Sunday Stream (35) ~ On the Fear of Death

[mtmynd]

Yo, Deb... again you make me smile...

To quibble over definitions that are defined by those ill-equipped to properly define experiences that they themselves have never experienced are what we are up against here... but given the definition as your quoted differs considerably with my own and I am who I am... well, you win in that department.

We have spoken about religion and fear and I must say at this point that I do detect a level of fear in you when religion is introduced in the topic. Do you have a fear of religion? Curious I am and will take you at whatever word(s) you respond with regarding that question.

Myself, I have no fear of religion and see it as a stepping stone to reach the other side. All is not wrong with religion, per se, although the current climate we are living in (evangelically speaking) will certainly curtail any serious research into religions. But whatever the climate, I do not let is sway me in discovering some very good things with religions... afterall religions are but followers of people that have discovered higher truths. Iknow, I know... that is an arguable statement! But the people I am thinking of when I worte that were people like Siddartha, Jesus, Moses, Mohammed... as an incomplete list of course, but you get the idea (I hope).

Not all people that have discovered the higher truths make it a lifes work to spread 'the gospel' about what they have found, but those that have, have had followers, and those followers have taken the words of their 'leaders' and bingo! a new religion was born... altho the experience of higher truths is one, the words differ as much as the physical make up of those that experienced those higher truths. Jesus was a different man from Siddartha who was a different man from Mohammed and on and on... but that inner experience they shared is the same, only the names have been changed to confuse the innocent.

[whimsicaldeb]

… To quibble over definitions…

... but given the definition as your quoted differs considerably with my own and I am who I am... well, you win in that department.

… We have spoken about religion and fear and I must say at this point that I do detect a level of fear in you when religion is introduced in the topic. Do you have a fear of religion?

Cecil,

I’m not “quibbling” over definitions.

Nor am I trying to “win” at anything – or beat you in any way.

And, no – I don’t have a fear of religion.

…

I wasn’t sure what the word religiosity that you were using, meant – so I looked it up; found it had a different meaning than how you were using it, and spoke out about my findings and my thoughts, by posting a reply.

That was (is) me, being me, communicating.

[mtmynd]

I understand, Deb. The full moon is blaring over Phar Lepht.

Peace,

Cecil

[whimsicaldeb]

ahhhhhhhhhh yes, Cecil ... you're just so massive



http://www.comics.com/comics/getfuzzy/
June 22, 2005

[mtmynd]

Hey you! Massive is what massive consumes...

[whimsicaldeb]

well, I'm mad
but then again, that's because... I've been consuming in mass
this ...
http://www.dccomics.com/media/excerpts/4108_x.pdf

[stilltrucking]

About that koan about killing time, I suppose my first thought on reading it was about suicides. Jumping to conclusions, not sure if you are physicaly old enough or sick enough to have one of those long long days that leaves you in the dark with those red demon things from the Tibetan Book of the dead dancing before your eyes, and just go with it, dream of death. Just let all your clinging to life go, just let it go with impatience, as if saying ok if this is it let me get on with it. I got no idea what is after this best of all spatio temporal objective fact worlds about us, I can't see beyond that even horizon. Death seems pretty much it for me. Like it said somewhere "the dead know nothing" kind of fun to pick random words out of that hebrew book like the christianese do. I don't want to die, but that don't mean I fear death, dead is dead but what I got to go through to get there gives me pause for thought. Is that fear? Cigarettes for example, I can't deny that is a death wish, visions of walking on the beach with my lungs full of cancer and my pockets full of rocks.

