human beings. And for the record, I have trans friends, so I do find those comments insulting. You can still disagree with their actions, but have some respect.
(please don't be offended by my tone in this. I tried to avoid coming off as antagonistic, but I know parts of it read like that nevertheless.)
The only important thing here is that the child has loving parents, which is more than I can say about some hetero parents. I'm sure that they aren't going to wave pictures of her father preganant in her/his face while she/he is growing up. So unless you think lesbians, gay, or queer couples shouldn't be parents. . .?
I don't think you get paid to go on Oprah. I'm sure the reason you're unaware of the trans community is every time someone tries to bring it up, they're called circus freaks and cons.
I'm not saying that you should agree with it, or condone it, or even feel comfortable with it. To be honest, I don't even know how I feel about it. But its not because I regard them as freaks or cons, but as human beings. And for the record, I have trans friends, so I do find those comments insulting. You can still disagree with their actions, but have some respect.
(please don't be offended by my tone in this. I tried to avoid coming off as antagonistic, but I know parts of it read like that nevertheless.)
Ok, now that I've been awake for a little bit, and have gotten all the emotional/subjective thoughts out of the way, I'd just like to make the following points:
1) It was donated sperm, and the 'father' still has a vagina. So as far as anyone can know, the child will be born the same as anyone else, even if it does involve a c-section. I guess ultimately I don't see this as different from any other artificial insemination process.
2) Yes, the child may have a hard time growing up, but it also in part depends where the couple lives. There are some places in the U.S. (and abroad) that are much more receptive of trans lifestyle than others. Additionally, that's somewhat the same as saying any GLBT couple shouldn't be a parent due to the possible strain on their child. Any account I've heard from the child of such a relationship as been that they wouldn't have had it another way (this is not to say that I'm overly familiar with every case in existence). I'd also like to point out that this is probably not the first child from a trans couple.
edit The argument that it will be hard on the child is also used against inter-racial, inter-religious, etc. couples as well.
3) The nuclear family is a social construct, and while not an un-natural one, is certainly not the only legitimate one. There are communities where children have several mothers, where children are raised in the same house as their grandparents and uncles/aunts, all sharing the responsibility of raising them, etc. Even in the U.S., due to divorce and re-marriage, I have friends who have multiple sets of parents (though I wouldn't support this as a healthy parenting strategy). I wouldn't use the parents sexuality/gender identity as a gauge of their parental ability.
4) This couple poses to lose a lot more because of this than they will ever gain (outside of the joys of being parents). Financially and otherwise.
1) It was donated sperm, and the 'father' still has a vagina. So as far as anyone can know, the child will be born the same as anyone else, even if it does involve a c-section. I guess ultimately I don't see this as different from any other artificial insemination process.
2) Yes, the child may have a hard time growing up, but it also in part depends where the couple lives. There are some places in the U.S. (and abroad) that are much more receptive of trans lifestyle than others. Additionally, that's somewhat the same as saying any GLBT couple shouldn't be a parent due to the possible strain on their child. Any account I've heard from the child of such a relationship as been that they wouldn't have had it another way (this is not to say that I'm overly familiar with every case in existence). I'd also like to point out that this is probably not the first child from a trans couple.
edit The argument that it will be hard on the child is also used against inter-racial, inter-religious, etc. couples as well.
3) The nuclear family is a social construct, and while not an un-natural one, is certainly not the only legitimate one. There are communities where children have several mothers, where children are raised in the same house as their grandparents and uncles/aunts, all sharing the responsibility of raising them, etc. Even in the U.S., due to divorce and re-marriage, I have friends who have multiple sets of parents (though I wouldn't support this as a healthy parenting strategy). I wouldn't use the parents sexuality/gender identity as a gauge of their parental ability.
4) This couple poses to lose a lot more because of this than they will ever gain (outside of the joys of being parents). Financially and otherwise.
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Doreen Peri
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Sorry, boho.... I really did not mean to offend anyone.
I have no problem at all with a woman who feels she is really a man transitioning to a man.
I would have no problem at all for a child to be raised by this couple.
I think gays and lesbians can make great loving parents and the same goes with any couple who have any sexual identity.
The disturbing part about it to me is that the child is being carried by a "man" (someone who I think isn't really a man yet, but really is a woman because she has a uterus, despite the legal transition which has already happened).
Why? It's unnatural, for one thing. But more importantly, the social implications on the child are WAYYYY more challenging than a child being raised by a homosexual couple or ANY couple, or a single parent, or 3 people. I think you get my point. I'm not talking at all about the ability of the parents to be good parents!
This will be the first child in the history of the world (as far as I know anyway) which was born from a male body. (that is a body transitioning into a man... a person who is "legally" a male... a person who has both male and female organs).
Yes, I truly believe this child will know about her father being pregnant and giving birth to her and will be shown pictures of him when he was pregnant. I also believe her classmates will give her a VERY hard time while growing up. Children can be cruel and this situation is cruel to the child, in my opinion. Hell, it's already all over the news and the child isn't even born yet! Imagine what it's going to be like later!
If this couple wanted to have a child, since the wife cannot conceive, they should have adopted one, not put a child in a position to have difficulties and challenges which no other child in the world has ever had.
