Hormones

[theirishsea]

Hormones
or the Whore Moans
and morality
is bent to hell
and all would be alright if
some fool centuries ago
didn't seek sensation with a camel

camels are ugly
no wonder the priests remained celibate
life in the desert was too gritty in the knickers
plus camels are ugly and have no feminine charm

and then there was Rhea
the gone rhea
and then some were fascinated with her pees
no wonder good old-fashioned physical sex
of the indiscriminate kind was unkind
and got a bad name
the shame of a camel-humper!

discussing this is disgusting
in an optimistic world
where the marmalade is laid out in its bowl
so daintily
the ladies card party would faint at such unruly ruling thoughts
or maybe a few vulgar ones would laugh
hysterically
or maybe when sex is a joke
it has to be humorous

so many are hot and bothered
and don't forget the first principle
of union is communion
and the propagation of the human race
and God they get us so neurotic
trying to preserve the health of the tribe
so much shunning of the shun words
fornication masturbation

adultery is one too that's shunned but
it ends in divorce

in Europe the whores roam the streets
like licensed drivers
here in the Puritan U S of A
they run red lights
and primp for pimps
and it is so Victorianly dirty

love?
sometimes it makes its way to the street
but it is usually behind closed doors
a gown dropped to the floor
a belt unbuckled
a little shyness and much familiarity
clenching in the trenches of passion
and a lot of gentle roughness
like a symphony at its height
of woodwinds and violins and percussion
the spring of percussion
from the mountains
falling crystal from the rock

and so the race increases
day by day
and little babies are cute
though a mess to change

maybe the disenchanted
the possessed
search the streets
to have their fantasies fulfilled

[theirishsea]

I offer the poem above hopefully as some kind of entertainment but the real reason I'm posting this today is because I'm shut out at the Poetry Zone---Algonquin Table on the thread of my poem Magic. I will post critic (?) John Clare's response which seems to end the discussion AND then my response to his second communication with me. If somebody, maybe under the pain of death or censorship at least, will post my response somewhere on the Algonquin Table. Censoring is the refuge of a Putin.

[theirishsea]

John Clare's post on August 19th. Addressed to me.

Oh dear. How I misjudged you. I took you at your word when you said you wanted criticism. I thought I had discovered the beginnings of a style beneath the muddle, and sought to tease it out. I thought you would at the very least spend a day or two looking over my suggestions instead of coming back without a thought with nasty minded petulance because I had dared to criticise so great a mind.

I won’t bother to read or comment on your stuff again. But if you think it is “brilliant” to quote yourself, then send it to a publisher. Send it to a poet you admire. See what they have to say. Those who succeed in the difficult art of writing only do so after years of study, craft and help. I think you are foolish to spurn help so freely given, but it is your loss, not mine.

I have helped many published writers, and been helped myself by the best. That’s why I can earn my living writing.

I assume you are a teenager. You write like one, with pomp, bombast, redundant words, repeating because the words you use even you clearly think are not enough. As you grow older, you may appreciate real advice. The points I have made would be made by any reputable teacher or true exponent of the craft. Usually I ask before criticising because so many writers have big egos, but you asked on site. If you don’t want advice, don’t ask for it.

You are lucky to have someone give you time, anyone, but especially someone who has been rocked to sleep as a baby by Dylan Thomas reciting his poetry, and has sat, quite literally, at the feet of poets such as Ezra Pound and Carl Sandburg and had the benefit of their wisdom and comments on my own verses to name just two. Unlike you, I listened, and learned, and it never entered my head to pretend I was brilliant, or to not only spurn, but insult someone trying to help me. I won’t trouble you again. You are clearly not yet emotionally ready for advice.
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[theirishsea]

My response to John Clare.


The expected response, John Clare. I would have been delightfully surprised by anything different. You didn't offer constructive criticism. You offered demolition. It sounded to me as if you were a hired hand by someone who thought I was too uppity. Adolescent? What are you? Mature? You didn't read my very mature end to the response to your original communication. No. You are just a schoolyard bully but not one with any weight or power.

Do you write for a living? A great number of people do. That doesn't make you a poet or perceptive literary critic or a decent human being. For all I know you may write advertising jingles though I doubt that. There doesn't seem to be much good playful humor in the infinitesimal meeting of minds that we have had (two). Perhaps you write travel articles or feature articles for small magazines. If you can earn your upkeep, more power to you. I hope you are a success in your world and social circles. Poetry? Here at dead man's bluff? (try a metaphoric leap on that one. What is he referring to and why?)

And if I'm called out as adolescent, do you call out a few others at this site for being nasty? Just plain egotistical and mean? If you do that, with sincerity, maybe I'll give you a second thought.

