Studio8 - Uniting the Arts

There’s no Bahá’í, but heretic of Islam
no Muslim, but heretic of Christ
no Christian, but heretic of Israel

no Israelite, but heretic of Esau
no Edomite, but heretic of Isaac
and one who laughs is heretic to Ishmael and Hagar

and one who wonders to hear, to see, is heretic to Abraham and Sarah
and one who wanders is heretic to Eden
and Eden is but heresy of formlessness and void

and nothingness is heresy of holiness
but holiness is heresy forgiven
yet holiness is everything forgiven

but holiness is given for heresy
yet holiness is given for everything
till nothing holy’s named its heretic.

Joel, you will see that this has had ten views. I am sure seven of them were me. I keep reading this hoping to find a response. I have been unsuccessful. I am so ignorant of all religions, that this left me completely adrift. In a sea of non understanding. I usually read and enjoy what you write, but this one left me confused.

heretic is in the stars against the void
in the wind against against silent peaks
seems everywhere and nowhere

Excellent poem.

my poppy is a like dat
i tired of literature
and many women
loved poppy
just awile back
i wanted love too
rebellion ave me freedom
left alone to sense
a round creator s creations
curious if relations could
seal and deliver me
instead lessons or work
sailed boats on my eyelids
tranquil water
i rest on quests
beyond feelin
poppy drowned in my tears
years of mystery
now done
if visions come
ok let it be free

Joel, I disagree with the narration of the poem. All the belief systems listed are
valid to those who believe in the dogma. Folks who point the finger of heresy
are just afraid to co-exist with different belief systems. Namely, unless we open our minds, I assume that is the final premise, we are all heretics in one way or another. That is assuming that all religions have the same liberal premise.
All religions don't. I agree with the final premise, if it is "live and let live".

There are religions, within your cataloging, whose more radical members want to eliminate those with different belief systems. Heresy is a way to silence differences in approaches. One example was the Spanish Inquisition.
Here, lately, radical muslims have chased off native Christians from Bethlehem.
The politicalization of the Holy Land--holy, I might add, to THREE religions, has
put a bitter pill into the mouth of collective humanity. I am for disarmament of
the shrine participants, and for the United Nations to protect those who want to visit and worship in the shrines.... Be the shrines: Jewish, Christian or Muslim, etc. The muslims are a lot less open to visitors to their shrines. How may a religion get earnest converts if they are not allowed to visit the shrines in question? Yes, there ARE Bahai's! I heard that you are a minister. What faith do you minister for?

Sorry if I am more intense than usual; but, Joel, you've written a very
thought provoking poem. I, too, have an interest in theology.

Literal Truth
As the sun sets, heaven turns red.
In the beginning was the word,
so the universe is something God said.

We can fly a rocket to heaven,
but can’t see where to land it.
The word of God is literally true,
but no one can understand it.

As the sun sets, the quarter moon trails.
We search for God in the universe,
but the devil is in the details.

i knew Creator
loved me
i did not
was i able to see?
were moments of clarity
spiritual western unions
pony express of ancestors love?
tan, tropical, breezes
propose beauty, elemental natures
tyin me to some awe struck flavor
ceremony dusted my site
eyes filled
, tears, joy....
no mirrors, no tricks-
real unconditional life of love
trustin all i cannot see

Steve Plonk wrote:I disagree with the narration of the poem.

...

Here, lately, radical muslims have chased off native Christians from Bethlehem.

...

Yes, there ARE Bahai's! I heard that you are a minister. What faith do you minister for?

...

Sorry if I am more intense than usual; but, Joel, you've written a very
thought provoking poem. I, too, have an interest in theology.

Steve, thanks for reading and sharing...

I'm in intense disagreement with the narration of the poem! So, thanks, I'm glad I'm not alone! But I did write its narration...and on some level, I'm sure I agree with it too. Often what I hold as true is a lie in someone else's eyes, a heresy of her/his faith...and vice versa. I do believe in "live and let live"...but I also struggle with holding my own passionate beliefs that form my only reality that are odds with the comfortable realities of others. It's a postmodern life. Both faithfully pluralistic in respect, and respectfully exclusive in faith. Go figure. Makes no sense to me...but I think the divine is most often alogical.

I've got a sibling living a few miles outside of Bethlehem these days, and many friends from the area--Muslim and Christian; and I have many Jewish and Christian friends and family members living along the coast in Israel. Everyone seems under pressure and I don't often hear one group lay blame on another for the tensions that persist so strongly. My faith holds all the holy lands' peoples as children of Abraham...and I have to believe the bosom of our father breaks at anything chasing any of his children as much as I as believe Our Father's heart breaks within the intimate knowledge of losing a child whose life has been dogged.

And yes, there ARE Bahai's (and Muslims and Christians and Jews...and so many other valid human beings who are sisters and brothers in addition to their divergent convictions of faith).

As for me, I am a Christian (one of the many adjectives that gives my male, white, educated, native-born-USAmerican life immense and irrational privilege in this world). And my love for the one I know as Christ gives me the strange opportunity to minister in the name of a god whose religion and mine are at 'heretical' odds with one another.

If theology is "faith seeking understanding"...then I'm truly glad to have you seeking with me, Steve. Peace!

Creativesoul and Hollweg--thanks for sharing gorgeous thoughts in beautiful language. Dadio, thanks for kind words of support! HT, mnaz, Steve: thanks to you all!

my poppy is a like dat
i tired of literature
and many women
loved poppy
just awile back
i wanted love too
rebellion ave me freedom
left alone to sense
a round creator s creations
curious if relations could
seal and deliver me
instead lessons or work
sailed boats on my eyelids
tranquil water
i rest on quests
beyond feelin
poppy drowned in my tears
years of mystery
now done
if visions come
ok let it be free
now he will be franked stein
i will once again be bothered by family= and nothing will change