Even if raised in a community which is acceptant of transgender couples (and sure, I accept that without a problem and think all people should accept it if this is what a person decides he or she is... the opposite sex than they are born)... but even if raised in a community which is acceptant, being born from a person's body who is living as a male will cause the child unforeseen difficulties and I don't think it's right.
As for whether they have exposed this story to the media for financial gain? I would think absolutely YES. I don't know whether people get paid to go on Oprah. I know they get paid to go on the Tonight Show. It's not much but they get paid. But that's not my point. People Magazine (I think that's the magazine) reported this story initially. Do you think they got paid for the article? I don't know whether they did or not, but I would venture to guess that they did.
Even if I'm wrong.... there will be a book... or several... a movie, interviews and more. I'm sure they will make out quite handsomely financially.
Sorry, again, for having said anything that insulted anyone you know. I didn't mean to.
I'm simply expressing my honest opinion.
I hope, though we disagree about this issue, you still like me. *smile*
I have no problem at all with a woman who feels she is really a man transitioning to a man.
I would have no problem at all for a child to be raised by this couple.
I think gays and lesbians can make great loving parents and the same goes with any couple who have any sexual identity.
The disturbing part about it to me is that the child is being carried by a "man" (someone who I think isn't really a man yet, but really is a woman because she has a uterus, despite the legal transition which has already happened).
Why? It's unnatural, for one thing. But more importantly, the social implications on the child are WAYYYY more challenging than a child being raised by a homosexual couple or ANY couple, or a single parent, or 3 people. I think you get my point. I'm not talking at all about the ability of the parents to be good parents!
This will be the first child in the history of the world (as far as I know anyway) which was born from a male body. (that is a body transitioning into a man... a person who is "legally" a male... a person who has both male and female organs).
Yes, I truly believe this child will know about her father being pregnant and giving birth to her and will be shown pictures of him when he was pregnant. I also believe her classmates will give her a VERY hard time while growing up. Children can be cruel and this situation is cruel to the child, in my opinion. Hell, it's already all over the news and the child isn't even born yet! Imagine what it's going to be like later!
If this couple wanted to have a child, since the wife cannot conceive, they should have adopted one, not put a child in a position to have difficulties and challenges which no other child in the world has ever had.
Even if raised in a community which is acceptant of transgender couples (and sure, I accept that without a problem and think all people should accept it if this is what a person decides he or she is... the opposite sex than they are born)... but even if raised in a community which is acceptant, being born from a person's body who is living as a male will cause the child unforeseen difficulties and I don't think it's right.
As for whether they have exposed this story to the media for financial gain? I would think absolutely YES. I don't know whether people get paid to go on Oprah. I know they get paid to go on the Tonight Show. It's not much but they get paid. But that's not my point. People Magazine (I think that's the magazine) reported this story initially. Do you think they got paid for the article? I don't know whether they did or not, but I would venture to guess that they did.
Even if I'm wrong.... there will be a book... or several... a movie, interviews and more. I'm sure they will make out quite handsomely financially.
Sorry, again, for having said anything that insulted anyone you know. I didn't mean to.
I'm simply expressing my honest opinion.
I hope, though we disagree about this issue, you still like me. *smile*
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Dave The Dov
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What I don't get is why is this person getting on the news about it????
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hester_prynne
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I too did not intend to offend.....but I am offended about the presentation of this "miracle".
Look, I absolutely have no problem with Lesbians, Transgenders, whatever. But what does offend me is the announcement of it, the "going public" now. Why can't these things just happen without the intrusion of the media? I can't help but think that these two wanted to make some money.
Otherwise, why not wait until the child is a healthy baby, or toddler, and then tell the story? Why show pictures of a male that is pregnant when we all know this is going to cause an uproar at this stage, and controversy, and shock, etc. This is what I don't understand.
It would have been, in my opinion, much more beautiful, if the story had been told a little later, as the success I am sure it will be. There is more acceptance then, and the hoopla and fears are avoided.
The beauty that may have been a part of this story is now ruined, shocked people (like myself), will liken it to the usual circus events in our society, whereas a little containment on the part of the parents could really have opened alot of minds to more acceptance.
It just seems they sold out, which to me, makes it a contrived oddity, when it could have been something much more lastingly positive, and alot less freaky.
H
Look, I absolutely have no problem with Lesbians, Transgenders, whatever. But what does offend me is the announcement of it, the "going public" now. Why can't these things just happen without the intrusion of the media? I can't help but think that these two wanted to make some money.
Otherwise, why not wait until the child is a healthy baby, or toddler, and then tell the story? Why show pictures of a male that is pregnant when we all know this is going to cause an uproar at this stage, and controversy, and shock, etc. This is what I don't understand.
It would have been, in my opinion, much more beautiful, if the story had been told a little later, as the success I am sure it will be. There is more acceptance then, and the hoopla and fears are avoided.
The beauty that may have been a part of this story is now ruined, shocked people (like myself), will liken it to the usual circus events in our society, whereas a little containment on the part of the parents could really have opened alot of minds to more acceptance.
It just seems they sold out, which to me, makes it a contrived oddity, when it could have been something much more lastingly positive, and alot less freaky.
H
"I am a victim of society, and, an entertainer"........DW
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