Good Gaza!

Commentary by Lightning Rod - RIP 2/6/2013
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stilltrucking
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Post by stilltrucking » January 13th, 2009, 10:46 pm

Image



Gaza's amazing tunnels to Egypt

The weapons are coming from Iran and they come into Gaza through Egypt.


I did not see the confirmation hearings for Hillary Clinton today.

i wonder if anybody asked her this:

United States policy has failed with respect to Israeli-Palestinian peace. The reluctance of any American president to act as an honest broker in the process, rather than as a strong, unquestioning friend of Israel, has contributed to this failure. How do you propose to bring success to the peace process?
from the nytimes op-ed page.

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Post by mtmynd » January 13th, 2009, 11:25 pm

((thinking outloud...))

So Iran builds these rockets... they get smuggled into Egypt then go thru the tunnel system into Gaza along with damn near everything else that's not allowed. If Palestine wasn't under siege the tunnel system wouldn't be necessary (except possibly for weapons), I would guess.

So if these rockets are being manufactured in Iran, Israel most likely knows the whereabouts of the plant(s) that does the work. Why wouldn't they make a strike against the plants, if Iran does the rocket making? Hmmm... Maybe the rockets come into Iran from another country... China? Korea?

Professor Google, may I ask for your assistance on this? :)

Thx, truck. I have a deep appreciate for a man who gave up being a suicide bomber to better help the unknowing know.
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Nazz
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Post by Nazz » January 14th, 2009, 6:31 am

Tony, again, you make points that you can't back up as to the Palestinian people "allowing" Hamas to do whatever it wants with full approval. As I understand it, the election of Hamas in '06 was not by a wide margin, and it was due more to a sort of desperate rejection of the PNA and its failure to improve the Palestinians' situation more than anything else. Perhaps the needless Western aggression of BushCorp. in Iraq also helped radicalize the region in general. Muslim bloodshed and suffering in Iraq was at a peak in early 2006.

Aside from your somewhat cavalier and disrespectful tone, my main complaint with your position is that you argue the conflict only from one side (hence my "FOX News" characterization). You fail to acknowledge any wrongdoing or obstructionism by Israel that also has contributed to the bitter conflict.

Furthermore, you seem to imply that if one doesn't specifically renounce Hamas rocket attacks in every post that they must somehow be tolerant of terrorism or some such thing. Bull.

Israel has been in non-compliance with UN Res. 242 regarding return of land seized and occupied since 1967, and even if you rationalize continued occupation of that land until a peace agreement could finally be reached, the sustained and sometimes aggressive building of settlements thereupon is clearly in violation of international law.

During the Oslo talks in the '90s, settlement expansion was particularly aggressive and according to many observers a key factor in why those talks ultimately failed. True, some of the settlements have been dismantled but most have not, despite Israeli promises to do so for decades now.

I won't defend Hamas; they tend to be rejectionists and absolutists and sometimes put their own agenda above the Palestinian people's welfare, and ideally Hamas' narrow interests need to be politically marginalized and rejected for the greater interests of all. But Israel has engaged in its own share of obstructionism and mendacity in the conflict, and I'm sorry, but bombing the shit out of Palestinian residential areas for untold weeks and killing and maiming thousands of bystanders just isn't going to get it done for either side. Screw that.

I found a pretty good blog discussion on the Palestinian-Israeli situation that gives a good background education and outlines POV's from different angles on each side. A few of the posts are by long-winded lawyer types, but I think it's pretty instructive reading:
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/20 ... straction/
Last edited by Nazz on January 14th, 2009, 2:56 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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one of those jerks
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Post by one of those jerks » January 14th, 2009, 7:01 am

The qassam rockets are homemade, just a steel cylender filled with sugar and nitrate and TNT. The longer range Grad are a Russian missile made in Iran now.. What interests me is why Egypt allows the tunnels to be dug. Another interesting point is why does Iran supply missiles with a range of 20 miles. Hell they got missiles now that can hit Europe.

Not to underestimate Israel's existential threat from her neighbors. My point is the mistakes that Israel has made. I would expect them to be smarter. Have a better class of politicians but why should I expect more from Jews than any one else. My racism I suppose.

Another interesting point is Israel's unilateral withdraw from Gaza. Fatah says they wanted to negiatiate the withdraw, and the turning over the greenhouses. Israel says that there was no one to negotiate with. Miscommunication?

what is the point of even talking about all the missed opportunities for peace

There was a time when I would take the Israeli governments word for anything. Now I see it as just another government, no mater how Holy the Land is. They have their own share of stupid politicians.



While Israel planes are flying across Iraqi air space to hit the factories producing the Grad missiles they might as well go after those nuclear plants too?

According to the news Israel asked for bunker buster bombs and permission to fly over Iraqi air space but Bush turned them down.
Last edited by one of those jerks on January 14th, 2009, 7:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Nazz
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Post by Nazz » January 14th, 2009, 7:15 am

Yes. So many missed opportunities. That's for sure.

As for the bunker buster bombs, I read today that Israel does have them, and that they are in fact being used now.

I guess I lied when I said I wouldn't speak any more on this issue. Oh well.

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tinkerjack
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Post by tinkerjack » January 14th, 2009, 7:31 am

It is all hindsight
I get depressed
For example
Israel's unilateral withdraw from Gaza.

