Where Have All the Protesters Gone?

[mtmynd]

This was forwarded to me yesterday. Maybe you've read it, maybe not. What do you think of this..?

Editorial Observer

<center>There Is Silence in the Streets; Where Have All the Protesters Gone?
By ANDREW ROSENTHAL</center>

Published: August 31, 2006

It was almost painful the other night to hear Crosby, Stills, Nash and
Young sing about a war whose purpose Americans never really understood, started by a president who didn't tell the truth and then waged the war ineptly. And that was before they sang about Iraq.

The audience rose for Neil Young's blast at George Bush, "Let's Impeach the President," and sang the words displayed on a huge TV screen, even the 20-something in front of us who had been text-messaging throughout the concert. That same screen also displayed thumbnail photos of slain soldiers while a counter ran up the most recent toll. It takes longer than you might think to count to 2,600.

It was a surprisingly political moment for a rock concert in 2006. But when those four men sang their protest songs four decades ago, their lyrics echoed and personified a powerful political movement sweeping America. Now they are entertainment, something to leave behind in the concert hall.

There were a few political booths outside the Theater at Madison Square Garden. But the concert-tour T-shirt salesmen were getting all the business. The most noticeable sound was the cellphones being restarted by those few who had bothered to turn them off during the concert.

This, perhaps, is the ultimate difference between the Vietnam generation and the Iraq generation: When you hear Young and Company sing of "four dead in Ohio," their Kent State anthem, it's hard to imagine anyone on today's campuses willing to face armed troops. Is there anything they care about that much?

Student protesters helped drive Lyndon Johnson - in so many ways a powerful, progressive president - out of office because of his war. In 2004, George W. Bush - in so many ways a weak, regressive president - was re-elected despite his war. And the campuses were silent.

There was a brief burst of protest when America first invaded Iraq. But if there is a college movement against the war, it's hiding pretty well. Vietnam never had the moral clarity that the 9/11 attacks provided to this generation's war. But in Iraq that proved to be a false clarity, and a majority of Americans now say they oppose the war and no longer trust Mr. Bush's leadership of it.

But because there is no draft - a fact that Graham Nash noted sardonically on Sunday night - no young person has to fear being conscripted into the fight. It is hard to escape the conclusion that Americans find it much easier to stay silent when there is no shared sacrifice.

This war is also largely hidden from American eyes. Unlike Vietnam, when journalists were free to witness and record combat operations, the Pentagon controls access to American troops in Iraq and the images that come with it. The Pentagon banned press coverage of the flag-draped coffins returning home from Iraq. The president refused to attend the funerals of soldiers. Even the cost of this war was tucked from the very start into "supplemental bills" that magically don't count toward the budget deficit.

The pressure to be silent is great. This week, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld compared critics of Mr. Bush's Iraq policy to those who appeased Adolf Hitler. And antiwar protesters are told they're un-American, cowardly and lending aid and comfort to terrorists.

But in the 1960's and 1970's, antiwar protesters were told they were un-American, cowardly and lending aid and comfort to Communists. Then, the personal and national cost of war grew so great that public outrage drowned out this sort of propaganda. Now, people find protesters vaguely embarrassing and don't want to make too much noise. Outside the concert hall, a soldier who served in Iraq and now opposes the war said he wished Neil Young could be more "subtle."

Mr. Young's call for impeachment is over the top, and it's certainly not subtle. But the anti-Vietnam protesters were not exactly masters of subtlety either. Bloggers say there is an antiwar movement online. Perhaps, but it takes crowds to get America's attention. Just look at the immigration debate.

The noisy, annoying, unsubtle leaders of the protest lent courage to the rest of us to cut school and march in a few rallies.

[end]

[e_dog]

a song --
to the tune of Pete Seeger' s "Where Have all the Flowers Gone" in the style of The Kingston Trio

(Verse 1) Where have all the students gone?
(Refrain 1) Long time passing.
(Verse 1 repeated) Where have all the students gone?
(Refrain 2) Long long time ago.
(Verse 1 repeated)
Got their draft cards every one.
(Refrain 3) When will they ever learn, when will they ever learn.

(Verse 2) Where have all the draft cards gone?
(Refrain 1 repeated)
(Verse 2 repeated)
(Refrain 2 repeated)
(Verse 2 repeated)
Burned in protest every one.
(Refrain 3 repeated)

(Verse 3) Where have all the protesters gone?
(Refrain1, Verse 3, Refrain 2, Verse 3 repeated)
Joined the Weathermen, well, at least some.
(Refrain 3 repeated)

Where have all the Weathermen gone?
Long time passing.
Where have all the Weathermen gone?
Long long time ago.
Where have all the Weathermen gone?
GONE TO PRISON EV'RY ONE.
When will they ever learn, when will they ever learn.

[mtmynd]

Great tune! the words, are they pro or con..?

