Obama's Quiet Revolution

[hester_prynne]

The middle class is being crushed now, and anyone who doesn't see it eventually will. I've never been middle class, I have always lived at or below the poverty level. After all, I'm a single mom with no family welfare to rely on. None, zero, I am on my own and I have and continue to have to fight for what little I have.
They crushed us poverty level folks a few years prior to now, in fact, I lost my house and job right after 911. I mean, like a week after. I couldn't believe how bad it was though, until my unemployment benefits ran out and I still couldn't get a job. That had never happened before. It's a sock in the gut, and until it hits you hard like that you just don't get it. Oh people yak and pontificate and quote stats and history. It puts me to sleep. The media, puts me to sleep. (That's their goal!!!!) Yawn.
The way I see it at this point, until a large number of citizens get together and create a voice, (which at this point I am convinced will never happen), we're all agreeing to go down with the government. Every class is going down, but each one will go down in sequence, therefore giving the Corps time to wipe everyone's assets out...to flick us like dominoes to captives, unable to find respite except at their mercy. They'll do it gradually, by degree, so we'll be isolated and not realize it in a unified way.
I have resorted to hoping that states will start successions from the Government, it seems the only hope left. I would much rather pay taxes on a state level anyway at this point. I loathe having to continue to put my money in the monster's hands.
Today, I'm feeling pretty good as far as myself. Bouncin back w/ new insights I wish others could understand without having to live and learn the hard way like I have.
Today, I live within my means, have no debt, no car and I refuse to buy into any of the crap. I am fully aware that TV and celebrity are not mirrors but delusions. I made Stella's father sign a legal document when we got divorced 14 years ago, stating that his dad, (Stella's grandad) will pay for all of her college. Best thing I ever did. It's more valuable than child support would have been and it's going to happen! They are still going to honor this deal.
I got a pretty sturdy job now and it pays a little more than enough. It's just what I wanted, it's hard work but not soul draining.
I get tons of offers and invitations to get into the Corporate, (American now) way and I easily and knowingly refuse. They hate this! I've noticed lately that it's damn hard to pay for things in cash!!!!!!! But I have found a few places that still take it. I don't buy anything I can't pay for entirely at the cash register. Anything beyond that makes me a sucker! No matter how they try to tell me it's to my benefit. No matter how hard they try to make you think it's all status quo. It's none of that. It's simply, bullshit.
It's easy to be motivated to stay within my financial bounds after what happened to me a few years back. It was the most humiliating, scary and coldest time I ever lived through. It scarred me deeply. I'll never forget the smirky, insulting way they looked at me when they took my house from me. When I absolutely could not find work for 2 years.
It's coming towards you (the middle class) now, I can see it plain as day.
Watch out! And watch out for your fellow human beings!
H

[mtmynd]

NS: I’m 100% in favor of your expressing your concerns, misguided as they are, MT (Missing The-point).

Misguided, my friend? Difference in opinion I will agree with , but to make such a reckless claim that I am misguided surprises me. It surprises me that you do not see how corporate growth and power is rapidly becoming our new government, bought and paid for thru their profiteering. You will never see a Constitution for "We the People" written by the Corporation for the same People. You will see a country where the most powerful Corporation will ultimately have control due to laws and regulations passed by the lawmakers who are bought and paid for by the very Corporation that is in control. Do not mistake their mantra that Government is incapable of running the country, which more and more bought and paid for government officials will continue to parrot for the Corporate Line. This mantra is a lie and a deception that favors the corporation and one that We the People will continue hearing pounded into their minds, Pavlovian-like where those that listen and follow the corporate line will not trust or believe anything the government says or does.

What makes one believe that Corporate control is anything less than a new Corporate fascism, more appealing than our Government? Corporate power will eventually demand complete and total loyalty to the same Corporation that wins in the competitive struggle to wipe out any competition for their own glory... if we as a country continue believing there is such an entity as Corporate Good.

