Obama's Quiet Revolution

[Non Sum]

Hey MT,
MT: How you trounce the government for all our ills,

NS: I don’t recall doing so. Too many ills; only one of which is the nation state.

MT: especially against the little guys.

NS: I’m not against my fellow “little guys. If I overextended my credit I see no reason to blame others for my bad. If we don’t acknowledge our mistakes, we’re not likely to learn from them.

MT: But it is the same government voted in by Big Business with their boys at the very helm who you are really putting all blame on.

NS: Did “big business” put its boy, Obama at the helm? Did they replace the GOP majority in congress with Democrats too? You can’t have it both ways with your praise for Obama, and curses for those you claim put him there.

MT: The same big Business that is trying so hard to prevent Health Care Reform

NS: Big business is not monolithic. The tobacco industry fought to block anti-smoking legislation, while the health care industry fought to get it passed. Individuals too are on both sides of that debate, just as they are on numerous others, including health care. I don’t agree with every individual’s opinion/interest anymore than I do with every business’s. But, I don’t want to live in a democracy where some are not allowed to advance their own interests, no matter how much they may conflict with my own. It astonishes me that you don’t see how important political equality among all persons, and groups, is!

MT: Times are changing and they are changing beyond the control of those who maintain a financial system that is failing the needs of a future generations.

Ns: Times are always changing, and not always for the better. I dearly hope you are right that the world corporations are in the ascendancy. Which would mean that the non-productive, warring, parasitic nation states are in the decline. Like John Lennon, I dream of a future with no nations, nor religions too. Businesses are essentially money machines, with its workers ultimately being its clients. Wealth is what lifts up a people, never governments or religions.

MT: You admit to not fully grasping the nature of our current financial system and say I also do not grasp the system seems to put us both in the same position regarding our own lack of comprehension.

NS: Exactly my intended point. Our present world economy is a vast interconnected complex that no one truly comprehends, and I know of no economist who would claim otherwise. It is an ‘ecosystem’ where one must be very careful in their meddling, lest a butterfly effect leads to an economic tsunami. Planned economies are unworkable. Yes, some regulation is necessary; as it is with all human affairs. Human business is no exception in this. But, freedom remains essential in every human endeavor, especially in the matter of ‘survival and quality of life’ (i.e. ‘business’).

Thank you, for your good wishes, M(other)T(eresa). Please know that I, N(orman)S(wartzkoff) wish the very same for you. Shall we bid farewell to this long thread? You are welcome to have the last word.

[mtmynd]

NS: I dearly hope you are right that the world corporations are in the ascendancy. Which would mean that the non-productive, warring, parasitic nation states are in the decline.

Speaking of astonishment... as I struggle thru those words in search of the final say-so so generously offered. Not sure if I should thank you for what I had written regarding that... it certainly wasn't meant to be favorable as you seem to suggest.

Feb 2 I wrote:

What makes one believe that Corporate control is anything less than a new Corporate fascism, more appealing than our Government? Corporate power will eventually demand complete and total loyalty to the same Corporation that wins in the competitive struggle to wipe out any competition for their own glory... if we as a country continue believing there is such an entity as Corporate Good.

There are those who feel that a Corporate-run Nation would be far favorable to a Democracy without giving thought to how that Nation run system would eventually play out, when products and profits begin to slide downwards... the same way all business, both large and small, have done throughout the history of the country. What business*, which Corporation, has endured within the 234 years of our country's existence? Very few, some of which I listed below.

[*1) Caswell-Massey is a personal care product company and apothecary shop founded in 1752 in Newport, Rhode Island
*2) The Philadelphia Contributionship for the Insurance of Houses from Loss by Fire is the oldest property insurance company in the United States. It was organized by Benjamin Franklin in 1752, and incorporated in 1768.
*3) The New Hampshire Gazette is a non-profit, alternative, bi-weekly newspaper published in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. Its editors claim that the paper, published on-and-off in one form or another since 1756]

My point being our own Nation has survived 234 years with it's original Constitution as the ideal under which the country operates.

When I read N(ot) S(ure) clearly say he 'dearly hopes' for 'world corporate ascendancy' is an amazing statement to make knowing how very, very few Corporations have any meaningful survival rate to ensure job opportunities and security to a Nation's citizens.

