Hello, N(ew)S(aturday)... I trust you're enjoying your day as I presume you do every day. This evening I am replying using a laptop computer, an instrument that I am quite unfamiliar with as I still have not weaned myself from a large and (I have been informed) antiquated beast which has stubbornly refused to access the net or even let my into my emails. The story of this laptop I shall not go into because the story is not interesting other than my cheap complaint, (which hardly deserves the adverb, 'interesting'.)
NS: "What use are “profits” to a fellow with sieve-like fingers? Best you let my more sponge-like paws handle the tedious financial flow.'
What use, you ask? Merci, mon ami, these sieve-like fingers have needs, too... the cooling currency tends to bring a sense of well-being to the fortunate to experience such a luxury.n
NS: "How about yourself: always been a phar lepht Texan, any communes in your past?"
I spent some time communing with like-minded others in San Francisco, circa early 70's, for many months until I fell to some misfortune. An unexpected collision of a panel truck with my backside left me with a lengthy recuperation period which brought me back to Phar Lepht. It was here SooZen and me became inseparable, even with the exchange of marital vows, something a wee bit different in our lives to do, one memorable Friday morning.
N(aval)S(ecurity): "The last time my vocabulary earned me anything, I had just been led in chains to my new residency at Portsmouth Naval Prison."
Being one who readily admits to a math deficiency, I'm suddenly concerned about your ability to take care of my book profits. This deficit of yours would surely prove to be a deficit to moi, would it not? "In the beginning was the word" as it has be biblically decreed, says nothing about the ending which may be concluded with "the money", of which I would like to have a few extra shillings to have a cold ale on my death bed.
[btw: your choice of the word, misomathic, will not enhance your growing personal word-treasury by yours truly!]
NS: 'That’s the stuff! I bet you’ll agree that half the fun is the process of growing it? Eating fresh picked ‘free’ food, of course, consumes the remaining half."
Indeed! We (SooZen and I) are both adherents to the Rodale methodology for growing our vegetables. This allows an immediate rush from picking followed by quickly biting into a ripe and ready delight. I'm sure you'll agree...
NS: "Doesn’t J.C. concern ‘conscience,’ rather than ‘happiness and sorrow‘?"
Why, yes, it does. But wouldn't you agree that one's conscience is happier rather than sorrowful when it is listened to..?
NS: "But, are we correct to assume from that, that Spirit IS that compiled ‘thing,’ or any ‘thing’ whatever?"
Personally, N(eo)-S(piritu), I do not feel Spirit is thing if we agree the word defines a matter-based object that has dimensionality, i.e. length, width, breadth... these 'things' have limitations of being were as Spirit, by its very nature, transcends any thing.
When I said: "It is this connection of the 'dots' of various subjects that draw us further into the One," my intent was to relay to you that the more dots that becomes connected, the clearer the Spirit which dwells with each dot become apparent to the seeker as being the One Spirit to which all dots are connected.
NS: "For each, this, their present incarnation, IS their proper path."
This is true, my friend, but despite all of being on our proper path, many times this path we are on runs out. This may, indeed, be what you call 'proper', but when one has run into the proverbial wall, where there seemingly seems to be no where to go, what is 'proper' may be an ill-used word for that individual. Now that does not say this individual, upon finding a new path won't wake up one day and upon reflection, exclaim: "If it weren't for that one path I was on that led me to nowhere, I mightn't never have gotten to where I am now!" We may see this as all one path, but to the individual this may not be 'true.'
Well, as I once heard when I was but a lad and have never forgotten, I must leave you with: "the clock on the wall says that's all. it's been great fun, but I must run..."
Tomorrow is our last show of the year and I must get some rest for what will end as a rather long day and one that does not include a nice afternoon nap.
Until later turns into Now...
Sunday Stream (223) ~ Task Master
Moderator: mtmynd
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Non Sum
Hello M(erry) T(rouper),
Hope your season’s final show went well, with plenty to sell, and ladies to ogle. I trust your computer conundrums have concluded?