2) We fear dying because we 'see' nothing beyond our physical existence. When we die, that's it! We turn to dust and become nothing more. It is final, bip! the end. No more. This way of thinking could add to the mayhem of our life. Speaking of mayhem have you heard that weird little snicker in our dear leader's voice when he makes a pronouncement about

of course I make no claim to enlgihtenment, I make no claim to meaning either

"don't mean nothing, drive on" JC

this is all on dream time, cecil,

when you find you been living in your own dreams

Christabel

Medicated unmediated, but edited a few times. A shot on a PBS show about Osaka castle, it is an appearance of beauty as I see it through a mist. I don't see much beauty on this main drag into the Taj Mahal, but once in a while I make a break for New Berlin. That is a comfortable chair, and this is about as close to sitting as I get these days. Just moments I call zenn, a lot of stuff I would like to learn at this late date, Greek, German, Latin, Spanish, been thinking about sinyo, or sanyo, something Jap business men practice, seems like women would be better at it, a week late again with my Wenesday ramble to your Sunday Stream.

I been spending too much time away in real time, sometimes my logic gets pretty Fuzzy. I appologize more for the typo's then I do my ignorance of zennj.

That was nice, the Mad Mag Batman Cover. Have you noticed that freaky sounding snicker in his voice in that sound byte about "I am loyal to my friends.." speaking about the criticism of the AG as a possible Supreme Justice. Oh well probably just me, I been reading too many comic strips. Good old Prince Valiant. I think he is the last comic still running from my jacksterhood.

funny stuff thanks

[mtmynd]

Hey, truck... nice seeing you around once again.

[stilltrucking]

but like anything, too much can bring problems, eh? (another Stream dealt with that - too much thinking, too many why's)
"Speaking of Yanking Chains"




"You are a buddhist freak I know, but I will change your flat Merle"
sung to the tune of
Chorus
Well I'll change your flat tire, Merle
Don't you get your sweet country picking fingers
All covered with oil
'Cause you're a honky I know, but Merle you got soul
And I'll fix your flat tire Merle

Bouncing between two of your streams compadre, fear of death and fear of killing. I said something to a punk the other day, I said violence is not my second nature, I would have better said it as violence is my first nature. Not so much fear of dying with me anymore, it is more the fear of killing. Too much fear is a bad thing, but if you were a woman living in A Muslim Republic you might have a lot of fear, too much, well we are not talking neurotic fear, as in worry, worry about whether Jesus is coming back, and whether he is going to be pissed and I will be number one on his sh*t list.

You got dam right fear exists, and it is a god given thing, a gift from the creator, as in homeboy when he was talking to a white boy and suddenly the hairs on the back of his neck started to stand on end, it gave him a second , a moment of seeing, a chance to protect himself, fear is a sublimanal kind of thing, a warning, just a glimpse of a figure approachinng in the side view mirror of your car, you reach over and push the door lock down before you even know what you are doing, the figure moves on to the next car and yanks the door open
just say HiJack

[mtmynd]

Yes, truck, I have written about fear as of late and I think I have done so because I see so many elements of fear... the news, the current adminstration and its policies, the gangs in America, insecurity of jobs, of health care, of social security... it goes on and on. We are a pill-popping society, drugs for depression which in turn causes erection difficulties, so take another drug... the obesity problem more than likely caused by stress or depression...

Is all of this fear related..? Or is it all stress related..? Somehow I see the two linked... we become fearful which in turn causes our stress levels to rise.

I certainly don't believe that ignoring the state(s) of affairs in the world is an answer, but we do indeed need to take an honest break from all the negativity being tossed around... you know, empty the mind of all the shit... the mind will fill up again, always has - always will, but we need to learn how to drop out of it all on occasion to find the peace within... establish some sense within us and not to rely on so much artificial means - the pills, the booze, the drugs, etc...

[stilltrucking]

I carry about eight gallons of water out to my morning glories every day, sometime twice a day

As close to a practice as I have going. I have to quibble on the word fear, I read something about bird flu spreading to wild fowl and scientists start talking about mortalities like the black plague. I can't say I "fear that" global warming I can't fear that, my neck hairs don't prickle, adrenalin don't pump. I was well into my thirties before I could climb a set of stairs from a basement without the hairs on the back of my neck rising, a sense of something was following me up the stairs, and I would fight the panic feeling for years. Drugs helped me deal with that, that window of perception was acid washed, my mind laid naked to my eyes. Consciousness expansion? I don't know what to call it. Yes the evening news fills our minds with irrational fears. But there is a fear that is real, it is immediate it is rational, it is the scouts in Slaugherhouse Five behind enemy lines, And of course I fear that mighty smighty god of my mothers. I wish I could say it like the Israeli's do. Never Never Again. But I don't know. Working on a one fold path, what ever is harmful for me, I do not want to do to others. Not sure that makes much sense. Typing this in this little text box, I can't see the big picture, just love spontaneous typeing, got you in my mind and my mind in this text box, I don't recommend it for anyone else but Nietzsche, acid and the bible worked for me, got me this far.








