Note re: poem entitled "Lobotomy"

[Doreen Peri]

judih - Thanks for the explanation. Excellent post! Well said. All you really missed on the original thread was people chatting about who wrote the line "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy" - Tom Waits or Dorothy Parker... some more talk about other things people were interested in talking about .... light stuff, people just talking to each other but not talking about the poem. Tote wanted them to discuss his poem. It's a common complaint.

.....

Tote - You know what strikes me as interesting about this whole situation? It was you, wasn't it? Yes it was! You were the one who used to post under another name that starts with P and complain all the time that your posts were being deleted. It was you who have continually had a problem, through the years, with moderation/management of posts of any sort. You didn't want posts moved. You didn't want posts deleted. You said that those in the position as administrators were dictators of some sort. You called them nazis and preached free speech. Remember? Sure ya do!

Now, I deleted your thread for you because you requested it and I wanted to be accomodating because, as I said, I go to boards where I can delete my own threads and I understood your desire to do that.

Just commenting on the past because obviously, given our previous conversations in this community and at Litkicks, we should all be able to understand why people don't want posts deleted and why they are having a problem with me deleting your thread.

[Totenkopf]

You said that those in the position as administrators were dictators of some sort. You called them nazis and preached free speech.

Not that relevant: moderation--especially the subjective, hysterical moderation of the LK clowns, er clownettes--- is not the same as allowing writers' control over their own threads. It's not inconsistent whatsoever to allow writers to have control over their own threads, especially on a "Creative Writing" board, and protest censorship of the Asherian sort as well.

I have a blog and post all over the Net: most BBs allow writers to modify and delete posts. Your ware-set up, which arguably encourages trolling and meaningless chitchat, is not the "norm." OK, on your General Discussion and most other topic threads it's not that big of an issue: on "Creative Writing" it is. (I don't intend to post any additional Creative writing here).

In fact, I think writers on LK should DEMAND the right to control their creative writing posts: in terms of allowing and/or deleting or blocking comments. However, I don't really lose any sleep over this: cuz, really, kids of this: Poesy, c'est Mort.

[Doreen Peri]

As I said before, VBulletin software has a setting that allows regular users (not moderators) to delete threads which they started. phpBB does not have that option. It's not about what's the "norm" on the internet. All software packages are different. I do agree with you, though, that many boards do allow this..... but I do not think it's "most" boards. At this time, we don't because the software doesn't allow it. Sorry.

I've posted a request on the phpbb for information about whether a mod is available to do what you're requesting. I'll let you know when someone answers me.

I've also offered you your own forum where you would be a moderator and can control all of the posts to your heart's content. You haven't answered.

[Lightning Rod]

totenkamph,

If you have a blog, you can do what you want. You can delete at will and accept or not accept comments.
If you are going to try the 'grand exit' routine, go for it
it gets little mileage around here

this is not a blog
this is a discussion board
that means that we discuss

and I'm just enough of an old cuss
to want that tradition held in trust

[Totenkopf]

Nicht. You have a General Discussion board, and other topic threads where lack of control is not an issue. On the Creative Writing thread, it IS an issue, regardless of how many people protest, or don't. Literature is not the same as discussion; and allowing people to block/delete/moderate comments on their own Creative Writing threads--literary threads--- is perfectly reasonable; in fact, it's MORE reasonable than automatically allowing comments from any and every one.

Literature ain't equal opportuni-tay.

[joel]

It seems there are unequal assumptions being discussed.

Totenkopf makes strong arguments for how a Literature thread ought be used--namely, with literary thought and analytical skill (which may not be shared among us equally). A Literature section of S8 probably would be better off without willy-nilly spur-of-the-moment comments. Totenkopf seems to identify the Creative Writing section as a Literature section. (In my mind, I tend to assign those qualities to the Interpretation threads.)

Lrod makes strong arguments for how conversation ought be used--namely that the responses of those who read Creative Writing shouldn't be lost because they don't fit an original piece's author's intent. Lrod (and his camp) seems to indicate that high polished Literature is not the goal, but rather creative interaction where any thoughts that are brought to mind are in essence Creative and (due to the nature of the site) also Writing.

It has been my experience that the Creative Writing section of S8 has generally been met almost the same way as General Discussion--with the important caveat that the discussion is begun from creative writing and spins off into orbit more-or-less literarily from there.

I don't know how much work it would involve and since I do none of the work, I'm not in a place to make demands...but would this conversation (which my years of counseling think ought to be praised for its avoidance of triangulation) benefit from creating a section for High Literature?

I'm a part-time rhymer and not a literary gift...so I'll speak for myself that I enjoy the mix of creative read-and-respond wherever it goes. But I'm also only one voice on a site on which I was invited to participate, and not to govern. I recognize the gift of S8 in my life--this is not a democracy where I get to vote or the people get their way. This is someone's time and design in which I've found a treasured home to play within the rules I have no right or place to dictate.

That's my polemics for the occasion. All done.

[Doreen Peri]

Actually, joel, that's where you're wrong.

This IS a democracy! Absolutely, you get a vote! And everyone else does, too. That was the whole purpose of Studio Eight is to create a site which was for the participants to "own," meaning they could decide what they want to do with it, even to the point of having their own forums. Would you like one, btw?

The "Interpretations" forum rarely gets used. I think your idea is a good one. Perhaps we can rename it "Critical Analyis & Interpretations" or something like that. And we can write an intro that tells people it's for more polished works and that the discussions on the threads need to be about the works posted, not about anything else and let them know that if their posts go off topic from the poem, they may be deleted at the request of the author of the original post.

Plus, we could move the board higher up on the page so it gets more attention.

Just an idea.

Should we vote on this?

[ms67]

sounds like a good idea to me, not that i would go there to post any of my ramblings (rhyming or otherwise). something that suggests "high brow/intellectual/academic activity" etc doesnt exist here explicitly already does it? why bother to vote ... why not just set it up and see how it goes? and, as you say, bump it up the board so that folks notice it.

on the general theme tho, is the problem we are discussing here a common issue, or is it as rare as it seems? i kinda like the informal feel here, i was concerned that sticking "my" wasabi vid in creative writing was inappropriate and would generate some caustic responses as a result. i didnt see the u-tube forum at the time otherwise it would have gone there.

btw; joel for president!