[mnaz]

widespread protest happens when enough people feel the pain of government policy. hate to say it, but people need to be hit over the head in large numbers before sustained protest can occur, especially when everyone is so damned busy working their own niche inside the machine.

the images from iraq are suppressed, our number of war-dead is far less than vietnam (so far), and there is no draft (not officially, at least)-- important differences between now and the vietnam war era.

[mtmynd]

yeah, you're right, mnaz...

...our number of war-dead is far less than vietnam (so far), and there is no draft (not officially, at least)-- important differences between now and the vietnam war era.

The body count from Iraq is hidden... numbers don't transfer into images and our press leans towards the U.S. wounded that speak out and say "I want to go back and be with my troops..."

There are troops out there that are speaking out... using this internet. There are hundreds of thousands using this internet to voice their opinions towards this war, but the country remains in a strange silence. Cindy Sheehan makes the news on occasion, but is viewed little more than an angry woman solely because she lost her son in Iraq.

But where are the college students outrage? Sure they are not facing a draft but aren't they outraged by the lies of this administration about getting us into this terribly expensive war that has no realistic end in sight? It is their future, these thousands and thousands of today's college students, that will pay for this war in some form or the other. Their futures will be not as prosperous as any others that came before them. Their futures will be filled with fear which will lead them into what kind of lives..? Lives that say trust no one... lives that encourage escape into video games, into hollywood movies, into dumb-down music that has not politial message but only fucking fucking fucking.. not even the word 'love' is found. They fear even that one basic emotion, love, as to equate it with loss.

Where are our reporters, our voices that represent the people, that are outraged by all the bullshit that seems to intrude upon our Bill of Rights as citizens in this country that has continually grown forward for 230 years?

Everyone is in fear of losing their jobs over anything else. And what have these jobs really brought the majority of Americans but massive personal debt that they cannot escape from. These ridiculous jobs that have not been sent overseas only because they are not wanted by those overseas. Those service sector jobs are anxiously being taken by illegals at even lower wages. What are today's college students thinking? Haven't they stopped and seen what kind of society they are playing into the hands of... a corporate dominated world that believes it's own personal wealth is the only thing that matters... and people are disposable like parts in the machine - if one no longer plays right replace them. The country is full of replacement parts dying to be used... so they too, can build up their own massive personal debt.

Iraq is not Viet Nam, but our leaders preach the same line - if we don't kill the enemy there, they will kill us here. I heard the same shit in the Nam era and I hear it today. The wars have changed but the fear tactics are the same... it's either them or us. Corporate America cannot stand competition... it weakens their goal to become the only ghame on the block.... monopoly. The game was invented in America and it has been the standard for America. The power in this country will not cease in waging our Treasury and our Defense to attain a world-wide win in Monopoly, where they hold the "Get Out of Jail Free" card, they own Baltic Ave thru Boardwalk, they own the Power Supplies, they own the Railways, the Airlines, the Media, the Food Supply (think of Walmart), they own the Medicine... they own the mortgages on our homes, they own the Credit Cards Companies that millions of Americans owe their soul too.... and this huge power is FREE to continue monopolizing.... thanks to Ronald Reagan, thanks to the Presidency no matter what party... there is only ONE PARTY my friend, and sorry, you, Citizen, are not invited.

[enough]

[bohonato]

You know what else is different between Vietnam and Iraq demostrations? Press coverage. Its not always the citizens who are remaining silent.

Besides, whenever there is an anti-war demostration, you get people who are also protesting capitalism, America, etc. It turns out to be a hodge-podge of protesting. You say protest, and someone's going to bring

1)A Che Guevara sign/flag and
2)A Free Mumia sign/flag.

The protesters can't even agree on what they're protesting. And this discredits the whole thing.

[mtmynd]

Boho... you said -

You say protest, and someone's going to bring
1)A Che Guevara sign/flag and
2)A Free Mumia sign/flag.

Ain't that the truth! The only thing they don't protest is protest. It's 'suggested' by the Neo Cons, i.e. Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rove, et al...

[firsty]

9/11/06 washington DC.

baby, baby. sing me a song.

[e_dog]

boho,

you think the protests in the Sixties were one issue and uniform in their aims?

thats hard to believe.

Free Love, LSD, Down with the Racist Pigs, Make Love not War, Hurray for the Viet Cong, American Flag waving, American flag wearing, American flag burning, Hell no we won't go, Start a revolution . . .?!

[mtmynd]

It's been a long time passin', e_dog, but the 60's was a protest against authoritarianism/establishmentarianism... pretty much those things you listed.

apparently, all is good nowadays.... as long as we can stay plugged in and keep hip-hoppin'.

[stilltrucking]

Do we want peace?
Do we really want peace?
Or is it power we crave?

Cecil what do you know about college students of today?
Where are you getting that information?


