war with iran

What in the world is going on?
User avatar
mnaz
Posts: 7674
Joined: August 15th, 2004, 10:02 pm
Location: north of south

war with iran

Post by mnaz » February 1st, 2012, 6:00 pm

a "non-FOX" p.o.v....

"The Onus is on Washington, as Usual-- Fingers Itch for a War on Iran" (by vijay prashad, 1 / 30 / 12):

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/01/30/ ... r-on-iran/
. . . the war against Iran has already begun. In 1953, the US fired its first shot across the bow, taking out a democratically elected government in a CIA coup. And political and financial subvention was given to Saddam Hussein by the Atlantic states and the Gulf emirs to invade Iran and crush the Iranian Revolution of 1979. Millions died in that futile war, whose conclusion left a battered Saddam turning to the Gulf Arabs, an unpaid bill in hand . . . Gulf Arab reticence to pay up led to Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait, and the full-scale entry of US troops into Saudi Arabia (which enraged Osama Bin Laden and his minions) and into a decades long war against Iraq (1991-2011).
. . . the Atlantic world has conducted a war against Iran on three fronts: First, diplomatic: By 2003, the United States delivered Tehran a gift-- new regimes in Kabul and Baghdad had close ties to the Iranians, and the latter exerted themselves to help bring a measure of stability to their neighbors. But the Bush administration saw Iran through the eyes of Tel Aviv, as the Great Satan . . . and the Bush administration began a campaign to isolate Iran. In 2005, Condoleezza Rice traveled to India to offer to recognize its nuclear program if India voted with the U.S. in the International Atomic Energy Agency meetings against Iran . . . having conducted an “illegal” nuclear test in 1998, India had been boxed into sanctions. The U.S. deal not only ended the sanctions but enabled India to secure a “legal” stream of uranium . . . India voted against Iran, and the US signed an alignment treaty with India. These two gestures isolated Iran and created tensions between India and Pakistan (which was carrying the heavy water for the US in the Afghan War and saw this new treaty as a betrayal by the US) . . . the U.S. raised the tension level in South Asia.
Second, Economic. . . . the newest sanctions by the U.S. (signed by Obama on Dec. 31) and by the Europeans (signed on Jan. 23) are designed to bring the Iranian economy to its knees . . . as European oil sanctions to set in, exports will decrease. As if by clockwork, oil prices began to rise . . . But oil analysts say that this is not a long-term problem. Samuel Ciszuk of KBC Energy Economics notes, “Volumes from Iraq should be up significantly, Libya is doing very well . . . NATO’s wars have turned the pipelines of Iraq and Libya toward Europe and the United States. They will more than compensate for lost Iranian oil.
ah yes, our usual suspects again. now that we "took care of" those pesky oil problems in iraq and libya, what better time to put the screws to iran more seriously?
Third, Covert. Since 2010, four nuclear scientists in Iran have been mysteriously killed. In January 2010, explosives stashed in a motorcycle killed Professor Masud Ali Mohammadi of the Department of Physics at the University of Tehran. In November 2010, Professor Majid Shahriari, who worked at the Atomic Energy Organization of Iran was killed when motorcycle-riding assassins attached magnetic bombs to his car. In July 2011, Dariush Rezaeinejad was shot dead as he waited to pick up his child from daycare. He worked at K. N. Toosi University of Technology in electrical engineering as well as the Atomic Energy Organization. And on January 11, 2012, a motorcycle-riding assassin attached a magnetic bomb to the car of Mustafa Ahmadi Roshan, a scientist at the Natanz uranium enrichment facility.

Four days after Roshan’s assassination, the Sunday Times (London) reported that these killings are part of “Israel’s secret war.” One Israeli source told the reporters, Uzi Mahnaimi and Marie Colvin, “The killings were merely a precursor to a military strike, not merely an alternative, to make it more difficult for Iran to rebuild facilities if they are bombed.” The US and Israel, it has been alleged, attacked Iranian computer facilities in 2010 with the Stuxnet worm . . .
. . . as pressure on Iran mounts, there is a temptation for the Iranians to lash out, perhaps close the Straits of Hormuz. If they do so, the Atlantic powers, the Israelis and the Gulf Arabs will take this as a casus belli. It will be enough to power up the cruise missile delivery systems . . . an attack or possible war on Iran would have the added effect of derailing the Arab revolutions and revolts and justify the continued presence of a large US military force in the oil-rich region . . . If a shooting war begins, establishment intellectuals will return to the television sets, long faces and small mouths telling us about the warlike culture of the Arabs and the Persians . . .
and another . . .

