Page 1 of 1

Litkicks Color Line Debate

Posted: October 5th, 2004, 4:20 pm
by abcrystcats
Since there is nowhere on Litkicks to discuss the topics (or is there one and I just don't know it???) I thought I'd bring my comments here.

I almost posted something on the topic last night, but I'm glad I waited. Everybody's answers are REAL good!

Judih -- I LOVED your piece! So true, and eloquently put.

Lightning Rod -- I think you are right on about class being the new issue, but, why is it a "problem"? As you say, it isn't necessarily about money, but "It has to do with values".

Is that a BAD thing? If so, why? Perhaps the answer has to do with how you're characterizing "values". Anyhow, that just gave me a new idea and I might post to Litkicks after all. See Ya!


Posted: October 5th, 2004, 5:31 pm
by Doreen Peri
that's a problem, for sure, not having anywhere to talk about it.

i think it's great to talk about the topics here.... unfortunately, i haven't seen this one yet, though

so now i'll go over there and look

color lines? what's it about? bigotry? or?

a link would be good, too, btw, Cat, because i don't know about anybody else, but the navigation is very difficult for me over there... it takes me like 5 clicks to get into today's topic

i'll go look and come back and post a link to help others get there more quickly

got a little frustrated with it day before yesterday that i missed yesterday's topic, too... it's so closed in and there's no way to communicate with anybody and my formatting got screwed but i already talked about that... sorry for the repeat

going to look now.... will be back with a link

Posted: October 5th, 2004, 6:02 pm
by Doreen Peri
yay! it only took me two clicks to get in this time... here's the link

i just read lightning rod's post and since you referred to it here, Cat, i thought i'd comment that i disagree with him that parents and family set the "class" of a person

i know so many people who grew up in an upper middle class family structure who have chosen not to go that route, but instead hang out with street people (which is probably considered "lower class", huh?)

and i don't understand how these are race issues but maybe that's what he's saying, it's not about race, it's about class

i don't think today's problems are about race or class

i think their about moral values which are totally exclusive from either

moral values have nothing to do with "class"

money designates class

the only difference between upper class people and lower class people is that they get drunk in more expensive clothes

anyway, i've got a poem brewing in my head on this topic and hopefully will write it and post it over there soon

plus, i'll go back and read some of the other posts afterward so i can follow this discussion if there are more references to other people's posts ..... gotta go read judh's, for instance, since you mentioned it as being so eloquent!

Posted: October 5th, 2004, 6:33 pm
by abcrystcats
I'll tell you how I do it: I just put "litkicks" in my search box and click into the site. Then I click on the "October Earth" picture and I'm right in the topic of the day, with all the essays. I'm not sure if that's what you meant or not. If not, then I apologize.

I'm sorry for not providing the link. I just assumed that everybody who is on here is up with October Earth too. That was dumb of me.

The issue(s) I have with the new Litkicks are: 1) no way to discuss, debate or respond, and 2) the LOOOOONNNGG narrow box on the side! Sheesh! There's got to be a better format for viewing essays and poems than that! Again, maybe there IS a different format and I just haven't found it.

I wasn't sure exactly what Lightning Rod meant, and that was part of the motivation for my question to him. I guess we'll find out, though.

Posted: October 5th, 2004, 8:32 pm
by Doreen Peri
yes, that was the two clicks.... a couple of days ago, it took me more clicks than that to get to the day's question (either they changed something for the better or i got smarter or something.. who knows? lol)

that's ok that you didn't provide the link... it's here now... :) there are quite a few who come here who don't go to litkicks and never did

long narrow box on the side doesn't bother me but i'd really like to be able to comment to the other pieces and make sure my words are published as written

i'll point LR in this direction so maybe he can take the time to explain what he meant

i was only commenting on his statement about "class"

to me, i don't get "class"... i never have.... to me, we're all in the same class and learning every day, we just have different teachers... heh

seriously, though, i hate thinking of society in class structure because i think that negates the fact that we are really all on the same level ... we are human... and that's how i like to think of it

there is a negativity associated with the words "lower class" and "upper class" and "middle class".... those terms don't jive with me other than to suggest different financial situations... all sound negative to me, though

the term "color lines" is a new term to me. I've never heard that term until today.

but to answer the litkicks question of the day which is are today's problems in the world caused by (A) racial differences or (B) something else entirely, I have to go with B. (That's how I interpreted the question, anyway, not quite understanding the term "color line"... I think they are saying "racial differences", right?)

It seems to me the problems of this century (the 21st), have to do with the evolutionary process and moral values. Many people have not evolved beyond bigotry not just toward other races but toward people of different faiths and people who live in different cultures and people who are different in ANY way at all than they are!

There are still people who view the world as a divided planet where people are separated geographically, economically, politically and religiously, and frankly, they want to keep it that way. That's the problem.

Because the world is NOT a divided planet. We are all here together experiencing life. No matter where we live, no matter what we believe in, no matter what our government or financial situation, we are HERE, together, and soon, people better get a grip on the fact that we need to share the world's resources and accept each other just as we are, without trying to change anybody to meet our own standards.

That's where the issue of moral values comes in. Morally, we need to respect each other. Morally, we need to bow down to the human spirit in each other. We need to stop arguing and stop fighting and start realizing the BIG issues which are achieving understanding and acceptance of every person who walks this planet.

