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To hell with "Love the sinner, hate the sin"—
Posted: October 17th, 2007, 11:18 am
by joel
To hell with Love the sinner, hate the sin—
trite lyrics of the Tempter-Angel’s myth
that seem compassionate to bigotry
with dualistic possibilities
of virtue in the hearts of judges, but
discretely sanction hatred nonetheless.
Of one who perseveres in sanctioned hate
is love at best a two-faced fractioned trait.
If Love thy neighbor calls on faith to bless
its enemies – if all have sinned – then what
is gained by Sinner-You identities?
O clever maxim of idolatry—
no hate is yoked to perfect love as with
a perfect love is only love therein.
Posted: October 30th, 2007, 10:12 pm
by mnaz
Hmmm... One might say, "depends on the nature of sin", or "what is sin?".... Can mass-murder be loved? Got me thinkin' anyway...
Posted: October 30th, 2007, 10:35 pm
by joel
mnaz wrote: Can mass-murder be loved? Got me thinkin' anyway...
Touche. But then again, I still can't imagine that sanctioning hate does anything mroe than allow hate to be sterilized and acceptable. If there is a proper and sanctioned allowance of hate, all we ever have to do is prove that the people we hate are sanctionably hate-able.
Maybe the question rotates around the nature of love (Hallmark and Valentine's Day cards and cupids aside). How do we or might we love in such a way that the question of hate--even for heinous acts--is not the central question?
Maybe it's a pipedream...but I'm afraid we're letting ourselves go...we can hate too easily...just prove the hated thing is demonic, anti-democratic, etc. ...so easy to hate so many peoples/persons/nations/countries...so easy to go to "just" war against such hated folks....
Posted: November 24th, 2007, 12:36 am
by Maggie
To hell with Love the sinner, hate the sin—
trite lyrics of the Tempter-Angel’s myth
that seem compassionate to bigotry
This is facinating to me . I put very little stock in the idea that none of us possess the ability to be like Christ ( falling short and all that ) The passage in the Bible that says " be ye perfected like me " has always held my interests . I put the question to a friend once " What if Jesus was just a man and each and everyone of us possess the ability to be just like him . What does that do to the dogma of ~ We all sin ~ and crap like ~ The devil made me do it ~ etc etc ? " LOL ! Just some of the thoughts you fine writing sent running through my head .
Posted: November 24th, 2007, 6:28 am
by e_dog
He's Back! Ladies n gents, jOEL they said you disappeared.
not sure i can figure out the meaning of the post just yet, 'cept that mnaz has misunderstood it, methinks.
later.
SINNERZ ALL!
SINN = Sense (German/English Meaning)
Posted: November 24th, 2007, 5:05 pm
by mnaz
yeh, I do that alot.
so let me get this straight.... is a newborn a sinner upon drawing his first breath?.... must be... "for all have sinned and come short..."... created as incapable of sin-free and held to a sin-free standard by the creator... sounds a bit rigged to me...
Posted: November 24th, 2007, 5:31 pm
by e_dog
yes, yes.
First Sinn, Original Sin.
Being Born.
puttin' the mother thru all that pain n discomfort. just for selfish survival.
Maybe when theres true test tube babes they be free of sin.
but not of sinnung.
Posted: November 24th, 2007, 8:23 pm
by Totenkopf
Sinn und Bedeu-dung!
Rilly if Sinn, or Sin works as the Vater Joel and Khrist, Inc, says it does, Gott sort of knows exactly what his boy-bots do, a priori as it were. So how is it Sssin if the Humanoid simply does what its Creator already determined it would do, back when He sort of designed spacetime? Xtians of course insist one cannot even presume to assess the Creator (or the existence thereof), but that's about as silly as saying one could not judge a mad scientist who designed murderer-robots, and then let them loose, and they performed as He programmed then to. Freedom's merely another word for following orders. Thus, "belief" reduces to credo que absurdum---- and/or Joel and the Volcano. (btw whaa happened to Joel the Pious, and his sanctified poesy? Hmm. He must be out performing good works and such)
Posted: November 24th, 2007, 9:17 pm
by e_dog
so, what the problem, T-kopf? you've solved tha riddle.
Gott ist a madscientist designing murderer-robots [humans]. the latter behave sinfully. kiddies misbehave. parents don't know what to do.
blame theparents? Maybe. Blame God?
Sure, but he got lightning bolt. Not a good bargain.
More generally, all the theological paradoxes of evil and sinn und such assume that God is nice and fair. Atheists trade on that to argue for inconsistency of theologians doctrines. Fine. But what the hell reason we have to assume that?
If God is a psychotic killer, everything begins to make sense....
God don't play dice. He plays billiards, while doped up.
Posted: November 24th, 2007, 9:50 pm
by Totenkopf
If God is a psychotic killer, everything begins to make sense....
Percy Byatch Shellay sort of ranted along those lines, diddn't he, along with other poetical fruits, probably going back to like Gilgamesh. Either psychotic killer o nada, or some pantheistic play of forces. Really GottSpeak's mostly an easy way to stir up bogus angst at this stage. Nietzsche sort of offed Him, if the romantics, Darwin, and french rev. didn't. He has some nice mausoleums tho'.
Posted: November 25th, 2007, 3:16 am
by hester_prynne
Hate IS the sin folks.....
H
Posted: November 25th, 2007, 12:08 pm
by jimboloco
i got a quote from a poem by shelley
i'll be baaack
oh yeah
To suffer woes which Hope thinks infinite;
To forgive wrongs darker than death or night;
To defy Power, which seems omnipotent;
To love, and bear; to hope till Hope creates
from its own wreck the thing it contemplates....
art and alienation, herbert read,
rational society & irrational artchapter2
Posted: November 27th, 2007, 10:40 pm
by e_dog
"Atheism is the comfort of desolate souls and withered imaginations...."
Posted: November 28th, 2007, 2:57 am
by mnaz
Atheism is passe... just so September 10th..
Posted: November 28th, 2007, 10:11 pm
by e_dog
"September 11th is the fascist's winter solstice."
God don't exist?, you say? see this:
By JUSTIN JUOZAPAVICIUS, Associated Press Writer 37 minutes ago
TULSA, Okla. - Richard Roberts told students at Oral Roberts University Wednesday that he did not want to resign as president of the scandal-plagued evangelical school, but that he did so because God insisted.
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God told him on Thanksgiving that he should resign the next day, Roberts told students in the university's chapel.
"Every ounce of my flesh said 'no'" to the idea, Roberts said, but he prayed over the decision with his wife and his father, Oral Roberts, and decided to step down.
Roberts said he wanted to "strike out" against the people who were persecuting him, and considered countersuing, but "the Lord said, 'don't do that,'" he said.
After submitting his resignation, he said, for "first time in 60 days peace came into my heart."
Roberts spoke for only a few minutes and was applauded and cheered by students. He wiped away tears with a white handkerchief and his hands.