Sunday Stream (15) ~ Death Stalks the Planet

[Doreen Peri]

Beliefs are a matter of logic, or rather illogic.

huh? hehe ....ok zozo

The rest of what you said made sense but not that sentence. Why didn't you just say you agreed with me that beliefs were *not* a matter of logic?

Of course skeptics have the right to voice their opinions. But if the skeptic is basing his questions on logic and asking a believer of whatever tenets why he or she believes the way they do, to expect them to provide an answer based on logic is illogical.

*shrug* it's that simple

[perezoso]

Let's put it this way: if someone tells you he/she saw, say, an apparition or ghost or miracle, but you have never seen one, never read any study proving the existence of one, never met any one you trusted who saw one or believed in one, then don't you think the logical thing would be to disbelieve the person claiming he or she saw a miracle or supernatural event? Yes, it would. The rational person bases his belief system or "schema," as it were, on inferences from what he perceives. There are no good grounds for believing in supernatural or mystical events; thus, the logical thing is to disbelieve in those dogmatic systems ( religions) based on supernatural events.

To be honest, I have read a few "parapsychological" studies ( most of which are total BS) which give some slight evidence for ESP and psychic phenomena, but the findings are far from conclusive.

[stilltrucking]

How do you ( or we) know that your mystical visions are not the product of a mental illness, Rasputin- Tex?

I must have missed the visions part. I don't remember reading anything about visions.

"Philosophical writers will long continue to discuss the old pseudo-questions. But in the end they will no longer listened to. They will come to resemble actors who continue to play for some time before noticing that the audience has slowly departed. Then if will no longer be necessary to speak of "philosophical problems'"

"Logical positivism holds that if you cannnot test or mathematically prove what you say, you have said nothing. Positivism works out well for scientists and mathematicains sinnce it allows only them to speak. Everyone else utters "meaningless" statements about the world and life and morals and beauty. Problems of God and metaphysics and goodness and value reduce to mere 'pseudo-problems." questions asked by those whom language has misled, those who do not know what counts as anwers."

Oceanic feeling, have you ever stood on a mountain top and looked out over the ocean. And said, wow look at all that water

I believe there is a higher consciousness, and I think the lazy bear knows that too, but he seems to equate G-d with

the invisible man who farted out the universe.

[perezoso]

ST: I believe there is a higher consciousness, and I think the lazy bear knows that too

Not really. Political and economic problems could quite easily be solved or lessened by rather simple strategies..say raising taxes by 25% on the very wealthy...or something like that. Banning big hideous SUVS. Putting into effect entitlement programs guaranteeing everyone a job or at least living wage. Creating cheap and accessible college and technical education.

An ethical economic system is not a matter of "higher consciousness. " Mysticism is, unfortunately, not what is needed, nor is any big notion of hippie-like "love"--that "love" usually turns out to be really a matter of economics and survival anyways: As Bierce said, men may be defined as "good providers and bad providers ."

Some may swoon poet-like to wildfwowers or the sand on the seashore or mountain majesty or to a very beautiful actress but swoonin' don't put food on the table, comrade.

[stilltrucking]

http://www.litkicks.com/BeatPages/messa ... ent=418699

little pitchers have big ears, never stop to count the years
ARBEIT MACHT FRIE

Krakow-Auschwi
Above the gates to the Workman's Circle Cemetery
Kreis-Kirchhof Des ArbeitersFor almost sixty years I have thought that my my grandparents were from a little village near Krakaw. Now I think I must have heard something about a village in Poland and it wasn't their old home. I think I heard the adults talking about Krakow-Auschwitz.
This link is very embarrassing
Above the gates to the Workman's Circle Cemetery
Kreis-Kirchhof Des Arbeitersnot
ARBEIT MACHT FRIE

What sort of oceanic feeling would I have if I could pray there, would I fall to my knees, would I finally learn to fear G-d


first draft

[perezoso]

That's called a non sequitur.

Why not address what I wrote instead of posting some spam about the nazis??

Anyways, yr lives are a matter of economics, even if you refuse to acknowledge it.