Even though there is so much that could be said about this, that one could write a 500 page book on it. I'll save that for a more industrious writer to tackle one day.

My final word: period, (w/ your comment still reeling in my head!)

[mnaz]

NS: Did “big business” put its boy, Obama at the helm? Did they replace the GOP majority in congress with Democrats too? You can’t have it both ways with your praise for Obama, and curses for those you claim put him there.

This is what people fail to understand. (It's probably just me). If the whole system is breached/compromised/bought-off-by-various-interests to any significant degree, then distinctions between "Democrat" and "GOP," while not entirely meaningless, nevertheless begin to fade into the woodwork in favor of a general class war (hopefully a profitable one that will trickle down to you and me!). Of course the people, operating through the corporate channels of "free elections," removed Corporate Option A and replaced it with Option B (Corporocracy-Lite?) Of course we did. This is not so hard to understand. Option A (Bush Thuggery) pushed it too far, got a little too Mussolini for our taste in the end, so yeah... let's go with the other guys for a while.

MT: The same big Business that is trying so hard to prevent Health Care Reform

NS: Big business is not monolithic. The tobacco industry fought to block anti-smoking legislation, while the health care industry fought to get it passed. Individuals too are on both sides of that debate, just as they are on numerous others, including health care. I don’t agree with every individual’s opinion/interest anymore than I do with every business’s. But, I don’t want to live in a democracy where some are not allowed to advance their own interests, no matter how much they may conflict with my own.

I do.

That said, I'm not strictly a liberal!! There's a lot that has passed for "liberalism" that's bullshit over the years. And if anyone believes the eight years of Bu$h & Co. represented "conservatism," well, I've got some nice swamp land to sell you. Waterfront!

[stilltrucking]

I don't know if a conservative and a libertarian are the same. I don't think so.

You would think after Alan Greenspan's apology to congress for being so wrong about good old fashioned fraud in the marketplace people would be somewhat disillusioned with the belief that the invisible hand of the marketplace is going to solve all our problems.

Interesting show on PBS about Greenspan working so hard against regulation of the financial marketplace. He managed to shut Brooksley Born out of the good old boys network in the executive branch.
I suppose she is having the last laugh.

In 2009, the John F Kennedy Profile in Courage Award, the nation's most prestigious honor for public servants, was given to Brooksley Born.

"We didn't truly know the dangers of the market, because it was a dark market," says Brooksley Born, the head of an obscure federal regulatory agency -- the Commodity Futures Trading Commission [CFTC] -- who not only warned of the potential for economic meltdown in the late 1990s, but also tried to convince the country's key economic powerbrokers to take actions that could have helped avert the crisis. "They were totally opposed to it," Born says. "That puzzled me. What was it that was in this market that had to be hidden?"

Now, with many of the same men who shut down Born in key positions in the Obama administration, The Warning reveals the complicated politics that led to this crisis and what it may say about current attempts to prevent the next one.

(more)

Back to Obama's quiet revolution. The agencies like the FDA and EPA are being run by the corporate hacks that Bush appointed. I had hoped that Obama would have done something about them. But not yet.


Is that what this is all about? Libertarianism? Another ism?

[mtmynd]

JT: Is that what this is all about? Libertarianism? Another ism?

Jism. That's not another 'ism' is it?

[stilltrucking]

http://www.foodincmovie.com/about-the-issues.php

Food Inc.

As an example of what I'm saying about corporate malfeasance and the regulation thereof. The federal gov does not have the power to recall contaminated food. Thanks to the agri business lobby that is a power reserved to the corporations. In 17 states there are "meat libel" laws. Watch what you say about that hamburger.

In China they had the Melamine disaster. We only had some pets die here from contaminated dog food. No children. In China they executed a couple executives that were responsible for the death of all those children. I suppose if we had the death penalty for executives of rogue corporations we would not have the problems we do.

Pepper, latest recall. Amazing how complex it is, pepper sold in 100 pound packages to food processors. And then resold and resold again how many times till the processed food reaches the retail shelves. Pepper contaminated with salmonella.

Oh well,
Upton Sinclair The Jungle Anybody remember that novel? The good old days before the government started to inspect the food.

[mtmynd]

If I understand NS's theory correctly, any bad products such as you mention would be subject to market conditions... word gets around and those products lose customers and the companies involved lose their credibility, thus losing market shares and then their livelihood as a payment for neglect.

