Immigration Situation

[abstroint]

I don’t have a problem with Clay’s humor. You know who else pulls this sort of humor off? George Carlin and Bill Maher. LR didn’t take the moral high ground and spit on everyone he saw as below him in an earlier debate. I can tell you I didn’t think the cloning comment was funny either. Clones are supposed to be genetically the same as their donor. They would have the same rights as others. Corporate slavery isn’t bad enough? Removing an unformed fetus is morally wrong but forced prostitution is ok?

I hadn’t heard about the St. Louis. Thank you for sharing the link. My step-grandfather (the only grandfather I knew on my mother’s side) emigrated from Latvia after WWII. I think I wrote you about him somewhere. He was forced to join the Nazi’s when they came to his family farm threatening to kill his family if one of the sons didn’t come with them. He went to save his family and ended up being a motorcycle messenger. The first time he saw US troops he drove toward them, got shot while yelling that he surrendered. He was taken to a POW camp here in the US. After the war he was asked if he wanted to stay and become a US citizen. He stayed and lived the American dream. He was a union worker at GM, owned rental properties, and traveled the world. He was a great man and more excepting of other people and their cultures than anyone I knew at the time. Still, he was a Nazi POW after the war. Jews wanting to save their lives aren’t welcome but a Nazi wanting not to suffer communism is free to become a citizen? I don’t know if you noticed or not but I haven’t been arguing against immigration, more against those who control the borders. I lost whatever I was debating when I attacked the messengers anyway. Point is that things are not so rosy here anymore. The city I live in, the same one my grandfather lived in and many people prospered in for so long has a majority population living below the poverty line now. There is a bit of shady good news for the city. The Kalamazoo Promise, it’s a program that sends all the kids with a c average and above to college tuition paid. The shady part? It’s a bunch of rich investors in the city (Kalamazoo at one time had more millionaires per capita then any city in the world) wanting to spark economic growth and eventually push the poor out.

I think I might be coming down with something, NAFTA has been sounding good even though GM may go bankrupt, and there will soon be no good jobs for American citizens. Ever wonder if the real reason the borders are tightening is because they don’t want US citizens to leave? There have been a lot of banks and stores robbed around here. American citizens are too spoiled to take this lightly, to numb to act before it’s too late. I’m having a problem making the connection between corporations benefiting and it trickling down to benefit any nation’s people. Wal-Mart’s owners are billionaires and they were claiming that giving employees benefits would be too much for their company to stand. No, they were thinking this…I give benefits to all these maggots and I might have to give up my fifth vacation home…How dare those bastards demand anything…they should just be glad they have jobs at all. Maybe so, cause I don’t see globalization become the ideal I’ve always envisioned it to be. I see corporate powers getting stronger, and people everywhere being enslaved whether they can cross the borders or not, they won’t be able to take the time off from work because there won’t be vacation time, or sick days, or…unless people everywhere see how strong they are and walk out at the same time. I’m thinking that maybe someone who organizes union agreements needs to travel outside the states and start some sort of global union workers association before we’re all living under oppressive conditions. If we’re all oppressed it makes it more difficult to help others rise out of oppression.

[stilltrucking]

If we’re all oppressed it makes it more difficult to help others rise out of oppression.

I been missing jota a lot. I remember one of the last things I read by him. Something about

once enslaved never free.

I cant remember where I read this?

Are you young enough for revolution.

I should not have replied to this string. I just don't care enough.

The war is my priority issue number one.


e-dog is right, nationalism and sham demcoracy is what we got,

so how do we deal with it

I think the only way they are going to keep the show going is with a nice long war. I am attacking messengers cause the sweet voice of reason is leaving me cold.

Cyndi this was one beautiful well writen strings you brough to the verge of tears with that bit about your grand father.

sorry about this gibberish of mine

[jimboloco]

Go for it. Your crowd is small. It only looks big from your angle.

What's that quote from Margaret Meade?
Only takes a small group of committed citizens to make a change, like and then we got millions of Latinos out in the streets and wait until May Day. Viva la huelga!

Lets say that we try the draconian approach.

Go for it. Your crowd is small. It only looks big from your angle.

Now that applies.

[iblieve]

I am reading this after George Bush's speech on Immigration ,and you know what, that fucking idiot is on to something. Use the National Guard to do the prep work, paperwork etc and free the border patrol to catch and detain illegal immigrants. Set up an ID system and fine employers for hiring anyone that doesn't have the ID card. Let the poor people of Mexico come in and work and at the same time keep control of the borders. I really think that Mexico should pick up the bill for any health care provided for these people that come here under this program unless it is a work related injury and then by all means let's pay for it. If they bring their wives to work and they get pregnant here well let Mexico pay for that. I say this because under Bush we haven’t been able to take care of the handicapped American, the autistic or the elderly and I am all for taking care of the people here firsts.

I use to think I was an optimist until my wife Dandylion pointed out my pessimistic nature. I truly believe that like Rome we are destined to fall, and the crash will be heard around the world. Fuck worrying about illegal immigration, you better be learning how to grow beans and potatoes and milk a cow. Learn how to shoot and instead of going to the local gym to work out get a hoe and dig up the ground the old fashion way. If the country falls you will need these skills and if not it is relaxing and makes you healthy. Bring on the invading horde and let this motherfucker fall before they enslave us all and then they won’t need the slave labor.

Thanks LR for your insight and ability to get your message across.
“C”

[jimboloco]

Well. I believe that your perspective in living off th land is particularly endearing to those of you lucky to live in the great northwest.\

If we allow for guest workers, then we need to hold the employers to the same standards as American workers, or we will have virtually legalised slavery. I mean, the restrictions on the guest worker programs is such that those workers will be tied to a specific employer, may not leave and move elsewhere, and be required to fulfill time of em,ploy obligation, so that is a condition ripe for abuse. Plus we need to cover anyone who is here in America with basic health needs. Period.

Dark man, you scare me a bit. Don't get entrenched into a negative rut.

[iblieve]

Well acording to the government we can't pay for the simple needs of the american people so why should we pay for immigrants coming here to work. I say take care of the american citizens first and then take care of others. I do agree with you on the workers program, they should be paid well, they should have the right to leave and go home and they should be treated under the law the way american workers are. I am not saying that I dislike immigrants, I am simply saying through my wife's work I see many a poor autistic person getting left fucking behind because the government won't fund them properly. I see the training and help they need vanishing because the government pays little more than minimum wage to the people that teach and train them. Example, my wife is a highly skilled motivated professional who is the supervisor of an autistic training center and this year she recieved a six cents raise from the state the first raise in two years and the people she cares for had their benefits cut 25 percent. I will say it agian take care of american's first and if there is any left spread it around. All these people screaming for the rights of the immigrants ought to be screaming about the injustice done right here at home to our own citizens. Aint heard a word out of no one about that.

ibleive

[jimboloco]

Well that has always been the problem, the common folk are pitted against one another for scarce resources, because most of the big wampum goes to the military-industrial complex, not for human needs, so go figure.

[stilltrucking]

Go figure is right

What rights do mere flesh and blood people have against imortal beings like corporations?

What have they squandered in Iraq. Not to count the life. I can 't hardly go there.

Well how about this, you go fight our wars for us and we will give you citizenship and many jpromises.

Crazy Mike come in at Elis Island just in time for WW1. Got his citizenship in the Merchant Marine.

sorry cindy it is friday night and I am in a rambling mood. I got to reread your post again.