[Non Sum]

Hi
Mnaz: so you're fine with big defense, big oil, big pharma, big insurance, big finance/banking etc. etc.

NS: They all began as ‘small’ etc. etc., and, through wit & work, became big. What would you have them do, shut down operations, send everybody home, due to the sin of success? What of ‘economies of scale’? Reduced costs almost always translate into savings for the consumer, ergo “mom & pops” inability to compete (unless they can contribute something ‘special’.) How about a “mom & pop oil tanker operation.” Do you think a lot of little moms or pops can pop for those sort of operational costs?

Mnaz: (most, if not all of these "entities of us" subject to some degree of foreign investment and influence)

NS: You’re entirely right. But, I fail to see the evil in commerce between neighbors. Would you have us put walls around our nation, like some North Korea, and share their economic formula for success?

Mnaz: directly buying government policy to try and insure their own substantial profit at the (potential) expense of the people as a whole

NS: If we elect leaders who ‘sell’ policy at the expense of their electorate, then the fault clearly lies with that electorate, no? If you hire employees at your worm farm who keep selling your worms to their fishing buddies, does the blame belong on the ‘buddies’? I’d place it foremost on you for poor hiring, and monitoring, practices.

Mnaz: how did "we all" profit by gas reaching $4.50+/gal. for several months back in 2008?

NS: Several ways. It opened up a previously comatose exploration/R&D oil technology industry. It reduced profligate consumption of a rapidly declining resource. It reduced carbon, and other pollutants. It restarted the ‘green revolution’ in countless directions. It was also a wakeup call for the economic reality that there are 2-3 billion more oil consumers coming on line to bid for a dwindling supply. Supply & demand sets costs in a free market, not capitalist, or socialist, whim.

Mnaz: nike sweat shops

Ns: Even mom & pop shoe shops sell Nike. It depends upon the consumer to send consumption messages concerning the human abuses perpetrated by: individuals, big & small manufacturers and retailers, and by governments. Criminal acts are committed by individuals (in groups or singularly). We don’t generalize and arrest everybody, or every big business, for the sins of a few.

Hi
Hester: The middle class is being crushed now, and anyone who doesn't see it eventually will.

NS: The middleclass is always being crushed, always has been. But, so aren’t all the other classes. Only in a rigidly structured society, like the old east Indian class structure, can you keep everyone unmolested and secure in their “proper” place. Even there, a member of the lowest class was assured of eventual class promotion given future incarnations—even one day becoming a god. Of course, the gods, and maharajas, were assured of the future statuses of ‘untouchable’ or ‘demon.’ We just do our shifting, here in the West, a bit quicker is all.

Hester: I lost my house and job right after 911. I mean, like a week after.

NS: You lived in the Pentagon, or Trade Towers?? Bummer!
Sorry, just making light of somebody else’s tragedy. It’s always best to laugh at what can’t be helped; beats crying about it, no? I’ve lived (with wife & daughter) in cars, school buses, tents, and under the stars. I can appreciate your problems. The world is a jungle, and survival of the fittest remains the rule. But, you’ve apparently learned some great lessons. One of which I too learned the hard way, i.e. always live well below your present income. If anyone does that, I promise -- freaking guarantee them, that they will become wealthy.

Hi
MT: Misguided, my friend? Difference in opinion I will agree with

NS: As will I too agree with it. I’m sure, from your perspective, I must appear “misguided” as well. Please take no offense, where none was intended; only a bit of subjective spin purely meant for spice, my good friend.

MT: It surprises me that you do not see how corporate growth and power is rapidly becoming our new government, bought and paid for thru their profiteering.

NS: “The business of America is business.” Do you think that is a recent insight? Do you take ‘mercantilism’ (where gov & business interests coalesce) to be a new term? To quote an old Biblical saw: ‘there is damn little ‘new under the sun.’ I’m “surprised” that you are just now discovering a fact preceding recorded history.