"Bring on the Sanctions; Send in the Clowns. Nuclear Iran" (by robert fisk, 1 / 26 / 12):

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/01/26/nuclear-iran/
The Israeli President warns us now that Iran is on the cusp of producing a nuclear weapon . . . Yet we reporters do not mention that Shimon Peres, as Israeli Prime Minister, said exactly the same thing in 1996. That was 16 years ago. And we do not recall that the current Israeli PM, Benjamin Netanyahu, said in 1992 that Iran would have a nuclear bomb by 1999. That would be 13 years ago. Same old story.
When did all this start? The Shah. The old boy wanted nuclear power. He even said he wanted a bomb because “the US and the Soviet Union had nuclear bombs” and no one objected. Europeans rushed to supply the dictator’s wish. Siemens – not Russia – built the Bushehr nuclear facility . . . when Ayatollah Khomeini took over Iran in 1979, he ordered the entire nuclear project to be closed down because it was “the work of the Devil”. Only when Saddam invaded Iran – with our Western encouragement – and started using poison gas against the Iranians (chemical components arriving from the West, of course) was Khomeini persuaded to reopen it. All this has been deleted from the historical record . . .
anyway, enough for now . . .

User avatar
stilltrucking
Posts: 20607
Joined: October 24th, 2004, 12:29 pm
Location: Oz or somepLace like Kansas

Re: war with iran

Post by stilltrucking » February 2nd, 2012, 7:02 pm

Not to worry. Not for nothing did they give Obama a Nobel Peace Prize. :wink:

User avatar
mnaz
Posts: 7674
Joined: August 15th, 2004, 10:02 pm
Location: north of south

Re: war with iran

Post by mnaz » February 2nd, 2012, 9:06 pm

yeah.
... inspiration for my next poem-- "nobel peace prize winner was an ass-kicker"...

Steve Plonk
Posts: 2483
Joined: December 12th, 2009, 4:48 pm

Re: war with iran

Post by Steve Plonk » February 3rd, 2012, 1:02 pm

I guess I haven't watched as much PRESS.TV as Mnaz. Oh well, I don't watch Fox News or CNN either. I didn't get punched out by "counterpunch". I took a kicking and I came back sticking with the American point of view...Snarky snark snark snark...Stand up for America. :lol: There is an 80% chance that there
will be no war with Iran. "Don't Worry, Be Happy!" as Meher Baba used to say...

User avatar
mnaz
Posts: 7674
Joined: August 15th, 2004, 10:02 pm
Location: north of south

Re: war with iran

Post by mnaz » February 3rd, 2012, 2:56 pm

but... in some ways there HAS been war with / on iran for 50 + years . . .

we HATE it, when we can't get our way. (and the oil) . . .

Steve Plonk
Posts: 2483
Joined: December 12th, 2009, 4:48 pm

Re: war with iran

Post by Steve Plonk » February 3rd, 2012, 3:30 pm

We need to get alternative sources of energy--which has been harped on
for fifty years. When will we start on a "switch grass" diet? :) When will
we harness "Gingrinch" to a windmill and get some clean energy out of him? :lol:

User avatar
mnaz
Posts: 7674
Joined: August 15th, 2004, 10:02 pm
Location: north of south

Re: war with iran

Post by mnaz » February 3rd, 2012, 5:10 pm

exactly. it's been harped on, but to little effect. because we know who has dominated our energy policy for the last 60+ years. "big fossil fuel" roaming the halls of congress and legislature. maybe that's changing . . . though much too sloooowly, it would seem . . .

we can see things things a little more clearly now, with all of our foreign so-called "humanitarian" energy wars . . .

