Just the Tip of the Iceberg

[mnaz]

Like I say: We the People have serious ISSUES if we can elect this guy in the first place-- and then keep defending him! A major Red Flag to say the least. I mean, as recently as a few months ago, we were staring down the barrel of reelection as a very real possibility-- if the economy stayed strong! That's quite disturbing to me. And if T survives the Inquiry somehow, I STILL, even now, don't trust US to vote him out.

Either the Democratic Party is complete garbage, or Right Wing brainwashing and/or Greed Culture have reached pandemic proportions, for such an entrenched portion of the US population to keep supporting what's gone on in DC for over three years now. I just CANNOT feel too encouraged that it's taking the effing cia to get serious about ousting this man for all his shit! That was OUR job. Are we up to it?

And yes, I've got plenty of bones to pick with the Democrats. The last 2 terms were much too militaristic for my tolerance, with escalations of our involvement in three Middle Eastern wars! Not to mention those secret drone bombings. We needed health care, but instead got some bastardized hybrid deal with the Corporate Devil called "The (not) Affordable Care Act," which really nobody was too happy with. But at least it was something... I dont see why it's all that shocking to say "lesser of evils" when we're forced to choose between two Parties sold out to Corporate control, separated only by degree it seems.

[saw]

well, i guess I'll add my 2 cents which is probably worthless given you can't buy a damn thing with two pennies

when folks think of tribalism, i believe they mostly focus on race, religion, ..ethnicity...But, hyper partisan stances can become tribal as well.
Our Founders feared this type of political loyalty....John Adams, in 1780.....wrote that the "greatest political evil " to be feared in this country was " two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerning measures in opposition to each other ."......sound familiar ?

And so....here we are 239 years later with exactly that.....pretty smart guys, those forefathers..Now, we can argue about how we got here, but shouldn't miss this salient point....I feel when we get caught in the minutia of debating whether there is or isn't a 'deep state' we fall prey to to distractions.

These distractions may be contrived or not......but we mustn't be diverted too long because while the left hand is getting your eyes to follow its movement, the right hand just stole your watch from your wrist. If we get hung up on details, we may miss the utter gridlock in DC, we may not get as agitated that the average citizen has little if any representation in Washington......just as an aside...ie....they have fabulous health insurance on Capital Hill. ( and make a damn good salary )

In the end, despite your party affiliation, i believe we have a lot in common....don't we all want good healthcare, good schools, safe neighborhoods for our kids to flourish in, and good paying jobs...That truth, as it were, transcends the schoolyard, name-calling, bickering of grown men and women we elected....consequently if our needs are not being addressed....our concerns.....it really doesn't matter is there is an R or a D behind your name...

both parties are beholden to powerful corporate interests....and we shouldn't minimize that....no one gives you a boatload of money not expecting some kind of a return...each citizen can make what they want of that information...the really important question to me, is......is Washington functioning for the people....or.........Or, is is just watching this tug-o-war where the white flag in the middle of the rope doesn't move all that much as it applies to the needy masses.

[mnaz]

Thanks Steve. Well said. Tribalism, greed and power-lust above everything else. And "they" would have you believe it's the American Way ... Well, maybe it is. Or at least its darker truths are being unearthed, if anyone cares to take note. Trump is obviously an unhinged, utterly self-absorbed Attila of his time, dangerous as hell, maybe the biggest Asshole ever (at least in the top Ten). This is all fairly obvious, even to some of his supporters. But the bigger question, it seems to me is: how could this guy ascend to our highest office to begin with? How degraded are our national institutions? How decrepit and despised and buffeted by fringe extremes are they, for this to happen, and then keep on happening? For over three years?

Forget I even mentioned "deep state." Yes, that was distracting. Only tangentially related to what's going on. Well, in reality not even that. I've got plenty to say about it (our spy stuff in particular), but that's really a different topic.

[Doreen Peri]

The reason why he ascended into power is because those who watch Fox TV and listen to conservative talk radio have been brainwashed by propaganda. They don't hear any real news. They don't know what's really going on. Of course, I may be giving a large segment of the population too much credit by giving them an excuse and believing they've been brainwashed. Maybe they're just all idiot assholes like he is. I'm telling you, I never knew there were so many racists in this country and worse than that, that some of my friends were among them. It's been a difficult 3 years, that's for sure.

As for this:

I dont see why it's all that shocking to say "lesser of evils" when we're forced to choose between two Parties sold out to Corporate control, separated only by degree it seems.

Really? "only by a degree"? You really think that? I think there are HUGE differences between the two parties. We are separated 180 degrees, in my opinion.

[mnaz]

Actually, that's probably the main factor. Without the rise of a massive Right Wing-dominated media empire (in the last 30 years especially), where any attempts at fact-check are either nonexistent or just disappear into a giant Black Hole, then this probably never could've happened. BUT ... I think it must be more than that alone. It must've been a "perfect storm" of factors all adding together at a moment in time to eke out a Trump "victory" (he did NOT win the popular vote). I know people who aren't racist, but voted for this guy purely for perceived economic/financial/tax benefits (which ties into "America, the Wealthy" self-interested voting trends). I know a couple of people who voted against Hillary because they thought "it was time to shake things up" (I'm not kidding). These are the "swing voters" who could hose themselves off and tell Trump to GTFO next election. If he's still around.