Government only governs through power. Power is gained/maintained by accessing the power held by the powerful. Regardless of the specific form of governance, this ‘power governs’ formulae never changes, nor will it ever. But, fear not, you too can exert power by incorporating yourself with like-minded others, i.e. be a powerful corporation too. Then when you again discover what has always been, you will be glad, rather than sad about it.

God bless capitalism, which alone allows (disciplined) slaves to pay off their own slave price, and regain power over themselves.
NS (Necessity’s Slave)

[Barry]

N(ational) S(aviour), a question...should business be at all regulated by government, and if so, in what way, to what purpose, in whose interest?

Please answer elborately.

Peace,
Barry

[Non Sum]

Hi Barry,
Barry: Please answer elborately.

NS: That has to be a first.

Barry: should business be at all regulated by government,

NS: Of course, as should we all. But, I far prefer 'laws' openly created by duly elected legislatures, than by 'regulations' promulgated by bureaucrats.

Barry: in what way, to what purpose, in whose interest?

NS: I believe that the general laws dealing with 'mala in se' crimes should be applied to all citizens equally, and they do in fact already cover most white collar criminal acts (e.g. fraud, bribery, embezzlement, forgery, etc.). Many business orientated crimes, such as 'false advertising' are no more than one more example of 'fraud,' and need no special 'business' handling.

That said, sure business requires some unique regulation, just as any sport must establish 'mala prohibita' guidelines to keep the game running smooth and fair for all interested/involved parties.

Anarchy within a game, business, country, organism, or even within an individual's behaviour to themselves, is self-destructive, is a form of cancer. What I am hearing advocated here on this thread is anarchy's opposite, 'over-regulation.' Just as when the auto-immune system begins to attack the body's organs, mistaking what is essential for 'the enemy.' Profit making businesses, great & small, are not the enemy. Individuals, and organizations make errors, commit crimes; we all screw up at times. Fault the act, and the individual(s) that committed it, but not 'individuals, organizations' per se.

[mtmynd]

NS: “The business of America is business.”

This quote is credited to the 30th President, Republican Calvin Coolidge, who actually said "After all, the chief business of the American people is business." taken from a speech he gave before the American Society of Newspaper Editors in Washington, D.C. on January 17, 1925. Interestingly, in this same speech he also said: "Of course the accumulation of wealth cannot be justified as the chief end of existence."

If he were alive today, I would have to say to "Silent" Cal - 'the chief business of the vast majority of the world is business,' for without a functioning commerce, a nation would not remain healthy enough to serve its people.

Business needs a watchdog to prevent it from becoming an all powerful entity and that watchdog is government. A government needs the influence to put the brakes on a business (Corporation or otherwise) that allows wealth to trump the welfare of the people it is serving.

NS: "What I am hearing advocated here on this thread is anarchy's opposite, 'over-regulation.'

Personally, I don't believe anything I've written on the thread argues for this over-regulation you have heard. Perhaps you could quote the offensive remark?

Balance. That's all my interest is b-a-l-a-n-c-e... keeping the playing field fair and balanced for business and government alike. But on one hand I see those who support a stronger government in an opinion battle with those who support less interference by government.

My own concern about a laissez-faire government is allowing business to run rampant without any rules or disciplines to keep such a business (corporation) within the bounds set forth by Constitutional Rights. The latest SCOTUS ruling does little to speak for the people and their Constitutional Rights but rather for the Corporate advantage over the People. The level playing field has once again been trashed for Corporate interests over the interests of the People. When an already powerful business entity has bought their power thru the graces of the lobbyists, each law they mold to the Corporate interest make it more difficult for opposition to compete... the very heart and soul of business principle.

NS: God bless capitalism, which alone allows (disciplined) slaves to pay off their own slave price, and regain power over themselves.