Oh, I forgot. You won't read my response.

[theirishsea]

Sorry guys. I tested the water in a couple of places in a couple of ways at Algonquin. I'm definitely being censored. The last refuge for scoundrels.

I will go quietly from that accursed website but not like this. They are evil.


yep, totally shut out. Tried another tactic. Tried posting the poem above.

[Doreen Peri]

We've all been censored there, our posts moderated before they appear, sometimes locked out entirely for a period of time. The bullies run the show. The owner of the site encourages them and discourages (by censorship) any type of intelligent retort to their insults. Most of the time, the censorship/moderating only lasts a short period of time. Nobody gets an email or message from the admin/owner to tell us what we did "wrong". It's a dictatorship which supports bullying and harassment. Try not to let it get to you. Evil? Yes. I agree. Very sad.

I continue to go there because there IS some rich poetry there and talented writers and there ARE a few kind people who are supportive, even when offering a critique. But when it gets to me and makes me upset, I stay absent for a long enough period of time.

There's really no reason to go to places at all where we are treated shabbily. Human beings deserve respect. There is no respect there. Sorry to know you were talked to in such a demeaning way. It's a shame you aren't being allowed to speak back for yourself but it doesn't surprise me. The owner wants that type of ridicule on his site. I guess he thinks it brings traffic. Who knows?

[Doreen Peri]

PS. I really like your poem.

[saw]

classic example of a full-of-shit pompous critic that throws a rock when your back is turned, and darts back into his cave, as if he was never there......and censorship is the tool of a coward...

your poem is creative and entertaining....shows a maturity probably too sophisticated for Big John....shake it off Danno...head for higher ground...I left Algonquin long time ago....i went back once and posted what I considered to be one of my better poems, and didn't get a single response while the clique was drooling over absolute schlock ...see ya later alligator....I'd rather play with myself

Doreen, i thought the administrator at Algonquin was a female.....might be confused about that....in any case....sayonara..

nothing gets my goat like that alpha dog pretense that seems to be reserved exclusively for critics of writing, they clearly over-edit their responses until they sound mean enough....ugh

[Doreen Peri]

Steve.. the original owner/admin of the site at the dot com address was a friend of mine, Maree. She closed the site down several years ago and one of the members (a male) now owns and operates the site at the dot net address. She allowed him to take the database to keep it going. The original site was totally different than the current site. Maree wouldn't allow such bullshit with people insulting other people. Nor did she ever use a censor tool to stop people from standing up for themselves. She also used to post here but I can't remember her old screen name here at the moment. Maybe it will come to me later.

Your post above is terrific. All of Dan's posts are also terrific. It's a shame members aren't allowed to stand up for themselves and tell the bullies off. That's just the way it is. Every site is operated differently.

I'm breaking my own rule here. At the top of the forum, I ask that people not talk about other sites on this site. Oh well. It's OK. It will slide down the page eventually.

[the mingo]

doreen - i think she posted under the name ... & i'm not as sure as i'd like to be about this - perdida? -

[Doreen Peri]

yeah yeah yeah.. that's it.. Maree was Perdida here.. thanks, Mingo! xo

[theirishsea]

Doreen, I'm still banned in Boston, er, Algonquin. I tried to post a compliment to Jeffrey's point "Pan's Magic", which I think I inspired him in the writing, probably to show me up or offer instruction on how to write. I did not say that in my attempted compliment of his poem. I said I thought I might have been an influence in his inspiration. However, I'm still censored in general. I can't offer 3szu (3zu?) a belated Happy Birthday. General censorship across the board at the moment.

"Hey Lou, let it go." Was a line one of those frogs said in a Budweiser commercial some years ago. I am. I do hope to be able to revise my poem "Magic" in a couple of days and post it on Algonquin, then fade on into the night over there. I wonder if I will be able to do that or if Stalin will prevail.

Hey, my compliment to Jeffrey was legit. Read his poem "Pan's Magic". It is pretty good. It reminds me in a way of a 19th century academy painting, maybe something by Jerome but you have to give the devil his due.

I'm really not that impressed with John Clare's Schrodinger's Cat poem. His poem is an intellectual doodle. Leaves me indifferent except I'm not a fan of this contemporary John Clare. It is a shame that I'll always recall the Algonquin John Clare when I read or read about or hear the mention of the 19th century John Clare.
A confession: my post on AT John Clare's thread was to probe my censorship the other day, not an enthusiastic approval of his brilliance.

Some of you are groaning---my wife would be if she were following these shenanigans. I'm letting it go, though I hope to get the chance to revise "Magic" on Algonquin. I will post whatever future revisions occur here, but AT is the battleground.