What am I missing here?

[Doreen Peri]

LOL!!

[whimsicaldeb]

Hi Jimbo -

you said: "i watched don imus plenty... "

Deb said: ""Anybody who listened to the Imus show, and enjoyed it, were probably bigoted"

Conclusion? You're probably a bigot along with everyone of his guests and his millions of listeners. Welcome to the club. bub!

Nope.

Jimboloco wrote that he'd listened and then turn him off because he was put off by his "stick" (deb, paraphrasing. Jimboloco I hope that's more or less accurate.)

Everyone I know, and work with as well, turned him off, or as you said, never bothered to turn him on in the first place because his 'stick' didn't appeal to us; because his jokes/joking were racist, bigoted, and misogynistic ~ none of which was funny (to any of us).

I agree with Stan Simpson
Greater Good In Imus Exit
May 5, 2007

"One of the realities of Imus and his entertaining and often insulting humor is that he made some folks comfortable with their own bigotry."

<and>

"Although his degradation of the young women will be a blot on his epitaph, the I-Man can also take credit for the long-overdue introspection and self-cleansing these days in the media and entertainment industries.

Recent moves across the country speak to an emerging awareness about the need for standards in regulating offensive on-air language. And the dearth of diverse voices in leadership"

Good things have indeed been happening since this has happened. IMO, necessary things.

I enjoyed reading this commentary from the New Yorker, the last paragraph most of all. It speaks to the greater good that is happening from this Imus situation.

Excerpt from:
Imus Versus Imus
by Nick Paumgarten

One bracket that didn’t make it into the book [“The Enlightened Bracketologist: The Final Four of Everything.”] was Good Imus, Evil Imus. Sandomir had drawn that one up in the hope of tempting Don Imus, the talk-radio host and effective promoter of books, to plug “The Enlightened Bracketologist” on his program. In the end, Reiter and Sandomir, loath to pander, decided to leave it out. But last week, in the midst of a controversy over the most extreme—or certainly most consequential—manifestation to date of Evil Imus, a copy of this bracketological outtake found its way here, and provided a useful prism through which to regard the spectacle of Imus’s immolation.

Over the years, Imus and, especially, his sidekicks regularly trafficked in minstrelsy, anti-gay patter, and ethnic stereotyping, of degrees ranging from the mild to the execrable. He or his minions have compared Patrick Ewing to an ape, said that pictures of Venus and Serena Williams belong in National Geographic rather than in Playboy, and are reported to have said of Gwen Ifill, then a Times reporter, “Isn’t the Times wonderful? It lets the cleaning lady cover the White House.” More broadly, they have regularly deployed an array of slurs (Jewboy, towelhead) and a cast of crude voice caricatures (Attorney General Alberto Gonzales as José Jiménez, Cardinal Egan as an Irish bigot) that, at best, skirted the line. But finally, two weeks ago, Imus crossed it, or at least got called out for doing so. In a discussion of the Rutgers University women’s basketball team, after its appearance in the N.C.A.A. finals, Imus remarked that the players, most of them black, were “rough girls.” “Some hard-core ho’s,” his sidekick and producer (and designated line-crosser) Bernard McGuirk replied. Imus added, inexcusably, “That’s some nappy-headed ho’s there.”

Media Matters for America, a watchdog group, put the offending clip and transcript on its Web site, and in the next couple of days a fury took hold. Imus, initially dismissive, hit the apology circuit, but his grovelling, which managed to seem both grudging and sincere, failed to keep his advertisers and regular guests from abandoning him. (Snoop Dogg, carefully parsing the application of “ho,” distanced himself and his rapper peers from the I-man. “We are not talking about no collegiate basketball girls,” he told MTV News. “We’re talking about ho’s that’s in the hood that ain’t doing shit, that’s trying to get a nigga for his money. These are two separate things.”) The outrage, and the punishments designed to offset it, metastasized, and by Thursday Imus had lost his show. “You people,” as Imus regrettably referred to his tormentors, during a punitive appearance on Al Sharpton’s radio show, had won. Governor Jon Corzine, of New Jersey, volunteered to preside over a session between Imus and the Rutgers team at the Governor’s Mansion, but on the way he was severely injured in a car crash. The summit went on.