God bless capitalism..? That sounds so close to 'money as god' that it runs a chill up my spine. Those who work in government... all departments... on Federal level, State level and City/County level are not involved in the strict definition of Capitalism, i.e. "an economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market." These necessary jobs within society fall more into the category of Socialism... and do so extraordinarily well. A nice example of balance within a society.

Well, N(arcotic)S(tate) ... that's all I got in me tonight. SooZen and I are in Tucson for the major Gem & Mineral Show and Bead Show which is the largest show of its kind in the world... quite a spectacle and one I happy to be able to see. My posts around here will be limited, but I will try to check in once a day to see if you haven't completely slipped off your rocker.

[Barry]

SooZen and I are in Tucson for the major Gem & Mineral Show and Bead Show which is the largest show of its kind in the world... quite a spectacle and one I happy to be able to see.

You are taking pics to post, right? For those of us not able to attend?

Peace,
Barry

[mtmynd]

I have my camera and easy inspiration... let's see what 'develops'.

[Non Sum]

Hi
MT (Mercinary Trashing): "After all, the chief business of the American people is business." (Calvin Coolidge)

NS: Not at all like the taciturn Cal to go for the longer form. But don’t let his lessened status of wealth mislead you into thinking he didn’t see ‘business’ in elevated, even spiritual, terms:
” "The man who builds a factory builds a temple. The man who works there worships there."

A bit over the top, what.

MT: Personally, I don't believe anything I've written on the thread argues for this over-regulation you have heard.

NS: I refer to your ‘them versus us’ drumbeat, pitting “corporate interests over against that of the people.” This to me is creating a false dichotomy, since the reality of a business IS people. People create a business, people run and work the business, and people are greatly served by what a business does. Many businesses are in the business of directly saving the lives of people. ‘Profit’ is more often a motive for good, not a sin.

We both, my friend, agree that people (in or out of organizations) must regulate themselves with laws, just as our bodies must regulate themselves. “Over-regulation” is when one conceptual part of an entity (e.g. an organism) misidentifies another portion as something alien, and inimical, to itself, and so responds in some way against the welfare of itself. This is the position you are taking when you would have the political rights due to All Americans allowed for some, and denied to others.

MT: keeping the playing field fair and balanced

NS: That is all that I am asking for as well. Yet, US history is full of calls for “fairness” somehow secured by denying equal rights to others, be they women, those without property, those with color, communists, or the wrong sexual orientation. There is no fairness unless we are All (those we like and dislike) given the exact same right of access to ‘our’ government. Allowing these rights to others does no harm to your rights, but rather makes them more secure. Don’t create imagined monsters out of a segment of society. This republic’s only enemy is fear of itself.

MT: God bless capitalism..? That sounds so close to 'money as god' that it runs a chill up my spine.

NS: You may want to see a chiropractor about that chilly spine of yours, M(uscular) T(remors). During the agricultural revolution many a farmer was heard to say, “God bless the turnip.” Do you suppose that was the beginning of the dreaded ‘Turnip Heresy,’ with farmers turning to ‘turnips as their bitter gods’?

MT: Those who work in government... all departments... on Federal level, State level and City/County level are not involved in the strict definition of Capitalism, …These necessary jobs within society fall more into the category of Socialism.

NS: ‘Socialism’ “is where the means of production and distribution of goods are owned and controlled collectively.” Our government provides a contracted (by this capitalist society) service, much as a business may contract for waste removal, nothing more. Government does not own (with rare exceptions) this nation’s means of production, nor does it distribute much; it’s more of a ‘collector.’ Its function is more parasitic than productive. Yes, it has its place and uses, much like a grossly overpaid umpire in baseball.

MT: SooZen and I are in Tucson for the major Gem & Mineral Show and Bead Show which is the largest show of its kind in the world.