User avatar
stilltrucking
Posts: 20607
Joined: October 24th, 2004, 12:29 pm
Location: Oz or somepLace like Kansas

Re: war with iran

Post by stilltrucking » February 3rd, 2012, 11:05 pm

A lot of capital is invested in sucking every last drop of profit out of petroleum. Can't move too fast. It would not be good for the bottom line. :wink:

"nobel peace prize winner was an ass-kicker"...
I look forward to reading it mnaz.

Do you remember when our commander in chief was campaigning for the job, he did his obligatory nod to the Jewish vote, all .o5 percent of it?
When he walked back from some statements he made about Israel and Iran. That was also his nod to the Evangelicals.

It was right after he started wearing the American flag lapel pin.

You know it is the nine hundred pound rhino for me. I am the worst kind of Jew, "hellenized".

I been re-reading Nietzsche seriously for the first time again in thirty years. If I ever had a child by a Jewish woman I would rather the kid read Nietzsche in German rather he had that than a Briss


Onward Christian Zombies marching as to war, Hindu Zombies, Muslim Zombies, Jewish Zombies. The only good zombi is a dead zombie or a Buddhist Zombie.

Obama has been a better fearless leader than Bush so far, that seems to be true. He can make cold blooded decisions of real politic as well as another Nobel Prize winner, Henry Kissinger :shock: :cry: .



I think he is a good guy, but so was woodrow wilson I have heard.
I hope he will to the right thing.
I suppose I am an optimistic pesimist. Is our stupidity really infinite, or did Einstein get that wrong too?

The Iranians have their own "Masada complex", I suppose.
In the war with Iraq they carried their own coffins to the front lines. Not sure where I read that, some magazine. But the image has stayed with me.

User avatar
mnaz
Posts: 7674
Joined: August 15th, 2004, 10:02 pm
Location: north of south

Re: war with iran

Post by mnaz » February 6th, 2012, 3:52 pm

stilltrucking wrote:A lot of capital is invested in sucking every last drop of profit out of petroleum. Can't move too fast. It would not be good for the bottom line. :wink:
ain't that the truth.
Onward Christian Zombies marching as to war, Hindu Zombies, Muslim Zombies, Jewish Zombies. The only good zombi is a dead zombie or a Buddhist Zombie . . . The Iranians have their own "Masada complex", I suppose.
In the war with Iraq they carried their own coffins to the front lines. Not sure where I read that, some magazine. But the image has stayed with me..
religion has its virtues for sure, but it is a pox on the planet in too many ways. including the sacred religion of imperial war. we've outgrown that crap, really. or need to.

thanks jack.

User avatar
Arcadia
Posts: 7933
Joined: August 22nd, 2004, 6:20 pm
Location: Rosario

Re: war with iran

Post by Arcadia » February 6th, 2012, 8:52 pm

I only hope everybody will be enough intelligent and cool to not engage in an a re-new-explicit or whatever war. What else can I do...? :roll:

meanwhile there are disgusting rulers, yeah!: in the american south (well, at least in my country) the jobs-jobs! thing, the government fear to cross too much the line in relation to corporate powers and also the fear to loss gobernabilidad (and who knows what would happen if that happens.... again!) plus the always present local corrupted mafia shorten the perspectives of deeper changes (each day, more visible).
On the other hand I was surprised last week to listen to this Obama´s speech: it seems in USA is still needed to do some kind of catecism deconstruction or something like that... and the christian fundamentalism is felt or viewed for some as the principle obstacle to deveal, defeat, transform, dennounce, question ... too much energy from both sides in that... odd...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av3H0_7H ... re=related

User avatar
stilltrucking
Posts: 20607
Joined: October 24th, 2004, 12:29 pm
Location: Oz or somepLace like Kansas

Re: war with iran

Post by stilltrucking » February 6th, 2012, 9:01 pm

I was going to ask you* if you saw the PBS special last night "Athens the birthplace of democracy" One of the downsides or the dark side of a democracy is "democratic imperialism"

but remembered you don't have a TV*
Poor Nietzsche he considered the ancient Greeks the sanest culture there ever was.


Sorry to go off on a tangent here, or maybe I am pontificating. I mean jesus h christ there must be something new under the sun. !