“Imus in the Morning” thrived on a high-low diet. Between the wisecrack-speckled news reports and the coarse comedy bits, the show featured interviews with prominent politicians and journalists (including some from this magazine), who were expected to pay their respects not only to the I-man but also to his brother Fred, the program’s self-styled redneck-at-large. In return, guests got publicity for their campaigns or their books, and an opportunity to reveal, to a presumably more sympathetic audience, their irreverent sides—they could be more wry than they generally appeared. Imus either indulged or tolerated them, depending on his mood, but their participation brought him influence and respect. This derived from the airtime, and the threat of haranguing, rather than from any political or ideological inclination. The I-man is not an idea man; although he let his guests veer into politics and policy—an occasional hazard of conversing with politicians—what he really seemed interested in was whether they were talking straight or were being “weasels” or talking “jive.” He’s a curmudgeon, most of all. And, once the guests were gone, Imus and his cohorts could get back to goofing off, and the politicians could pretend to be oblivious. It was a perilous balancing act, but the two Imuses, like John Edwards’s two Americas, managed to coexist.

In the Good Imus, Evil Imus bracketological experiment, the good Imus, represented in the draw by a New Mexico ranch he runs for children with cancer, prevails. On the way to the final, the ranch vanquished Imus’s stint in rehab (for cocaine abuse), his marriage (to Deirdre, who converted him to vegetarianism), his calling Bill Clinton “a pot-smoking weasel,” and then, in the Final Four, his previously undefeated Clinton modifier—“fat pantload.” In the championship, the ranch beat out the best (in this draw) of the bad: Imus’s notorious appearance, in 1996, at the Radio and Television Correspondents Association banquet, where he lampooned the infidelities of Bill Clinton, while the President sat beside him on the dais, fuming. Imus’s Rutgers smear, if it had suited up, would have creamed them all.

What will come of all this? Perhaps one could set up a new bracketological draw, with all the post-Imus implications and discussion topics bidding, like so many Gonzagas and Florida States, for primacy in the league of cultural consequence. Free-speech martyrdom, hate-speech curtailment, black pride, black blame, white guilt, the end of the shock jock, the rise of satellite radio, the imperialism of advertisers, the intolerance of intolerance, the defilement of the public airwaves: you had better begin filling out your brackets, because the tournament is well under way.

[mnaz]

Depends... What does "watched Don Imus plenty" mean? That's a bit subjective. That phrase could mean repeated viewings, which could be taken as signifying an established pattern of intent to view. The point I make here is not to smear Jimbo's rep. but to illustrate that it's easier than you think to manufacture "justifications" to smear someone's character in general. But then you already knew that, didn't you, Deb?

[mtmynd]

Jimboloco, 07 May 2007, writes (followiing SooZen's post):

i watched don imus plenty
i always get up early
his bit about what kind of hat montgomery gentry wears
(or somebody)
phoner calls in and says, "white"
an ol don says,
"no. you dummy
they don't wear a hat"
an hangs up

All this b.s. about D.I. makes me wonder how many S8'ers watched/listened to his show and are afraid to admit it...

[whimsicaldeb]

All this b.s. about D.I. makes me wonder how many S8'ers watched/listened to his show and are afraid to admit it...

Or didn't, and are now afraid to admit that ~ after all this.

But, mtmynd; is it really necessary that people 'admit' anything ~ either pro or con? It sounds a bit like having to confuss our sins.


I don't think it's necessary; I don't need a head count.

Do you?

My POV at this point: Both sides are now represented; and both sides have expressed. Personally, I think that's it ... this phase has completed and others will begin arising.

Personally, I'm excited about the new beginnings. Such wonderful potential.