Maybe if they done it bilaterally with Fatah negoitiating the hand over of the greenhouses. Not all the greenhouses were destroyed. Some of them produced good crops the first year but there was no market for them and no way to export them. Maybe Israel could have workded with them more

Just bits and pieces from my fragmented memory take it with a grain of salt but that is the way I remember it.

What could have been. Opportunities for cooperation missed.

Unilateral actions not bilateral, no spirit of friendship and cooperation. Fatah is the good n*gger now, Hamas the bad boys, but Fatah got the destruction of Israel in their charter too. What the fuck?

I lied too
They say this will all end before Obama takes office next week.
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tinkerjack
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Post by tinkerjack » January 14th, 2009, 8:47 am

Interesting Link Cecil, did you read this link off the same page.
Bill Moyers on Gaza

What we are seeing in Gaza is the latest battle in the oldest family quarrel on record. Open your Bible: the sons of the patriarch Abraham become Arab and Jew. Go to the Book of Deuteronomy. When the ancient Israelites entered Canaan their leaders urged violence against its inhabitants. The very Moses who had brought down the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" now proclaimed, "You must destroy completely all the places where the nations have served their gods. You must tear down their altars, smash their pillars, cut down their sacred poles, set fire to the carved images of their gods, and wipe out their name from that place."
Kind of what you and Clay were saying about the Hatfields and McCoys.

One problem:
what I have read is that the King James bible got the sixth commandment wrong.

Rabi Somebody speaking to a Christian group about the sixth commandment and an error in translation from the Hebrew. for the words kill and murder.

Thall shalt not commit murder is what it should say. Self defense is killing not murder he says. And they are not commandments either. They the ten "utterances" . THere are 613 commandments in Judaism but not those.

As if I knew the bible, I am an ignorant Jew boy. By father an atheist but still called himself a Jew. The women in my family all wanted me to have religious education, my father spared me that. May he rest in peace.

They say unless you have a bar mitvah you have not become a man.

I been saving up money for my bar mitvah, never had one.ain't that a kick, sixty eight years upon my head and I am still a boy.
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stilltrucking
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Post by stilltrucking » January 14th, 2009, 11:23 am

Say Clay
you being pretty quiet.

700 views on this thread since last week
pity you are not making a five cents a click on this one
*************

I am not smart enough to figure out murder/kill Clay
I think about the Friend you mentioned on another thread

I was raised to not pick fights, but if someone picked one with me i was told to go for a weapon, always something lying around, a brick, a two by four whatever.

It is dense, as if I have more than one brain,
some lower brain, a reptilian brain maybe
down deep in the brain stem.

as if all the brains in our phylogny are encapsulated in our skulls

I would like to believe in evolution
Cultural evolution
because despite all our efforts to genetically change ourselves with the thousands of chemicals we add to our food and medicines we still can not evolve fast enough to change our biological kill it, eat it or fuck it natures.

Cultural evolution
I am praying for a smarter bunch of Israeli's if the present generation of leaders doesn’t totally fuck it up.

I am going into the priesthood
figure I might as well

You probably won't be hearing from me for a while.
I have to a vow of silence.

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mudshark
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Post by mudshark » January 15th, 2009, 6:44 pm

readn your notes here. and im impressed and relieved about your skills on this issue. good to see some skills. foregn affair wise.

and then i looked up cnn.com just noe to watch the plain pics of the hudson river, and i glimpsed at the 10 hotest news cases, and...

did you know, and im asking out of cuiriosity, that Israel bombed the UN headqrters and a fucking hospital today?

or hasnt it come through?

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Doreen Peri
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Post by Doreen Peri » January 15th, 2009, 7:00 pm

did you know, and im asking out of cuiriosity, that Israel bombed the UN headqrters and a fucking hospital today?

or hasnt it come through?
oh shit

i hadn't heard this...

what's wrong with these people?

omg

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mudshark
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Post by mudshark » January 15th, 2009, 7:01 pm

btw, the hudson story was amazing. looks like your luck is turning.
new shit has come to light. we rutn for ya, America.

mtmynd
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Post by mtmynd » January 15th, 2009, 7:10 pm

hello, mudshark. a nice surprise seeing your friendly name here. how is Norge and love treating you in 2009?

i'll have to go see this news you've reported. thank you.
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mudshark
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Post by mudshark » January 15th, 2009, 7:33 pm

Hay emti and dorry!
im fine again now. it was all part of some plan. or was that 'scam'?

mtmynd
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Post by mtmynd » January 15th, 2009, 7:57 pm

we don't scam around studio 8 , muddy... bad luck, you know? ;)
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mudshark
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Post by mudshark » January 15th, 2009, 8:08 pm

well, since the time of bewilderness and rainbows out of mind, like i said in so many ways; new shit has come to light, man. new shit.
started twisting round my ways and thinking bout the water around me instead of the mud. thinking bout the good stuff. i dont care if it sound new age, but im receiving some good positive vibrations from... i dont know. dear i say the univers? i dont ask about where it comes from. but ideas are thoughts, man. and if theyr good, they can happen. and now i think about the good shit coming from the bad shit. and i learn shit, you know.
yeah, i know i aint gone religious or anything.
dam guys. ive missed the hell out of you.

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