Buddhism just another religion to me, just like christianity, Judaism a tough nut for me, the women in my family did a pretty good job of brainwashing me, about the mitochondrial DNA of theirs. They say there were seven sisters in Europe from which all women can trace their XX genes back to. So the jewish mother is just another myth been trying to out grow that. I don't know much about you Cecil, other than you had a very proper raising, and a loving family, you realy are a white boy to me. I had a loving family too, but it was pretty dam dsyfunctional, created a bond between my brothers and sister and me that has served me well as a basis for friendship with my "gentile friends" few people more racist then some jews. Me I know nothing about the religion, I gough a copy of Judaism for Dummies today."that which is hurtful to thee do not to thy neighbor. that is the whole doctrine. the rest is commentary. now go forth and learn." Hillel That is what I am doing- going forth an learning. Sometimes you use so many words that tell me that words don't mean nothing. I been going with this word lately "sinyo or sanyo" not sure what the spelling is, in the west they call it the enteric brain.
just tired of bullsh*t intellectual discussions of religion, for me religion is friendship.

just your old trucking buddy trying to learn from you
peace

not a good read, I do fear. work on it later, my appologies for a rough ride

[mtmynd]

Well, truck... you've said a mouthful, buddy. Other than carrying 8 gallons of water daily to water your morning glories, I had to pause and reflect upon where you were going!

Let's see - the thing about 'fear' is not always a trembling, hairs-rising-on-the-neck, heart palpitating in overdrive... no, fear has many levels - from being a bit startled all the way to terrified and all the degrees in between. Maybe it's the word itself, "fear"... kinda scares people to even hear that word... but so it is.

I don't condemn drugs but have noticed throughout my life that drugs become very easy... just little things that all you gotta do is swallow and bip! people start have changes goin' on in their heads... and anything that changes a worrisome head is pretty pleasant. Of course there are several drugs that do nothing for the head and alot for the body ... cures... strengtheners, etc...

Buddhism is another relilgion.. you're right there. But old Siddartha I figure would've been pretty disappointed at what happened to his name... much like Jesus. Its good to remind ourselves that Buddha was never a Buddhist and Jesus was never a Christian. Who is..? Followers.. bless 'em. But it is a frustrating thing knowing those that follow do not yet fully comprehend that which they are following. Now that alone isn't anything to get riled up about, but when some of them followers become spokes-folks for them that they follow.. that's where religions get into trouble. Someone that claims to know what Buddha or Jesus or Mohammed or Moses or whoever says and insists that all the listeners obey or else... well, there you go! Those folks that do that are instilling the "fear" of god into others.. and that ain't a spiritually correct thing to do! Thems that do are thems that don't.

Now, truck, your comment, "I don't know much about you Cecil, other than you had a very proper raising, and a loving family, you realy are a white boy to me," is not quite correct. I'm sorry if I misled you into believing that but honestly, I don't recall ever saying anything to you that would lead you into that way of thinkin'... My family was as disfunctional as so many that I have known... sure, dysfunctional in different ways but the common word is the same. My mate has helped me a great deal in overcoming some of my 'weaknesses' and confusions, but we all have to do it ourselves the best we can using any means possible to get rid of some of those damned conditionings that so many of us have had and have screwed so many of us up. It is pretty much one of our duties in life, IMHO. If we don't we end up tranfering that shit over into other's lives.. and that ain't right!