[mousey1]

I'm just confused as to which side you support, Deb. You've really blurred the line with your contradictory posts.

you are the proverbial pot that calls the kettle black
you can't seem to see the trees for the forest in which you lurk
and what's more I don't think you want to
you have mounted your high horse and from there
look airily around
or at least that's the impression I get

In your condemnations of Imus you easily adopt the very style that you seem to revile. It is contradiction. Perhaps when looking at his behavior you see yourself mirrored there, your awful truth glaring back at you. You have whipped up many verbal abuses here and refuse contrition, in fact seem to revel in your nasty behavior, cozy in the deluded notion that you guide to enlightenment.

"There is none so blind as he who will not see". You do seem to have some peculiar tunnel vision.

Lead by example, that is usually the best course of action. The example you have chosen to set is that of sanctimonious hegemony. And you've lost me completely.

I am very unimpressed with your display here. But I doubt you'll care, too busy patting yourself on the back to notice what anyone else really has to say.

It would be nice, Deb, if you would learn to listen and actually hear instead of putting your words in people's mouths and your thoughts in their heads.

You're so busy looking within and becoming enamored with yourself that I wonder if perhaps you haven't completely lost touch with and empathy for others, well unless perhaps for the purpose of padding your ego. Perhaps you would do well to walk a mile in someone else's shoes instead of calling on everyone else to.

The above are some of the impressions that your behavior in this thread has left me with.

Are your watchwords, Do as I say not as I do? Though even at that confusion would reign I daresay.

Sadly, I don't think that anything I've just said will make a dent, you seem that prideful.

Yikes!

ps: in reference to your previous post to me: I didn't bother pointing you to the areas in this thread where I thought you were cruel and insulting. I get the feeling you are more than aware of these instances.

[mousey1]

Oh, I forgot to mention how very, very large hearted, Hester, mt and soozen remained in their posts. You really kept to the high ground, didn't get down and dirty which I really believe would've been understandable under the circumstances. The verbal stones Deb threw ended up bouncing right back into her own face. I hope she has the courage to inspect them and see them for what they are...slurs. I don't know any of you from Adam, but even I can see that Deb's condemnations of you come from way out in left field.

Loved that song Hester. I'm off to listen to it again.

[jimboloco]

i watched imus a lot
he was fascinating to me in a bizarre way because
some of his comments irked me a lot yet
sometimes i applauded what he said and i felt like i was being forced to stretch myself somewhat to listen and either agree or disagree
he is was an american persona
himself with a mix of feelings and perceptions
i had the feeling that he was really in touch with
the conflict between old school reality
and new and himself conflicted
i don't know how well he could have reconstructed his show after the apologies and intent to reform
but according to gwen iffels he had always done this


in light of this it is sad to see him go
because he was a showman who lost his show
but also glad that yesterday in st pete
7 white cadets in the st pete police academy were booted out
for using racially debasing language
and 60 cops got fired in LA for unnessessary force against civilians
on cinco de mayo
it's about time

[Doreen Peri]

i watched imus a lot
he was fascinating in a bizarre way because
some of his comments irked me a lot
sometimes i applauded what he said
he is was an american persona
himself with a mix of feelings and perceptions

You watched him and you were fascinated with him?

Bigot!

LOL!.. just kidding. Taking the stance I thought Deb was taking.

Trying to lighten it up, yanno?

[jimboloco]

yank my doodle
it's a dandy
what an amazing thread
way over my head
in the undertow
mercy

but i did learn from texas jack
his first deviance from what i thought ought to be a proper reply
to my initial post on this subject, a critique of a column written in the st pete times,
took me into uncharted territory
and there i learned about my own limited capacity to respond
and about my own anger and ability to be self-rightious
so in that respect it was excellent and i have been liberated a great deal by this from a limited and guarded style into one that is more open
and carried this evolution into this thread again prompted by hester's initial post,
which i again felt was not the "proper" attitude
(why all the fuss? she asked)
and so it pulled out this indignant aspect of mine that i was not aware of consciously
and again am greatfull

i feel emptied and humbled
not humiliated
being humbled is good because it means that one is grounded somehow
a more compact base
like being hit with the stick
to wake up

did i say that i watched imus and turned him off?
not all the time
words are tricky
ya know he leaves a big open space

[Doreen Peri]

Scroll back, Jimbo.