MT: An unexpected collision of a panel truck with my backside left me with a lengthy recuperation period which brought me back to Phar Lepht. It was here SooZen and me became inseparable, even with the exchange of marital vows,
NS: Isn’t it odd how tragedies can also become serendipitous.
MT: I would like to have a few extra shillings to have a cold ale on my death bed.
NS: Just send word of your imminent demise (certified by an attending physician, of course), and a keg of cool ale will magically arrive at your bedside.
MT: [btw: your choice of the word, misomathic, will not enhance your growing personal word-treasury by yours truly!]
NS: Why, was ‘misomath’ miserably misapplied by mistake or mishap? Alliteratively addressed, yet not abjured, I’ll admit the suffix ‘ic’ was appended as an assumed appropriate adjectival adjunct.
MT: Rodale Method
NS: Ah, is this the method that says, “when picking corn, ‘run,’ don’t walk to the cooking pot”? I’m not sure just how true this is, in regards to taste. Though, nutritionally speaking, it’s probably right on target. We freeze most of our corn, and find that it retains nearly all of its taste for a year. We also grow the usual variety of veggies, with an emphasis on tomatoes—most of which are juiced and canned. I also have a small, no longer ‘very’ productive (since I cease spraying) orchard. And, several varieties of berries; again, most of which are frozen. Yesterday, we took out some wild blackberries, and strawberries, and made some jam out of them.
MT: Why, yes, it [J.C. concerns ‘conscience’] does. But wouldn't you agree that one's conscience is happier rather than sorrowful when it is listened to..?
NS: Perhaps ‘it’ is happier, but my mind feels otherwise, and wishes it would stifle its critical jabs. ‘Kill a cricket,’ is my motto.
MT: Personally, N(eo)-S(piritu), I do not feel Spirit is thing if we agree the word defines a matter-based object that has dimensionality, i.e. length, width, breadth... these 'things' have limitations of being were as Spirit, by its very nature, transcends any thing.
NS: A ‘thing’ (i.e. phenomena) may be materially concrete, or mentally conceptual; i.e. extend in space, or extend only in thought. A pantheist, for instance, may trustingly believe that spirit resides within all phenomena; but that, however accurate it may be, is still conceptual rather than a direct ‘spiritual’ observation. And, as such lacks the certitude that only immediate spiritual contact can give.
” Only he knows God who recognizes that all creatures are nothingness.
If I am to know real existence, I must know it as it is in itself, not as it is parceled out in creatures.” (Meister Eckhart)
MT: When I said: "It is this connection of the 'dots' of various subjects that draw us further into the One," my intent was to relay to you that the more dots that becomes connected, the clearer the Spirit which dwells with each dot become apparent to the seeker as being the One Spirit to which all dots are connected.
NS: I can agree that such insight can point the way to spirit, but in order to BE spirit one has recourse to only one source, i.e. one’s own Spiritual Self (Atman). Once fully identified with one’s Atman, exclusive of all other biographical concepts, one sees the identification of Atman with Brahman (The one Self of all).
” Since the manifold objects of sense are merely emanations of Brahman, to know them in themselves is not enough. Since all the actions of men are but phases of the universal process of creation, action alone is not enough. The sage must distinguish between knowledge and wisdom. Knowledge is of things, acts, and relations. But wisdom is of Brahman alone; and, beyond all things, acts, and relations, He abides forever. To become one with Him is the only wisdom.” (MUNDAKA Upanishad)
MT: We may see this as all one path, but to the individual this may not be 'true.'
NS: Yes, but the one who chose the early path, is the same (albeit developing) individual that now chooses another path. He should recognize that all this selecting and rejecting of evolving paths IS his personal life’s path. I doubt that any life-path runs straight without its several twists and bends. These bends are not ‘new paths,’ but just the one, seemingly crooked, path.
MT: Tomorrow is our last show of the year and I must get some rest for what will end as a rather long day and one that does not include a nice afternoon nap.
NS: Good luck, and I’ll dedicate my Sunday nap to you in your lieu, but I refuse to nap in your loo.
Remember to, ‘stomp out all crickets,’ NS (Nasty Shoes)
Hope your season’s final show went well, with plenty to sell, and ladies to ogle. I trust your computer conundrums have concluded?
