News Report tonight - Afghanistan

[Doreen Peri]

I just saw the news and they showed some footage of soldiers shooting weapons in Afghanistan.

I still don't who they're shooting at. I can't figure it out.

Can anybody fill me in and tell me who the soldiers are shooting at? Who's the enemy? Who are thy killing?

Thanks.

[Arcadia]

the talibans? (in theory), but it seems that they look a lot like "civiles" too

[mtmynd]

having missed what you caught on the news, may I offer 'they' are shooting those who are shooting back at them..?

[Doreen Peri]

It was footage of US troops .... shooting weapons....

Hey, if they shot at me and I had a weapon, I'd shoot back at them, too!

I seriously would like to know who the enemy is. Is there an army of armed Taliban soldiers shooting at and/or back at American soldiers? (as Arcadia suggested)

Or?

WHO?

I'm not kidding. I'd really like to know. Who's the enemy?

[mtmynd]

The U.S. along with some Afghan soldiers are in Marjah (?) to oust the Taliban and make the town/area safe for the residents there. that is the reported plan as we hear in thru the media anyway.

So when our troops or our allies go into areas to clean them up from Taliban defenders, there are shots exchanged. Soldiers, in order to prevent getting shot or even killed, defend themselves by shooting back hoping to kill the shooters to save their own asses.

I don't think the soldiers have any exact way of differentiating a Taliban fighter from any other gunfire aimed at them. It would be foolish to wait and ask if who you have in your sites if they are Taliban or not, and not shoot the armed individual if they answer 'No, I'm not Taliban." It would not be a smart thing to do if you enjoy living.

[Barry]

I saw a report last night detailing the rules of engagement.

If you're an American or NATO soldier in Afghanistan and someone shoots at you from behind, if you turn around and see someone with a gun, you may shoot back. If you see someone but see no gun, you may not.

If you are an American or NATO soldier being shot at from a house, even from the same house day after day, every time you drive by on patrol, you may not call in an air strike or otherwise attack the house.

Sounds like one of the fairest damned wars in history if you're not an American or NATO soldier.

The enemy is a minority group of Afghani citizens who are criminals to Islam, Afghanistan, and to humanity in general because of their present and past acts of terrorism, tyranny and oppression.

It's really not that complex.

Peace,
Barry

[Doreen Peri]

Cecil said,

The U.S. along with some Afghan soldiers are in Marjah (?) to oust the Taliban and make the town/area safe for the residents there. that is the reported plan as we hear in thru the media anyway.

OK. So the enemy is the Taliban?

Barry said,

The enemy is a minority group of Afghani citizens who are criminals to Islam, Afghanistan, and to humanity in general because of their present and past acts of terrorism, tyranny and oppression.

OK. So the enemy is a minority group of Afghani citizens?

..............

Barry said,

It's really not that complex.

It isn't?

Then why does Cecil think the enemy is the Taliban and you think the enemy is a minority group of Afghani citizens?

Is it both? Is it one or the other?

How do the soldiers recognize the enemy, by the way?

[stilltrucking]

How do the soldiers recognize the enemy, by the way?

I suppose they are the ones wearing the black hats.

The Taliban used to be the good guys once upon a time.
So was Saddam Hussein.
Our government backed both of them.
I suppose it is always in flux.

[Doreen Peri]

Yeah yeah.. that must be it!

shoot everybody wearing a black hat! Now that makes it easy!



And yeah, I know... George Orwell was quite the visionary ... in 1984 the enemy changed like that, too. Good guys became bad guys became good guys, and on and on.

What fun, huh?

[Barry]

Then why does Cecil think the enemy is the Taliban and you think the enemy is a minority group of Afghani citizens?

Is it both? Is it one or the other?

The enemy is the Taliban.

The Taliban is a minority group of Afghani citizens.

So, yes, it is both.

The soldiers you saw shooting were likely shooting at someone(s) shooting at them, as per the rules of engagement. The enemy is easily recognized. They're the ones shooting at you.

Now, Doreen, come on. Yes, it's a war. Yes, war sucks. No mother wants her son or daughter to go to some foreign country and get killed for some vague purpose. But every mother wants her daughter to have the chance to achieve all she can, be all she can be, get an education, in other words. The Taliban is the enemy because they disallowed this through beatings, floggings and murder when they ruled Afghanistan. I really don't understand how this is so hard for you, a women, a strong, beautiful, powerful, self-driven woman, to understand this.

Peace,
Barry

[still.trucking]

I was thinking about Orwell too.

Could someone explain to me how come the Taliban used to be the freedom fighters, they were on our side. They were the good guys. Now they are the bad guys. Was there a change in their behavior?

Or is it because
"The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
So therefore:
"Friends come and go but enemies accumulate"

[stilltrucking]

U.S. death toll in Afghanistan hits 1,000: website

Few Americans he predicted would even notice the 1000th U.S. death. “My own sense he said is that in Washington there is once again a consensus in support of what has become something akin to permanent war.”
“And although we all knows that the burden of sacrifice in this very long war is being borne by a very small percentage of the American people, very few people in Washington or in the country at large are willing to examine the moral implications of the reality"
"I think the troops and the wars in which they are engaged have largely become an afterthought and Americans are moving on to other things," he said.
Andrew Bacevich

Andrew J. Bacevich is professor of history and international relations at Boston University. His bestselling new book is The Limits of Power: The End of American Exceptionalism

[Steve Plonk]

"The history books tell it,
They tell it so well",
The artillery fired,
The Taliban fell.

The artillery fired,
The Taliban died,
This song was sung,
"With God on our side"...

But now we have drones,
Bunker bombs fall where they may,
They maim poor civilians,
In mud huts where they lay...

Now, it seems, people we're
A victim of pride,
'Cause war is hell,
Even with God on our side...

Just like Joshua fighting the Ai,
We take an eye for an eye,
How long must it go on,
Before many more die...

For the bombs and shells fall,
The innocents are maimed,
But in long distance fighting,
Only drones can be blamed.

For more discussion, see my column: "Life in the Horse Lane".

[hester_prynne]

It's business. War is business in disguise. The question is, what is the business? Business. Heh.
It's complex in it's stupidity.
More complex is being told that something is not complex, in a patronizing tone.
H

[stilltrucking]

"The business of America is business" Calvin (L.L.) Coolidge.

Yes war is a business, so is politics.

I can only hope that Obama is as shrewd a businessman as I think he is.

“This is the political crisis confronting Americans today
“Our governmental system poses a clear and present danger to those it is meant to serve.”

The Limits of Power - Andrew J. Bacevich