[stilltrucking]

A vast right/left wing conspiracy ?

You betcha, yes Virginia I do believe in spooks.

I am glad this thread has legs, it should go on and on
this is no waste of time this is the poetry board on studio eight

Passing thoughts about the novel It Can't Happen Here.[S.Lewis]

It hurts too much to try and think like Trump, so I try and get inside the head of his true believers. Far from me to judge anybody I am just another face in the crowd if I stare too long into the mirror I see I am no better than Trump. And just as afraid of dying,

sorry about the ramble I thought this was a pretty interesting take on Trump supporters.

How to Sell Your Soul to Donald Trump
Mike Pompeo is just the latest lackey to teach a master class in moral surrender.


Pompeo is an evangelical Christian, steeped in the very dictums that Trump has spent a lifetime mocking with both his words and his deeds. And Pompeo has long believed in the importance of American military intervention abroad, the kind of activist role that Trump railed against during his campaign for the Republican presidential nomination.

In fact Pompeo, who was then a congressman from Kansas, supported Marco Rubio — and publicly praised him, while disparaging Trump, just before the state’s Republican caucus in March 2016. As Susan Glasser of The New Yorker recalled in an excellent recent profile of Pompeo, he sounded an alarm that Trump would be “an authoritarian president who ignored our Constitution.” He urged Republicans to come to their senses and resist the lure of the surging Trump campaign. “It’s time,” he said, “to turn down the lights on the circus.”


But the lights continued to burn bright, so Pompeo just put on a clown suit, put away his ethics and finagled a big role under the Big Top.

He had plenty of company in that transformation. It’s the wonder of the Trump era and one of the saddest, scariest themes of the impeachment inquiry so far: the teeming crowd of sellouts and suck-ups who eagerly traded principle for position and are in some cases doubling and tripling down on that transaction, to a point where it’s fair to ask if there was ever much principle to begin with.
Frank Bruni
By Frank Bruni

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/05/opin ... y%20Review

[mnaz]

Hypocrites, sellouts and sycophants. To the almighty $ and power-lust. Hard to find strong enough words sometimes.

[stilltrucking]

the bastard sons and daughters of godless humanity

Strong words are few and far between. The strongest word I can think of now is poetry.

I used to love that poetry and politics board on LK although as I remember it Levi had his doubts that too. Kind of a waste of his time moderating it.
Not problem here at studio eight, we older and wiser now.

[mnaz]

See, in the desert there are no politics. It is just you and the planet. And I cherish that.

[saw]

how many think we can be guaranteed a fair election ?....the Diebold voting machines can be tinkered with without anyone knowing anything happened...then you have deliberate voter suppression where eligible voters are knocked off the lists , then you have gerrymandering where lines are absurdly drawn to favor one party.....and of course we now know the Russians interfered with the last presidential election....It does little good to think you are on the side of the "good guys" when it's so easy to manipulate the outcome of an election.... We must focus a lot of energy on ensuring these irregularities get fixed....once again as the masses quibble with the R and D behind the name, it may all be a moot point....once again, like deep state, distracted by making sure we are different than the other party....personally I have voted Democratic or Independent my whole life, but now have more questions about the system than whether I've chosen the right party....I worry more about the bickering between the parties that make us ineffectual...Just saw Scorsese's first documentary Street Scenes newly released after 50 years...it's raw...it's a story told by the folks themselves within the massive NY demonstrations to stop the Vietnam war.....If we as country turned out in the streets like that, I believe a lot more could be accomplished than
waiting and hoping we picked the right person for the White House...this linear thinking about good guys and bad guys is once again another distraction....
I seem to be focused on these distractions more than anything else these days.....

[saw]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/ ... sa.comment

[mnaz]

Well it was a nice idea at least. This "democracy" thing..

[stilltrucking]

I have a better idea. Lets privatize the electoral system. We could turn it over to facebook and whoever gets the most likes wins. Or make it an auction on eBay. Hard for me to believe we can't turn it around, I must sound like a be a pollyanna cowgirl optimist in my old age

the bell jar why would i think of that


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0zj7Xse85s







/

[Doreen Peri]

I'm not giving up the idea of democracy. What has happened is horrible and extremely unfortunate, but the system is being tested and I am optimistic! I truly believe our system which includes checks and balances will succeed eventually (sooner, I hope, rather than later) and will rid this country of the corruption which is clearly evident with the current administration. GOOD will always prevail over evil. It HAS to! And it will! I am a diehard optimist.

Things take much more time than they should.

(Except for life which is short as hell).

[mtmynd]

I'm not giving up the idea of democracy. What has happened is horrible and extremely unfortunate, but the system is being tested and I am optimistic! I truly believe our system which includes checks and balances will succeed eventually (sooner, I hope, rather than later) and will rid this country of the corruption which is clearly evident with the current administration. GOOD will always prevail over evil. It HAS to! And it will! I am a diehard optimist.

I sure I'm not the only person who agrees with this comment, Dor'.... Truth will always outlive Lies and Deceit.