MT: An unexpected collision of a panel truck with my backside left me with a lengthy recuperation period which brought me back to Phar Lepht. It was here SooZen and me became inseparable, even with the exchange of marital vows,
NS: Isn’t it odd how tragedies can also become serendipitous.
MT: I would like to have a few extra shillings to have a cold ale on my death bed.
NS: Just send word of your imminent demise (certified by an attending physician, of course), and a keg of cool ale will magically arrive at your bedside.
MT: [btw: your choice of the word, misomathic, will not enhance your growing personal word-treasury by yours truly!]
NS: Why, was ‘misomath’ miserably misapplied by mistake or mishap? Alliteratively addressed, yet not abjured, I’ll admit the suffix ‘ic’ was appended as an assumed appropriate adjectival adjunct.
MT: Rodale Method
NS: Ah, is this the method that says, “when picking corn, ‘run,’ don’t walk to the cooking pot”? I’m not sure just how true this is, in regards to taste. Though, nutritionally speaking, it’s probably right on target. We freeze most of our corn, and find that it retains nearly all of its taste for a year. We also grow the usual variety of veggies, with an emphasis on tomatoes—most of which are juiced and canned. I also have a small, no longer ‘very’ productive (since I cease spraying) orchard. And, several varieties of berries; again, most of which are frozen. Yesterday, we took out some wild blackberries, and strawberries, and made some jam out of them.
MT: Why, yes, it [J.C. concerns ‘conscience’] does. But wouldn't you agree that one's conscience is happier rather than sorrowful when it is listened to..?
NS: Perhaps ‘it’ is happier, but my mind feels otherwise, and wishes it would stifle its critical jabs. ‘Kill a cricket,’ is my motto.
MT: Personally, N(eo)-S(piritu), I do not feel Spirit is thing if we agree the word defines a matter-based object that has dimensionality, i.e. length, width, breadth... these 'things' have limitations of being were as Spirit, by its very nature, transcends any thing.
NS: A ‘thing’ (i.e. phenomena) may be materially concrete, or mentally conceptual; i.e. extend in space, or extend only in thought. A pantheist, for instance, may trustingly believe that spirit resides within all phenomena; but that, however accurate it may be, is still conceptual rather than a direct ‘spiritual’ observation. And, as such lacks the certitude that only immediate spiritual contact can give.
” Only he knows God who recognizes that all creatures are nothingness.
If I am to know real existence, I must know it as it is in itself, not as it is parceled out in creatures.” (Meister Eckhart)
MT: When I said: "It is this connection of the 'dots' of various subjects that draw us further into the One," my intent was to relay to you that the more dots that becomes connected, the clearer the Spirit which dwells with each dot become apparent to the seeker as being the One Spirit to which all dots are connected.
NS: I can agree that such insight can point the way to spirit, but in order to BE spirit one has recourse to only one source, i.e. one’s own Spiritual Self (Atman). Once fully identified with one’s Atman, exclusive of all other biographical concepts, one sees the identification of Atman with Brahman (The one Self of all).
” Since the manifold objects of sense are merely emanations of Brahman, to know them in themselves is not enough. Since all the actions of men are but phases of the universal process of creation, action alone is not enough. The sage must distinguish between knowledge and wisdom. Knowledge is of things, acts, and relations. But wisdom is of Brahman alone; and, beyond all things, acts, and relations, He abides forever. To become one with Him is the only wisdom.” (MUNDAKA Upanishad)
MT: We may see this as all one path, but to the individual this may not be 'true.'
NS: Yes, but the one who chose the early path, is the same (albeit developing) individual that now chooses another path. He should recognize that all this selecting and rejecting of evolving paths IS his personal life’s path. I doubt that any life-path runs straight without its several twists and bends. These bends are not ‘new paths,’ but just the one, seemingly crooked, path.
MT: Tomorrow is our last show of the year and I must get some rest for what will end as a rather long day and one that does not include a nice afternoon nap.