I'm sure he'll explain more clearly than what I've tossed out here, eh?

[stilltrucking]

I am sure that will be a comfort to the parents who watched their children die.

[mtmynd]

I'm sure you are being sarcastic, as well you should be.

[stilltrucking]

This is the kind of thing I have been looking for Cecil. The kind of change I want.

EPA moves to veto massive mountaintop removal operation in West Virginia

Choosing Lisa Jackson to Head EPA, Obama Goes With Veteran Regulator

Now I am waiting for something to be done about this

http://joshkearns.blogspot.com/2009/08/ ... nking.html

[mtmynd]

That first article reminded me of that tv commercial about clean coal energy... and then we read about fouling the waters and the land while destroying mountains to get the "clean coal energy"... crazy.

And the atrazine article... scary stuff. Again, something popped into memory - Rachel Carson's book, Silent Spring, in 1962, warning us about DDT and other pesticides and how they harm the birds. Here we are 48 years later and we're still fighting off harmful chemicals as if the producers of them are clueless that their own products are not safe for man or beast. It's bullshit.

[stilltrucking]

Did you notice the bit in the video about starting a "grass roots" movement of farmers to fight any attempt to ban Atrazine? A grass roots movement financed by the chemical company that makes Atrazine.

Since the SCOTUS decision on political campaign finances by corporations there are going to be a lot more grass root movements in politics.

I am not so much scared as hopeful. We are at the top of the food chain, and that shit flows upstream. First the froggies than us. We are going to be better men in the future will have been. More like women...

Pesticide atrazine can turn male frogs into femalesMar 1, 2010 ... The changes skew sex ratios in the frog population and could be a major ... Atrazine has caused a hormonal imbalance that has made them ...
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100301151927.htm - Cached

Cyniciism and innocence, something Nietzsche said about that, in times like these it take both I think.

I lost my political virginity to JFK in 1960. Johnny I hardly knew you.
I remember Obama's stand on clean coal. But what the hell Illinois is a big coal state. What's a politician to do? You got to get elected. Illinois is also a big corn producing state. Remember his stand on ethanol from corn?
But like the Reverend Wright said a politician got to do what a politician got to do. Also kind of amazing that Obama sat in that church for twenty years and never had a problem with Reverend Wright till it was not politic. I mean once you put that american flag pin in your lapel Dorothy is not in Kansas anymore.

"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. "---Paul Wellstone

RIP in peace Senator Wellstone. You are still missed.

[Non Sum]

MT: If I understand NS's theory correctly, any bad products such as you mention would be subject to market conditions... word gets around and those products lose customers and the companies involved lose their credibility, thus losing market shares and then their livelihood as a payment for neglect.

NS: Yes but...this is in addition to adequate regulations. If the regs aren't there, and sufficient to protect the environment, then I have to blame the government, and its electorate, for not putting them in place.

If the regs are there, but not adequately enforced; then, I blame the regulators for not doing their jobs, not the corp. I expect many businesses (though certainly not all) to try to get away with breaking the rules. We all do that, and have done it since we were kids. We see it in athletic contests any night of the week. But, if a referee is biased, corrupt, or inattentive, this does not mean that the athelete should receive an extra penalty besides the one his foul should have earned. The ref's act isn't a player's fault.

[stilltrucking]

Thomas who? Ah yes, decadence and lip service to our republican values. Life is good again.
Rome on the Potomac

"I love this word decadence, all shimmering in purple and gold. It suggests the subtle thoughts of ultimate civilization, a high literary culture, a soul capable of intense pleasures. It throws off bursts of fire and the sparkle of precious stones. It is redolent of the rouge of courtesans, the games of the circus, the panting of the gladiators, the spring of wild beasts, the consuming in flames of races exhausted by their capacity for sensation, as the tramp of an invading army sounds."

PAUL VERLAINE:

[stilltrucking]

Sir Lawrence Alma-Tadema...classical-subject painter, he became famous for his depictions of the luxury and decadence of the Roman Empire, with languorous figures set in fabulous marbled interiors or against a backdrop of dazzling blue Mediterranean sea and sky.

Sorry Cecil. Done high jacking your thread now I hope. For some reason I was reminded of Hester's picture.

Everything NS says sounds good in theory, in the abstract.