Interesting factoid, The Greeks had no word for religion. (according to PBS)
Last edited by stilltrucking on February 7th, 2012, 1:25 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
stilltrucking
Posts: 20607
Joined: October 24th, 2004, 12:29 pm
Location: Oz or somepLace like Kansas

Re: war with iran

Post by stilltrucking » February 7th, 2012, 12:45 am

Sorry mnaz
just say highjack but

that was a great video you posted arcadia thank you. It is from 2008, Obama was still a candidate when he gave it. He also made a great speech about Israel and Iran when he was still a presidential candidate. Later had to go before one othe most powerful influence groups in washington and declare that an attack on Israel was an attack on the USA. At the time I wondered where he was coming from? Was it from religous conviction that he was making that statement?
He is twice the man I am, I am not knocking him , I am just skeptical. Maybe even paranoid.
My memory is vague on the details of the Israel/Iran speech controversey in the campaign of 2008. But I think that is the way it went down, first he opened a distance between the USA and Israel, and then he moved to close it when it became politically expedient.
sorry for the ramble

my memory is a joke, I remember something that seems so distant and it was only four years ago the 2008 campaign, but my memories from fifty sixty years ago so pristine.

User avatar
mnaz
Posts: 7674
Joined: August 15th, 2004, 10:02 pm
Location: north of south

Re: war with iran

Post by mnaz » February 7th, 2012, 2:26 pm

well, i wrote the poem. "peace prize ass-kicking" . . .

didn't think i was going to, but i did. i promise, the next thing i write will be more positive, i swear . . .

User avatar
stilltrucking
Posts: 20607
Joined: October 24th, 2004, 12:29 pm
Location: Oz or somepLace like Kansas

Re: war with iran

Post by stilltrucking » February 7th, 2012, 7:18 pm

This bit is from a book about politics in the USA. Nothing to do with all this except that getting support for a war with Iran would probably be a "slam dunk" for the religious right.
If you want to understand America, Haidt suggests that we “follow the sacred.”

http://dangerousintersection.org/2012/0 ... han-haidt/

Nothing more sacred to our politicians than the security of Isreal.
It gets all tangled up in the "end times" screnarios.

I can taste the fear. The fear of God.

I deleted a long ramble to your poem on poetry,
sorry here it is if you want to see it

I deleted this from the poetry board, sorry

Sometimes I want to unfriend G d. Sinner that I am.
but
Fortunately the mighty smitey God of our mothers before us is still on ourside.

We got to got kick ass because God might get pissed off at us if we don't. We don't want be sinners in the hands of an angry God. Or Jews in another holocaust.

I hope our fearless leader reads your poem
Thank you for writing it.

Sorry for the ramble
I been reading Nietzsche again.
Follow the sacred he said, if you can stomach the truth.
The Anti Christ, the Moloch of Abstraction.
Onward Christian soldiers

When he was in Jeruselam he left this note in the Wailing Wall.
I wish him well, i hope will make peace. I am just a well wisher i guess, because I wish us all well, the iranians, the israelis, even the munchkins. Obama is the wiz. I hope he can put off the war for four more years, do it for all our sakes. Or at least mine. Statistically it is almost certain that I won't be around for another four years. I won't live to see a nuclear war start in the middle east. One side underestimates the self destructive drive for martyrdom by the other. My nightmare.

I am so sorry about this ramble, I been smoking too much dope. I think I am so clever when I am stoned.
Attachments
obamawailingwallnote.jpg
obamawailingwallnote.jpg (30.59 KiB) Viewed 1754 times

RonPrice
Posts: 138
Joined: July 4th, 2007, 12:27 pm
Location: George Town Tasmania
Contact:

Re: war with iran

Post by RonPrice » February 10th, 2012, 10:03 pm

This post is somewhat of a side issue in relation to the war with Iran. I've been a Baha'i for 60 years and this post is about the experiences of the Baha'is in that country.-Ron Price, Tasmania :arrow:
---------------------------------------
Iran's Outcast Religion: Jews, Christians and Zoroastrians have rights under the constitution. Not Bahais, By FIRUZ KAZEMZADEH
--------------------------------------------------------------
In some 40 years as a university professor, I have been privileged to teach students who went on to serve their people as senators, ambassadors, prominent scholars and even U.S. president. None of this would have been possible had I lived in my family's homeland of Iran. As a member of the Bahai faith, I would have been barred from teaching freely—and I might even have been imprisoned, as seven Bahai educators now are.