NS: Good luck, and I’ll dedicate my Sunday nap to you in your lieu, but I refuse to nap in your loo.
Remember to, ‘stomp out all crickets,’ NS (Nasty Shoes)
((pssst! hey! non sum.. awaken! no time for napping... time to listen to the cricket...))
Today's Stream took more time than I am accustomed to using this unfamiliar laptop along with the internet service taking its own nap today leaving me with crossed fingers (except for one center finger of my right hand poised in aggravation). some two hours went by before I found the problem to be with by own router and modem... both having had to be unplugged from the electrical currency, which cost me time which on Sunday, (with no shows to do), has a pleasantness about it which finds disruption disagreeable. But I must remind my Self perfection is not but a fleeting moment not unlike Haley's comet on it's assured return when the moment is due.
The show was rather sluggish yesterday but not so bad that it was a loss but rather a disappointment... for not only SooZen and myself, but for several other vendors, too. But we are used to such things, especially this Fall where slow times and tight money seem to go hand in hand.
NS: Just send word of your imminent demise (certified by an attending physician, of course), and a keg of cool ale will magically arrive at your bedside.
I have always appreciated a good magic act and having a keg o' ale, properly cooled (but never chilled) magically appear before my ale starved eyes, makes my eventual demise from this earthly paradise even more appreciative of that eight-letter word which begins with 'p' and ends with 'ise.'
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." - Ben Franklin
NS: Why, was ‘misomath’ miserably misapplied by mistake or mishap?
Mostly a mammoth mishandling of what should've been a minor mistake regarding mathematics reduced to a sizzling bowl of miso, my 'migo. (A! Excuse me but I'll pass on that one, A1!)
NS: Ah, is this the method that says, “when picking corn, ‘run,’ don’t walk to the cooking pot”? I’m not sure just how true this is, in regards to taste.
Whoa there N(on)S(top)! Walk to the nearest pot when holding an arm full of freshly picked of your own. The "Rodale Method" is based upon who may be considered the Guru of Organic Gardening, J.I. Rodale, who pioneered the organic method of successfully raising produce of all types using the organic method long, long before it was as favorable as it is today. His methods grew as well as the produce with farming methods which are now employed in several countries throughout the world. (TMI?)
I am envious (at least my thumb is relatively green...), of your garden and the amount of return you're receiving from your efforts. We have not had enough to do any canning so far due to the limitations of our garden. Berries are very difficult to raise in our drought prone climate, even with hose water being generously applied 2-3 times weekly. We do have great success with pomegranates... from our mother tree has sprung forth from the soil, 3 trees in varying sizes, one of which is producing. The excess fruits are split between the Farmer's Market we attend during the season along with our feathered friends from afar and damn close.
"Kill a cricket" may be your motto, but I would consider that motto to be incomplete with adding "... and lose a song!" What would our bird friends do without a few crickets in their diet..? However, N(on)-S(tomping), if your were specifically referring to Jiminy, I would wonder as to how one would kill conscience without bruising ego? Gracious, good man, I can visualize you in your garden stomping up and down the rows of green plants, with your overalls loosely fitting bouncing up and down your slim figure with those size 10 lace up boots thumping the ground and sending dust up along with your anger at the cacophony of cricket cricketing, by crackey...
NS: "... however accurate it may be, is still conceptual rather than a direct ‘'spiritual’ observation."
Direct observation not only eliminates all doubt but enhances one's ability to sense the spiritual within all of existence, phenomenon - beyond and before. Existence, including our perception of Spirit, God and whatever mystical essence we are aware of (or think we are aware of) is born of the Void wherein all things shall also return. It is within this Holy (wholly) Silence, the womb of all existence gives birth to all, including the Absolute. Mind shall never cease in asking "Why?" when it comes to phenomena and and it's reason only because mind can only use mind to know, when knowledge itself transcends this mind's constant chattering and desire to know that which it can never fully understand do to its hu'man limitations.