Every human being deserves food, shelter, medical care, and especially love and respect. Every human being deserves to have a PLACE to belong. The Palestinians, for instance, deserve to have land to live on that they can call their own. Those in 3rd world countries deserve the attentiveness of those who control the wealth and resources of this planet so they aren't dying of starvation every day. No person should be left to sleep on the street. No group of people should be ostracized by any other group of people based on ANY reason, certainly not exclusive to the color of their skin.

It is time for the people of the world to evolve to the point where they no longer accept war or famine or bigotry.

Call me an idealist because yes, that's what I am. But it is time for a revolution where everyone evolves to be idealistic enough to take care of each other, respect each other, accept each other and love each other.

That's what's wrong with the world. Many people don't understand this, I don't think.

The type of evolution and revolution I'm speaking of comes from within. One person at a time. One relationship at a time. And once this ideology is realized, once these moral tenets are embraced, we will be able to deal with the harsh realities we face every day.

If we have compassion and acceptance and place everyone on the same level spiritually and humanly, we can move forward toward peace, we can move forward toward eliminating neglect and treating disease and giving people the homes and care and love that they desperately need.

There's MY answer to today's question.

Posted: October 5th, 2004, 9:01 pm
by abcrystcats
Very eloquent, Doreen! I hope you posted that to LK too! Very, very good.

BTW, I just took the time to browse through your whole website here and I want (NEED) to compliment you on it. It's a huge, practically comprehensive vision you've got for this place, and it's truly amazing. I have no idea how much work went into it all, but I bet it was a LOT. I love your various quotes on the pages too! Damn, girl! I'm definitely going to stay in touch with this because I want to see how it all looks when you've got all the pages set up. I really can't say enough in praise of what you've done and what you're planning to do.

The "color line" as I understand it, was an idea. If your skin was too dark, you'd crossed it and you'd be excluded from participating in the "white" world. It wasn't quite as clear as the Sneetches with stars and the Sneetches without (God, I love that story!!) because some people with lots of white blood could "pass" as white, and others could not. Your ethnicity was determined by skin color, not by your own identification with this group or that one.

I'd like to ask Levi a bit more about his perceptions of racism as a Jew. I've always thought that with Jewish racism things were a bit more complex (not necessarily better) because Jews aren't that easily identifiable as an actual "race". It isn't a question of skin color or facial features or dress, but somehow once someone identifies you as a Jew you're subject to a whole bunch of preconceptions that ultimately lead to racist ostracism and ARE in fact, racist.

That's why it's too bad we can't discuss on Litkicks. I have a bunch of questions and comments for so many people right now and they're burning a hole in my pocket. Everybody has written such good essays on this, considering the fact that the topic changes every 24 hours and we don't all have limitless amounts of time to respond, either.

If I could do ONE thing to change the new Litkicks, it would be to have some board to allow ON TOPIC discussions every day. The subjects are good and we could all learn from each other if we didn't all have to stay in our separate bedrooms. Oh well.

Posted: October 5th, 2004, 11:02 pm
by Doreen Peri
thanks much, Cat!

i'm glad you enjoyed my thoughts here... and yes, i posted it over there right after i posted it here but it's not showing as published yet

and i do really appreciate your compliments on the site so far... I'm having a fit with it, to be honest... I've got a lot to learn about code when it comes to web publishing, but i'm moving forward and learning what i can

i think the concept is a good one and i hope to get the writers pages up soon.... it will have to be launched one section at a time... there's so much to it

we can always talk here about the topics we are writing to over there so that works ok

thanks for reading mine and i thought yours was very well thought out, as well!

Posted: October 6th, 2004, 12:19 am
by Doreen Peri
No, Cat...

I guess my piece was "NOT PUBLISHED"

Says so right next to it. Oh well.

Hopefully it's a glitch in the software.

We'll see.


Posted: October 6th, 2004, 12:42 am
by judih
Go now for Wednesday's topic.
You will get published.

Looks like the deadline for acceptance of any topic is midnight, or maybe earlier.

But if you leap in at midnight for the next topic, you'll end up within the allotted time frame.

i want to see your name in the bright lights of October. Do me, do us all a favor and press on.

(this has been an unpaid political plea for perseverence in the face of adversity)


Posted: October 6th, 2004, 12:46 am
by Doreen Peri
i posted my piece several hours ago... I think it was 4 hours ago... no, it's not being published. Maybe they'll change their minds? I hope so. I thought it was a good piece.

You can read it above.. .it starts with "It seems to me the problems of this century"

I just posted my answer to today's new question

Here's my answer (in case this one doesn't get published either)


there is something in a shade of grey
that determines the way a truth is viewed,
the way the shadows move from room
to room in between ghost tomb doubts

no blooms on stems,
no blossoms,
no scents come without
a shadetime prior to dawn
when sunlight puts its nurture on
like a cape to wake up chlorophyl
to fill a stem with life -
to feed the awakening

greys come in with veracity,
truths their very breath!

we cannot test the light of knowledge
without the opening of our sight
to expanding black and white
to rainbow spectrums!

truth is always in the grey.
this is the way it was made to be!
it is in the hues of light where
slight awarenesses are made,
shade to shade, blue to blue,
you opening up to me
and me to you.

is defined
like this,
within the kiss
of tinted sun.

Posted: October 6th, 2004, 12:50 am
by judih
parallel thoughts
post here
guaranteed embrace

sounds great, doreen
i wrote something - i forget what

might take 8 hrs or so, but hope to see y(our) name in lights.