NS: You guyz have fun at the show, for there is no business like show business. But be careful that your own business does not make a profit, nor grow, lest you too become the enemy. I’ll keep my beady eyes peeled for your safe return, and my porch rocker’s seat belt tight, lest I slip off of it.
NS (Narrow Slipper)

[mnaz]

in my (general) view, folks these days can't seem to fathom how far out of balance the system has tilted to the LARGE (and de-regulated) corporate interests, and can't seem to distinguish between these forces and, say, "small business" entrepreneur-ship, which to me is quite a different animal. Hence you get the likes of "Joe the Plumber," put up by the likes of FOX mouthpieces, routinely spouting nonsense on a national stage about taxation or whatever. You get enough LARGE money involved, and it's not just all "we the people." Not really.

[Non Sum]

Hey mnaz, you appear to be quoting yourself (?).

mnaz: "in my (general) view, folks these days can't seem to fathom how far out of balance the system has tilted to the LARGE (and de-regulated) corporate interests, and can't seem to distinguish between these forces and, say, "small business" entrepreneur-ship

NS: Yes, those who don't buy into the secret conspiracy scenario that is clearly festering here among us must be the weak minded, who, "can't seem to fathom, nor distinguish" what is most obvious to the wisely frightened children whom alone 'know' monsters lurk beneath our beds. How else to explain the indifferent public, given that one could never consider themselves being in error. This Chicken Little stuff would be laughable, if it weren't so often used by scoundrels to whip up mob prejudice.

"You are seeing today an all out attempt
to marshal the forces of the opposition,
using not merely the communists, or their
fellow travelers-the 'deluded' liberals, the
eggheads, and some of my good friends
in both the Democratic and Republican Parties
who can become heros over night in the eyes
of the left-wing press if they
will just join with the jackal pack" (Joseph Mccarthy)

[mtmynd]

Howdy-do, N(ever)S(atiated)... good to see you in fine and fit form.

I state what I see... you state what you see... I respond with my opinion... you respond with your opinion... I reply to your opinion... you reply to my opinion... ain't duality fun? yin and yang working in a singular harmony but only with the yin working with the yang... duality coalescing into a singular duality which we simple hu'mans deal with on a daily basis. Even something as the most powerful government in the world today is subjected to this duality.. yin/yang. Dualism happens in every faction, in every moment, in every day of our lives... we are prisoners, so to speak, of duality. this is being perfectly played out with our dueling opinions... neither of which will determine the course of hu'man history. That is in the 'hands' of a much larger purpose that we may never understand or even agree with should we approach an understanding. But even what I just wrote is open to the greater forces of duality - I am wrong and someone else is right... ad infinitum.

Our social civility nods it's collective head to agree we all have our own opinions. No mystery there. Where the argument comes in is who is right? Whose opinion will dominate all other opinions. This is from where war originates - domination of opinion... may the strongest opinion crush the competition. War ensues from that simplest of domination - my way or your way, let the battle begin. But there is a force going on that either the winner of a battle or the loser of a battle, so involved in either strutting like the proud rooster in the flock or licking the wounds of the defeated- between those two lies the very fact one side is the current belief while on the other side the belief awaits its turn to come forward and take its place for however long the 'win' will be.

Ultimately, there is no right or no wrong, only the timing... the agreement based on the timing of who is right and who is wrong. It's another numbers game where one came from all before it as long as public interest reigns. Public interest, no matter how one may feel about it, ultimately will have the say-so in regards to whatever the answer, whatever the current style or fashion is... the public is the final decider.

There are always the 'fringe element' outside the public opinion. This is not new. Folks who for some reason or another intuit some opinion.. some opinion... some idea that is 'ahead of it's time.' Again, this is not new. Society, whether they realize it or not, actually have a need for the fringe element. The fringe element are the few who dare explore outside the given social boundaries of the times. Most of hu'manities advancements have been initiated by the fringe, who have paid a big price by standing against public opinion... the Public Interest that is held closely by the majority. The fringe have a simple enough saying, i.e. 'the masses are asses' which answers the fringe's question - 'why don't they get it?' They are many times ahead of collective thought.