"To know the unknowable enter silently into the unknowing without knowledge."- the astral hobo
Today's Stream took more time than I am accustomed to using this unfamiliar laptop along with the internet service taking its own nap today leaving me with crossed fingers (except for one center finger of my right hand poised in aggravation). some two hours went by before I found the problem to be with by own router and modem... both having had to be unplugged from the electrical currency, which cost me time which on Sunday, (with no shows to do), has a pleasantness about it which finds disruption disagreeable. But I must remind my Self perfection is not but a fleeting moment not unlike Haley's comet on it's assured return when the moment is due.
The show was rather sluggish yesterday but not so bad that it was a loss but rather a disappointment... for not only SooZen and myself, but for several other vendors, too. But we are used to such things, especially this Fall where slow times and tight money seem to go hand in hand.
NS: Just send word of your imminent demise (certified by an attending physician, of course), and a keg of cool ale will magically arrive at your bedside.
I have always appreciated a good magic act and having a keg o' ale, properly cooled (but never chilled) magically appear before my ale starved eyes, makes my eventual demise from this earthly paradise even more appreciative of that eight-letter word which begins with 'p' and ends with 'ise.'
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." - Ben Franklin
NS: Why, was ‘misomath’ miserably misapplied by mistake or mishap?
Mostly a mammoth mishandling of what should've been a minor mistake regarding mathematics reduced to a sizzling bowl of miso, my 'migo. (A! Excuse me but I'll pass on that one, A1!)
NS: Ah, is this the method that says, “when picking corn, ‘run,’ don’t walk to the cooking pot”? I’m not sure just how true this is, in regards to taste.
Whoa there N(on)S(top)! Walk to the nearest pot when holding an arm full of freshly picked of your own. The "Rodale Method" is based upon who may be considered the Guru of Organic Gardening, J.I. Rodale, who pioneered the organic method of successfully raising produce of all types using the organic method long, long before it was as favorable as it is today. His methods grew as well as the produce with farming methods which are now employed in several countries throughout the world. (TMI?)
I am envious (at least my thumb is relatively green...), of your garden and the amount of return you're receiving from your efforts. We have not had enough to do any canning so far due to the limitations of our garden. Berries are very difficult to raise in our drought prone climate, even with hose water being generously applied 2-3 times weekly. We do have great success with pomegranates... from our mother tree has sprung forth from the soil, 3 trees in varying sizes, one of which is producing. The excess fruits are split between the Farmer's Market we attend during the season along with our feathered friends from afar and damn close.
"Kill a cricket" may be your motto, but I would consider that motto to be incomplete with adding "... and lose a song!" What would our bird friends do without a few crickets in their diet..? However, N(on)-S(tomping), if your were specifically referring to Jiminy, I would wonder as to how one would kill conscience without bruising ego? Gracious, good man, I can visualize you in your garden stomping up and down the rows of green plants, with your overalls loosely fitting bouncing up and down your slim figure with those size 10 lace up boots thumping the ground and sending dust up along with your anger at the cacophony of cricket cricketing, by crackey...
NS: "... however accurate it may be, is still conceptual rather than a direct ‘'spiritual’ observation."
Direct observation not only eliminates all doubt but enhances one's ability to sense the spiritual within all of existence, phenomenon - beyond and before. Existence, including our perception of Spirit, God and whatever mystical essence we are aware of (or think we are aware of) is born of the Void wherein all things shall also return. It is within this Holy (wholly) Silence, the womb of all existence gives birth to all, including the Absolute. Mind shall never cease in asking "Why?" when it comes to phenomena and and it's reason only because mind can only use mind to know, when knowledge itself transcends this mind's constant chattering and desire to know that which it can never fully understand do to its hu'man limitations.
"To know the unknowable enter silently into the unknowing without knowledge."- the astral hobo
_________________________________
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Allow not destiny to intrude upon Now
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Allow not destiny to intrude upon Now
-
Non Sum
Hey Cecil, now on creative vacation,
What are you making now?
MT: Today's Stream took more time than I am accustomed to using this unfamiliar laptop along with the internet service taking its own nap today leaving me with crossed fingers (except for one center finger of my right hand poised in aggravation).
NS: With a handful of crossed and erect fingers, it is no wonder your typing is not going so well for you.