[stilltrucking]

I done know I hardly remember what I wrote, still got a long way to go with it, probably just prattle after all. But I think we had this discussion, I liked that bit aout John Galt making the the sign of the dollar sign, I liked the chick part about the elegant simple gowns and pearls. anyway I just dealing with these bits from earlier and earlier memories and false memories from far away, the kanizsa-square. Kids are dumb about money, and I am just a kid giving it all away.

I just come back to edit my workman's circle post. punch at you later.
________________________
"Friends come and go, but enemies accumulate. "

[perezoso]

To be honest, StillTonto, we should note the Auschwitz memorial. And the Holocaust is another terrifying example of the absence of any theological or deistic or spiritual entities. What sort of "Gott" would allow such things? (as well as the Armenian genocide, WWI, the congo, Stalin, the bengali genocide, pol pot, and numerous others) Would you want to be in his world or under his power? I think not.

Americans do not realize--or refuse to acknowledge-- how hideously bloodsoaked the last 100 years have been.

[stilltrucking]

*Sometimes a man rises from the supper table*
(Rainer Maria Rilke)

Sometimes a man rises from the supper table
and goes outside. And he keeps on going
because somewhere to the east there's a church.
His children bless his name as if he were dead.

Another man stays home until he dies,
stays with plates and glasses.
So then it is his children who go out
into the world, seeking the church he forgot.

Americans do not realize--or refuse to acknowledge-- how hideously bloodsoaked the last 100 years have been.

I know that. The greatest danger is still self loathing. I think that is Nietzsche, how far back do we go I mean us modern men with our Cro-Magnon skulls, thitty thousand years BCE? It seems to get bloodier every century. Cultural evolution out strips our biology. But everything could change in a moment, overnight, within a generation. I believe that.

sorry I deleted the original message here and moved it visuals

[jimboloco]

i read all the posts but first
before i forget
the movie "pi"

about a math dude who has discovered uncovered
a number series from the kaballa
an he wants to use it to predict the stock market
but these old jewish scholars want him to reveal the secret to them for their own insidious reasons

so he is running from them
an has nervous fits for which
he takes pills a plenty

an is released from the torment
when he realises the intended vision
peaceful in a swing in a playground
urban
carrier
of the
secret
mystic
vision

if it self loathing?
perezozo
how to recompense?
surely no phantom of the opera
what then is the curse
that befalls him?

it was the presidunce who said
"i know how hard it is to put food on your family!"

sounds real constrictive to me
i mean olsd maslow talks about the hierarchy of needs
an good old food an water come foist
but man don survive by bread alone
who said dat?
the sun goddess, that's who
ya anti-pagan
professor
who knows the book definition of metaphor an allegory
but don't see the value of mythos
an psychic deep integral inherant concepts
original mind
more than a bean garden
somebody should bitch slap ya
awake
why they use the stick
kiosaku!
in zen KODAIJI-TEMPLE

http://www.do-not-zzz.com

but stupid bob knows
the how of bow
his signature

humble pie
an the great mother
are not pie-in-the-sky

you know you're here by
synchronicity
skewed logic
cause and event

last night going out for a walk
i spied a column of large ants strewn across the front of our house
under the overhang at the top of the wall

It wouldn't take an enormous amount of intelligence to pay attention to these things fleeing in the silence to higher ground before all hell broke loose,

killed 'em all
they fell onto the porch
then i sprayed 'em agin an
this morning
swept 'em into the dirt

yet i loved the original column of ants
wouldn't a done it but
they been coming into the house
an i told my wife to look an
she told me to kill 'em
so i did

logic and emotions
the line of ants stretched five feet
and at the rear they were gathered up
waiting to follow the advance

it was beautiful
and now i feel sad about it

cecil ya got a regular sunday epistle
the one here was dreamy
i could see ya preaching it
from the pulpit at the unitariaan universalist church

but then those secular humanists at UU
are usually respectful on an open mind.

good ol' don juan
medicine man
hermosillo, sonora
says that
death is always following you
not necessarily stalking
just following.

so is it possible to find a path with heart?
sometimes i forget
heart

[stilltrucking]

[from Ludwig Wittgenstein] "what is the use of studying philosophy if all that it does for you is to enable you to talk with some plausibility about some abstruse questions of logic ... if it does not improve your thinking about the important questions of everyday life?"