"old man take a look at my life"


Subtle
You know we all want a revolution
but if you are walking around with pictures of chairman mao...
How you going to win the hearts and minds
when you go around calling BUsh a war criminal
maybe he is
but it is counter productive to go there
It plays into their hands
You can't shit the shitter
You can't out rove--- rove

So many issues to go for
that will resonate with the american people
Cause when you are running down our country
you are walking on the fighting side of them

there is incompetence
there is the corruption
there is the lies

Who is the war criminal depends who wins the war.


College students are in hock up their ass
with student loans
It is a draft sort of
It is another blue collar war
My nephew keeps bringing up the military as an option cause he can't see no other way to get to college

Just look at the immigration debate.

What about it?
Smoke and mirrors
Meaningless gestures
A distraction
But the marchers had a good time
And it probably helped build some community among them.

[bohonato]

e-dog,

Outside of my statement on press coverage, I wasn't attempting to provide a commentary on the nature of protests in the 1960's. You're absolutely right, however, that there was the same mix of causes. However, mtmynd makes a good point: in the 60's, all those causes were part of the protest against the establishment. Currently, students don't have a large hate/distrust of the government (thought, if the government continues with wire tapping, etc., it may just start). The people making the most noise are the anarchist and friends.

Also, in the 1960's, the medium of televison was relatively new, and not only was the war broadcasted, but you had people who could manipulate the media, from Martin Luther King, Jr. to Abbie Hoffman. The few people who do make the new today, such as Micheal Moore and Cindy Sheehan, are refered to as liberal nut-jobs, and generally treated as jokes. And thats when the media actually gives the anti-war movement attention. Outside of that, the protests aren't in the news.

And, probably the largest factor of the 1960's that is missing today, which has already been mentioned, is the draft. Not only did the students/youth feel a personal threat from the war, but their families did as well. If the draft is reinstated (which may just happen, as the military is hurting from bodies), you can expect the same resistance from the campuses that occured forty years ago. The only reason the draft hasn't been reinstated is that the Bush Administration realizes this fact.

[e_dog]

boho i think you have described the situation quite accurately.

personally, i hope they bring back the draft. i want my very own draft card to burn. just think of all the Fuck the Draft buttons and t-shirts (they do exist, or just in my imagination of the 60s?) that can then be recycled to good use.

this concept of "the establishment" or "the man" on the one hand its a recognizable meme in popular culture but you're right, its largely treated as a comical attitude. We need more respectabe individuals to say Fuck the establishment. college students today want to become part of the establishment, not to bring it down. biut maybe this can change. anybody here remember the Fifties? maybe that's the comparison we need?

[stilltrucking]

The noisy, annoying, unsubtle leaders of the protest lent courage to the rest of us to cut school and march in a few rallies.

Well the problem is right there in a nutshell, college students today lack courage.

The Class of 2006, set to graduate this month, will soon be in the same boat.

Approximately two-thirds of all students use loans to pay for their higher education, according to the Center for Economic and Policy Research using data from the College Board. The average debt for students graduating in 2003-2004, the latest data available, was $15,622 for public schools and $22,581 for private – many students rack up even more on their credit cards.

As recently as 1990, only 46.2 percent of students at public schools took out loans, averaging just $9,798 in 2004 dollars. Private school debt in 1990 averaged just $15,054.

Call it a reverse dowry: college debt diverts careers and delays or impedes graduates' plans to get married, buy a home or even to start a family. The effects can last years.

A 22-year old student graduating this year who consolidates their $40,000 loan at 6.125 percent will need to pay $243 a month...until they're 52. By that time, they will have paid $47,494 in interest alone.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/01/pf/coll ... /index.htm

Palazzolo, 25, graduated on Mother's Day from Rutgers University with a master's degree in public policy and student loans exceeding $116,000. His payments will average about $800 a month. It could have been worse: Because of his top grades, Rutgers paid Palazzolo's tuition for his final year of graduate school.

At a time when his friends are thinking about buying their first homes, he's looking for roommates to share a three-bedroom house so he can limit his rent to $600 a month. "I feel like I've done everything I was supposed to do, and at the end of the day, I've got this huge debt," Palazzolo says. "What did I do wrong?"

After years of rising college costs and shrinking financial aid, it's come to this: Some graduates are now leaving college with student-loan debt in the six figures.

Graduates with more than $100,000 in debt still account for a small subset of borrowers. But their numbers are rising. And the proportion who are leaving college with some level of unmanageable debt — debt they can't repay without significant hardship — is swelling.

In 2004, nearly 8% of graduating seniors carried student loans of $40,000 or more, according to the Project on Student Debt, a non-profit advocacy group. In 1993, even adjusted for inflation, only 1.3% of college seniors had debt that large, says Robert Shireman, director of the project.

About 11% of graduates of private, non-profit colleges have loans of $40,000 or more vs. 5.5% for public colleges and universities, Shireman says.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/col ... usat_x.htm


Yes I was in college in the fifties.
Panty raids were all the rage.

[e_dog]

that's where men wear women's panties?

where'd you go: Queer's College?