MT: But I must remind my Self perfection is not but a fleeting moment not unlike Haley's comet on its assured return when the moment is due.
NS: That’s what, about 75 years until your perfect moment strikes again? You may as well get used to ‘less than perfect’ for awhile. Or, you could do as I have done, and perfect ‘imperfection.’
MT: The show was rather sluggish yesterday but not so bad that it was a loss but rather a disappointment... for not only SooZen and myself, but for several other vendors, too. But we are used to such things, especially this Fall where slow times and tight money seem to go hand in hand.
NS: Is there much flexibility in your pricing?
MT: makes my eventual demise from this earthly paradise even more appreciative of that eight-letter word which begins with 'p' and ends with 'ise.'
NS: ‘Porpoise’? I’ll admit, they are a very nice sea mammal, and all that, but aren’t you being a bit excessive? Perhaps, it’s all that ale.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." - Ben Franklin
NS: Very wise saying indeed! No wonder they put him on the hundred.
MT: J.I. Rodale, who pioneered the organic method of successfully raising produce of all types using the organic method long, long before it was as favorable as it is today.
NS: Oh yeah. I even have a book or two somewhere on the ‘how to do’s’ of the method. Sorry for the lapse. I guess it shows how carelessly un-organic my methods are. I recycle our organic matter into compost piles for a lot of the fertilizing, plus grow ‘green manure’ regularly, but I also augment it all with small amounts of 10-10-10, and commercially composted manure. I’m about 80% organic these days. Doubtless, Mr. Rodale would organically spit on me.
MT: We have not had enough to do any canning so far due to the limitations of our garden. Berries are very difficult to raise in our drought prone climate, even with hose water being generously applied 2-3 times weekly. We do have great success with pomegranates..
NS: Though nothing as dry as your area, we have had plenty of droughts these past few years (until ‘09). I often have to water each evening for months. We have our own deep-water well, but there is no way to know if it is low or high at 425 feet. So, I put in 7 55gal rainwater collection barrels, and more recently a lined collection pool that doubles the barrel’s capacity. I just put in a gray-water diversion (from the septic system) pipe, which should both relieve the load on the system, and add to my hydration potential (along with Rodale’s spit).
I’ve read of special varieties of tomato plants that grow well in desert conditions. Also, you may want to use shade cloths for other crops.
Do you juice the pomegranates? Can you grow citrus in your climate?
MT: "Kill a cricket" may be your motto, but I would consider that motto to be incomplete with adding "... and lose a song!" What would our bird friends do without a few crickets in their diet..?
NS: I was only referring to ‘conscience crickets.’ Real crickets are good luck, I try to keep them all on my side. My bird friends are too fat to chase crickets, as my wife keeps them beak deep in black oil sunflower seeds. They run me about $25 per month this time of year.
MT: However, N(on)-S(tomping), if your were specifically referring to Jiminy, I would wonder as to how one would kill conscience without bruising ego?
NS: If I’ve fed NS’s (Negligent Scum’s) ego on his good behavior, it goes a long way in explaining why his cricket has croaked.
MT: Gracious, good man, I can visualize you in your garden stomping up and down the rows of green plants, with your overalls loosely fitting bouncing up and down your slim figure with those size 10 lace up boots thumping the ground and sending dust up along with your anger at the cacophony of cricket cricketing, by crackey...
NS: Good grief, you even got the boot size right! I’m getting major paranoid chills here, “by crackey” (favored expression).
MT: Direct observation not only eliminates all doubt but enhances one's ability to sense the spiritual within all of existence, phenomenon –
NS: True enough.
MT: God and whatever mystical essence we are aware of (or think we are aware of) is born of the Void wherein all things shall also return. It is within this Holy (wholly) Silence, the womb of all existence gives birth to all, including the Absolute.
NS: If it is “Absolute” it certainly is not born, nor contained. What you call the “Void” sounds more like any Absolute that meets the definition, or experience. Again, if it is Absolute then how can anything go away from it? To where? Nor, would there be any need to “return” to what is not possible to ever leave. As Eckhart explains this Absolute Void, ”What is in God is God and all being is in God.” Or, the Upanishads, ”God alone is, nothing else is.”