While many Iranian citizens are targets of repression by the current regime, the treatment of Bahais, the country's largest non-Muslim religious community, is a special case. Unlike Jews, Christians and Zoroastrians, who have certain limited rights under the Islamic Constitution, Bahais were declared unprotected infidels immediately following the Islamic Revolution of 1979.

Bahais have faced persecution in Iran since their religion was founded more than a century and a half ago, but it was never as systematic as in the last 30 years. Since the Islamic Revolution, more than 200 Bahai leaders have been put to death. The regime has outlawed Bahai institutions, confiscated their properties, desecrated their cemeteries, demolished their holy places. Bahais are subject to constant state-sanctioned pressure to recant their faith
.
To stamp out that faith, Iranian Supreme leader Ali Khamenei approved the so-called Golpaygani memorandum in 1991. Photo copies describing plans to slowly strangle Iran's Bahai community were made public by the United Nations in 1992. One measure was to deny Bahais entry to universities, thereby impoverishing them intellectually and economically.

Bahá'ís had already begun educating their youth, founding what became known as the Bahá'í Institute for Higher Education in 1987. In Tehran and beyond, Bahá'í professors—unemployable elsewhere because of their membership in what the mullahs called "the deviant sect"—taught languages, biological sciences, civil engineering, literature and even music. Classes were held in private homes, labs were set up in garages, and the Internet eventually provided access to resources abroad.

The institute avoided teaching about the Bahá'í faith or other religions, thus avoiding the possible accusation of proselytizing. It operated quietly but not secretly: No enterprise of such size—with thousands of students and hundreds of faculty—could be secret. No law prohibited instruction in languages, sciences, accounting and the like, so the institute didn't violate the letter or spirit of any law.

The institute's success frustrated the government. In spite of constant harassment, it achieved academic standards equal to or higher than those of state universities and was frequently recognized by foreign universities that admitted its students into masters and doctoral programs.

In 1996 and 1998, the regime raided homes where classes were held and confiscated equipment. In the second attack, agents of the Ministry of Information arrested 36 faculty and declared the institute closed. The regime demanded that the 36 sign a pledge not to cooperate with the institute. Not one complied.

The regime's latest assault began on May 22 with raids on 39 homes. Months later, widespread arrests and interrogations of faculty, staff and students continue. This month, Branch 28 of the Revolutionary Court in Tehran sentenced seven Bahá'í faculty members to a combined 30 years behind bars. Meanwhile, a senior lawyer of theirs, Abdolfattah Soltani, remains incarcerated under suspicious circumstances.

Such repression is extreme but not isolated—Iran's regime targets other minorities as well as women, intellectuals and others. This makes many Iranians feel solidarity with their Bahá'í fellow citizens. In an eloquent open letter to the Bahá'í community in 2009, 243 academics, writers, artists and human rights activists proclaimed, "As Iranian human beings we are ashamed for what has been perpetrated upon the Bahá'ís in the last century and a half in Iran." That year, demonstrators on the streets of Tehran shouted slogans supporting religious minorities, including Bahá'ís . Even Grand Ayatollah Montazeri—once an enemy of the Bahá'ís —issued a fatwa to the effect that Bahá'ís have every right accorded to Iranian citizens.

The rights of Iran's Bahá'ís cannot be separated from the human rights of the general population. That journalists, artists and activists languish in jails; that students are excluded from universities based on their religion; that seven Bahá'í leaders have been condemned to prison for 20 years and seven Bahá'í educators now face a similar fate; that all Bahá'ís are virtual outlaws in their native land—it's all part of a single assault on human dignity. One hopes the rest of the world won't close its eyes.
------------------------------------------------
Mr. Kazemzadeh is professor emeritus of history at Yale and a former commissioner on the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... TopOpinion
-------------------------
married for 46 years, a teacher for 35, a writer and editor for 14 and a Baha'i for 54(as of 2013)

Post Reply

Return to “Culture, Politics, Philosophy”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests