objective reality

[revolutionR]

I do not write poetry from the point
of view of some kind of objective reality
I write from the point of phenomena
I don't see poetry as a adjunct to what
is called objective reality

Poetry is a language of other
it might seem to be like about
rules of a certain language
English for instance

We have had enough of discursive reality
we can say the flower is beautiful
or the bird flies, or the gun kills
but those are only descriptions of things
but what does it really tells us

that we don't already know
a poem that tells us what we already know
no matter how how good at describing
of things, is not really poetry, not really
if it has some unique way of seeing things
that allows a certain suspension of belief
then it comes closer to the poetic subject
because in the end we have only subjects

objects are what we are writing toward
but we never actually get there, or if we do
we only have some variations on a theme
one persons perception of what happened
poetry is not concerned with mere definitions
of mundane reality, we are inundated with
such, facts, a rock is a rock is a rock
a word is word is a word or a ghost
or as Breton said, a rose is not a rose

even if you place seemingly disconnected events
or things together, and put into verse, it still is
not subjective enough, remember even if there
is some objective reality, which the illusion
of putting one word in front of the other
does not really prove, other then to make
a kind of objective illusion, some thing eluded to

it's the ability of the subjective poet
to put words into some kind of trance
to make illusions of illusions, to inquire about
what it is that we can't really explain, it's the thrust
of the non argument, the simple allowing words
to speak, without interfering with meaning

[sweetwater]

the question of objective reality
i like this paroxysm

particularly

the poem represents itself
objectively

as language and poem and poetry

as object

what you are referring to
and to what you are doing and reading

i am replying to the object of poem
the objective reality as poem

as in you are writing poetry
and you have written and created

a thing
or object

as to what the poems references

whether as literal or metaphor

it relates a referencing of ideas
etc

as subjective

or the subject of the object of poem poetry

painting etc

the subject of your poem

relates that you do not write
about objective reality

but you have written
conserderably

about objective reality

though you are referring
and referencing

ideas and issues

that are the subject
and subjectivity

of your object and objective
represenation

[sweetwater]

the point of view

relates the point of view
of the object poem

as style

post modern
seemingly absent in rhyme
absence of meter

free flow and the absence of form
in the context of metre or meter

as in haiku
with its strict form
of syllablization ( if i can syllable-ize )

almost entirely metaphoric

ironic in the context of literal

it literally
was a poem you wrote

and you literally
were referencing

issues relating to how
metaphor

relates the literal representation
of metaphor

...

i counted your syllables

that's a strange phone number

[sweetwater]

today was the kind of
day that most words
seem to discover the sky

and walk in the sun
to sing
the song of colour and joy to say

this
moment now
( syntactical absence of syllable as line )
free

[revolutionR]

I did not study poetry in school
I took a class in poetry
I did not study it

I became it
not in the sense that we know tenses
and pasts, not in the categories
of usage, sentence structure
all those objective words
used to make objects of them

saying that a poem is an object
is like saying that nothing is nothing
you cannot make something from nothing
but you can make up arbitrary lists
of things in the world

call it what you will, being is seeing
and of course, words are things
language is who we are, or are not
to be or not to be
that is not a question
it is a object we cannot grasp

[WIREMAN]

lets cut to the chase...whats up here?.......i was digging ur censored poem now its gone...it was all the interaction that the internet is supposed to be about.....i posted there, although i dont understand why any 1st thought poet would put there stuff there.....rR your work is meant to b read alive....in that essence it is pure and powerful, u should not have to justify your heart and soul writing to those who wil never understand......

[WIREMAN]

yeah i was wondering.....there was a lot of energy going on in that thread...

[Doreen Peri]

Craig... I liked the first poem at the beginning of this thread and really LOVED the reply poem you wrote even more... ... I loved "I did not study it/ I became it" ... loved this whole thing! Bravo!

I did not study poetry in school
I took a class in poetry
I did not study it

I became it
not in the sense that we know tenses
and pasts, not in the categories
of usage, sentence structure
all those objective words
used to make objects of them

saying that a poem is an object
is like saying that nothing is nothing
you cannot make something from nothing
but you can make up arbitrary lists
of things in the world

call it what you will, being is seeing
and of course, words are things
language is who we are, or are not
to be or not to be
that is not a question
it is a object we cannot grasp