The fringe element brings forth the new while it is ultimately the decision of public opinion that either accepts or rejects that which the fringe element has introduced.
_______

Alas, my friend, the time whispers to me that both my body and my mynd are in need of rest... a deep and satisfying sleep to relax the tired bones and muscles that have given beyond their duty for this man today. I will listen to those whispers and acknowledge their message as valid as well as inviting.

Good night, N(imble) S(ervant)... and may pleasant dreams imbibe your imaginings with pure contentment.

[mnaz]

so then, Cec & Soo making a few bucks at a show is the same thing as Cheney and Enron and Halliburton robbing us blind. It's all "capitalism," right?

[Non Sum]

Hiddy-ho, M(icro) T(ornado)
I very much enjoyed your well-stated musings on the nature of dualistic opining! You are indeed exceptional in your ability to be objective on the higher level, whilst still actively partisan on the lower. In sport, this is simply “good sportsmanship,” to play hard—yet never forget that it is ‘just a game,’ but in discussion (esp. political or religious) it is a rare accomplishment indeed. You continue to impress me, M(ost) T(houghtful). But, don’t let it go to your head, as I’m easily impressed.

MT: Where the argument comes in is who is right? Whose opinion will dominate all other opinions. This is from where war originates - domination of opinion... may the strongest opinion crush the competition. War ensues from that simplest of domination

NS: Wars don’t “originate” in argument, or you and I would have become sworn enemies many, many, debates ago. Wars originate in the egotistic wills of those who must dominate in order to compensate for their own self-doubt. “Domination” is the antithesis of debate. Debate is creative mental re’creation; while war is mainly repression and destruction.

MT: There are always the 'fringe element' outside the public opinion. This is not new. Folks who for some reason or another intuit some opinion.. some opinion... some idea that is 'ahead of it's time.'

NS: This, at best, is only a half truth, M(issed)T(iming). When you say, “fringe element,” I think of the song (a sort of anthem of mine), “Lunatic Fringe.” Just as DNA makes for countless experiments, yet with only a few resulting in permanent advances, likewise social experiments and theories are largely dead-ends.

Thomas Edison accepted, and then rejected, hundreds of failed attempts at constructing a light-bulb. Should we say that each individual ‘bright’ idea that momentarily lit up his mind was “ahead of its time,” and for that reason alone it failed? Or, would it be more accurate to say that ‘most’ “enlightened intuitions” are burnouts from the get-go?

The fringe is chock full of folly, and must work hard to prove itself to be the rare and exceptional exception. If we were to keep score on each ‘fringe vs. the masses of asses’ contested opinion, I’ve little doubt the fringe would envy the high scoring rate of the early Christians in their infamous contest with lions.

MT: The fringe element brings forth the new while it is ultimately the decision of public opinion that either accepts or rejects that which the fringe element has introduced.

NS: No, often times the fringe attempt social experiments on their own, with utopian dystopias, cultural revolutions (e.g. China, Cambodia), and new Reichs. Hopefully, the proper time for most such fringe ideas (e.g. the new ‘Tea Party’) will never arrive.

”Two words to put fear into the hearts of liberals: ‘President Palin’.” (Last night’s Tea Party speech in Nashville)

I shan’t string on your tired and fringe beaded bones with my gems any longer, lest I fatigue you further. I hope you’re finding lots of gems and minerals to buy at the show, since I own bits of several mines (all to the sole purpose of gaining domination over the poor American slaves, of course. Why else ).

”Even weak men when united are powerful.” (Friedrich Schiller)

[mtmynd]

mnaz: so then, Cec & Soo making a few bucks at a show is the same thing as Cheney and Enron and Halliburton robbing us blind. It's all "capitalism," right?

sounds as though ol' NS feels capitalism has no limits nor should have no limits... winner takes all, period, and call those who invested in that winner 'lucky!'