Sorry, I would never say that to you. I was referring to Deb's posts.

You can scroll back to read them. Just joking in keeping with the ridiculous statement Deb made when she accused people of being bigots just because they listened to Imus and enjoyed it.

[jimboloco]

i was joking with you too
i took no offense
please
where is my peking duck?

[mnaz]

But, mtmynd; is it really necessary that people 'admit' anything ~ either pro or con? It sounds a bit like having to confuss our sins.

Shit. Are you for real? What happened to Whimsicaldeb's sledgehammer righteousness?... that abusive, "my-way-or-the-highway" laying down of the one and only Truth with a capital T?

My POV at this point: Both sides are now represented; and both sides have expressed. Personally, I think that's it ... this phase has completed and others will begin arising.

Sorry to quibble, but holy shit again. "Sides"? What "sides"? People sorting through the issue, incompletely no doubt, as these things go sometimes, versus your divebombing rancor perhaps?

Personally, I'm excited about the new beginnings. Such wonderful potential.

Well that's nice. And you've a strange way of showing it.

[hester_prynne]

HA HA! Love that picture of the garden hoe with fur. Touche`

I have to say, I am really, what's the word, um, perhaps,
grieved,
to see what I am seeing here on this thread. A person so intent on another's demise, that anyone, anyone who has liked this person, or listened to this person becomes a stereo-type, a Texan, an old man with graying hair, a wife, also a Texan....something of instant devalue because a belief is not shared.
Wow. Off with our heads Deb!!

I can't imagine feeling so glorious or righteous about Imus's or anyone's demise.

I hate it when the media uses one person as the "glaring example". I mean why not use Stern then, he's more well known, and alot more offensive when it comes to degrading women.

I suppose i'd rather be the stereotype than the bigot.
I mean, a bigot is one who believes that anyone who doesn't believe what they believe, is lacking, and not as good as them right? No believey like me, then instant dismissal for you!

Bigotry is a small way of being. Small and brittle and terribly uncollective.
I remember learning about bigotry in high school. It appalled me then.

Perhaps a "poor me victim" to a bigot is someone who is "big" and bendable and totally supportive and outspoken for a better collective. If that's the stereotype for "poor me victim" Deb, then by all means, I'm your girl.

I really wish you could see yourself from my screen. Here you go, dissing folks, feeling above folks; wise folks, who can see more than one side of a human being than you can, people who prefer to remember good qualities and not just diss the person as garbage, like bigots do. Deb, you seem to be taking alot of pleasure in it!

Where is there forgiveness, where is benefit of the doubt. Or does that just make me a "fool and not the loser kind"? A "poor me victim" to ask such questions?

Someday you may need forgiveness, you may need the benefit of the doubt and you may not get it. It may have to be the way you learn a hard lesson or two dear.

Bigotry frightens the hell out of me.
It's like stepping backwards into a lesson learned and known, and undoing it, probably out of fear turned to malice.
Maybe something else I can't fathom, thank God.

I challenge you to keep it light here. Try to look deeper, and really hear what the majority of us here are trying to tell you, without accusations, without defense disguised as enlightenment, without belittling, but simply, because we care, because we all just are.


Mousey, I'm glad you liked the song, I keep playing it too, I don't know it just really comforts me on a lot of levels right now......and thank you for your observations on this thread, they have really helped steer me into understanding more fully what is going on here, it has been really hard for me to believe it.

It's all very rich stuff, isn't it folks? Drink it in, see it for what it is.
But don't carry on like nothing has happened okay? This is important.
This is Bigotry live.

"Human kindness, is overflowin,
and I think it's gonna rain.....
taaaaaday...."
H

[whimsicaldeb]

in light of this it is sad to see him go
because he was a showman who lost his show
but also glad that yesterday in st pete
7 white cadets in the st pete police academy were booted out
for using racially debasing language
and 60 cops got fired in LA for unnessessary force against civilians
on cinco de mayo
it's about time

"...it's about time"

Yep, yep, yep. Sad that it's all so necessary yet glad to see it beginning/happening; imo long, long overdue and another piece of the greater good overall started from his firing.