The thing you said about Jewish women, "They say there were seven sisters in Europe from which all women can trace their XX genes back to," caused me to pause. A couple of years ago there was a female scientist that too blood samples from people all over the world and traced all of the samples to one woman that lived in Africa. I never followed up on that paper, but it was a topic of conversation when it came out. But anyway, that is in direct conflict with 'seven sisters', isn't it? Seems like it...

And, "for me religion is friendship," is alright with me, as long as one includes friendship with one's Self... I think that is pretty important. I'll bet you've run into a few in your time that actually hated themselves, eh? If people live their lives not being friendly to others or themselves they just ain't too much fun to be with.

Well, that's about it, truck. I may take some time to think about this weeks Stream.. or just may void-out into the tube and watch Nature terrorizing Florida.

[stilltrucking]

no defense of drugs here, just how they worked for me,

Yes nature will take her toll on us, one way or another our problems will be solved. There are events that are possible that would make all our political and religious debates meaningless. This world so permanent and so fleeting. I don't have much to say about Christ anymore, George Bush give me that wake up call. He (Christ) worked for me but the Nietzsche and LSD helped too. I have no idea who that jesus bush speaks about is. They say nothing new under the sun, but this new world order is different, never a world spirit so saturated so truly world wide, so many minds tuned into it. This world culture been building since the new stone age. Progress ain’t what it used to be. I don’t see dooms day because I know my own understanding so limited. Suppose Einstein was wrong about G-d too? And He really does play craps with the universe. I want to see babies born, I want to see us survive, a world of peace and plenty, I believe it is not too late, but It may not be next year in Jeruselem. It might be next year in Mule Shoe Texas

Yes Eve is true about the African Genesis but I am talking about seven of her daughters.
Eve the first female Cro-Magnon and Cro-Magnon males are the best killers the creator ever put on this earth. Too tired to do much with this. Thinking about Hector and Achilles before the gates of Troy for some reason.
this don't make no sense, too tired but I tried. I just don't like dogma, the Religous Society Of Friends say they don't have any but they probably still do. not much but some. Any man who grabs his own dear sweet mother by the throat needs to recognize who he is. The Quackers worked for me, like the jewish lady in israel said, religion is about belonging. I needed to belong, and Fox and Fell worked for me. "There is one who can speak to my condition" Yes there was only one Christian I believe, and only one Buddhist, the rest of us got to be lanmps unto ourselves, with a little help from our friends.

"blow up your tv
move to the country
eat a lot of peaches
try to find jesus on your own"

have you quit smoking yet, (tobacco.) that is the surest sign for me that I do not have an M-T mind. I practice dying sometimes, one thing I miss about trucking is being parked in some truck stop a thousand miles away from every one who knows me and I lay down in the sleeper and die. I lay their and rot until every bit of me is gone but the bones, and I am conscious during the whole process, finally I fade to black. What did you say about death "a blip" yeah a blip if you die in a hospital, not a good death for me, I got a friend in his seventies, a MD, a psychiatrist. He has taken up motorcycle racing in his golden years. There are worse things than death I do believe.

I think your parents are reflected in your values, somewhere something I read about your childhood, just pretty normal sounding to me. I mean the houses you lived in. The Neighborhoods. For example did you have rail road box cars parked in front of your house, did you live three blocks from the harbor of a large eastern city, did you have dead wharf rats with maggots in the alley behind your house, did you live next door to a scrap yard where men would come in horse and wagons to unload their haul? just stuff like that
edited once but still not too good.

I once tried to list all the jobs and homes I have had in the last forty years, hundreds and hundreds, I been here about fifteen months, which is pretty stable for me. My longest lasting home was the road. ten years at one stretch,about three tousand days of it on the road. Just not normal. just a rolling stone. And I had serenity in my anonymity. Where nobody knows your name.

edited again.

[mousey1]

Fear scares me

Death doesn't

It's a pathway

A pathway to Heaven or Hell

Hell scares me

Scares me to death



Luckily I'm immortal!!!!!

Mighty Mouse

[mtmynd]

Hi, mousey! I've learned (accepted) that hell isn't a geographical location but a state of mind and getting into that state of mind can sure scare the pants off us, eh?