MT: Mind shall never cease in asking "Why?" when it comes to phenomena and it's reason only because mind can only use mind to know, when knowledge itself transcends this mind's constant chattering and desire to know that which it can never fully understand due to its hu'man limitations.
NS: Yes, the mind is fixated on its phenomena, and, as you say, limited to it. The lungs are the same way with air, the digestive system to food and drink, etc. It would be foolish to ask any bodily system to concern itself with what is not within its proper sphere of activity; most especially when the issue concerns the transcendent (of thought and matter) Spirit. It is said that, “only God (i.e. Spirit) can know God.”
But, it is also said that “God is a jealous god.” What this means is that if we mistake our Spirit for the mind’s objects (e.g. NS or MT) then we are placing our heart and soul’s belief into a false god. Eckhart says, ”If the soul turns outward to other objects, it will die.”
Now, this isn’t about some vengeful theistic deity who feels slighted, but rather concerns the how-to of one’s discovery of their void-like Spirit.
"To know the unknowable enter silently into the unknowing without knowledge."- the astral hobo
NS: Exactly so. We have to leave the mind/”knowledge” behind, which includes ‘its’ illusory worlds. Because objects are a distraction from Reality, which is ‘pure’ Spirit. There is no major religious tradition’s mysticism that does not advise us to turn away from (or, ‘die to’) the world, and person, in our inner search for the Grail.
Chuang-tse said, ”While keeping my physical frame I lost sight of my real Self. Gazing at muddy water, I lost sight of the clear abyss. Consequently, I no longer go out into the world.”
NS (Necrotic Soiree)
What are you making now?
MT: Today's Stream took more time than I am accustomed to using this unfamiliar laptop along with the internet service taking its own nap today leaving me with crossed fingers (except for one center finger of my right hand poised in aggravation).
NS: With a handful of crossed and erect fingers, it is no wonder your typing is not going so well for you.
MT: But I must remind my Self perfection is not but a fleeting moment not unlike Haley's comet on its assured return when the moment is due.
NS: That’s what, about 75 years until your perfect moment strikes again? You may as well get used to ‘less than perfect’ for awhile. Or, you could do as I have done, and perfect ‘imperfection.’
MT: The show was rather sluggish yesterday but not so bad that it was a loss but rather a disappointment... for not only SooZen and myself, but for several other vendors, too. But we are used to such things, especially this Fall where slow times and tight money seem to go hand in hand.
NS: Is there much flexibility in your pricing?
MT: makes my eventual demise from this earthly paradise even more appreciative of that eight-letter word which begins with 'p' and ends with 'ise.'
NS: ‘Porpoise’? I’ll admit, they are a very nice sea mammal, and all that, but aren’t you being a bit excessive? Perhaps, it’s all that ale.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." - Ben Franklin
NS: Very wise saying indeed! No wonder they put him on the hundred.
MT: J.I. Rodale, who pioneered the organic method of successfully raising produce of all types using the organic method long, long before it was as favorable as it is today.
NS: Oh yeah. I even have a book or two somewhere on the ‘how to do’s’ of the method. Sorry for the lapse. I guess it shows how carelessly un-organic my methods are. I recycle our organic matter into compost piles for a lot of the fertilizing, plus grow ‘green manure’ regularly, but I also augment it all with small amounts of 10-10-10, and commercially composted manure. I’m about 80% organic these days. Doubtless, Mr. Rodale would organically spit on me.
MT: We have not had enough to do any canning so far due to the limitations of our garden. Berries are very difficult to raise in our drought prone climate, even with hose water being generously applied 2-3 times weekly. We do have great success with pomegranates..
NS: Though nothing as dry as your area, we have had plenty of droughts these past few years (until ‘09). I often have to water each evening for months. We have our own deep-water well, but there is no way to know if it is low or high at 425 feet. So, I put in 7 55gal rainwater collection barrels, and more recently a lined collection pool that doubles the barrel’s capacity. I just put in a gray-water diversion (from the septic system) pipe, which should both relieve the load on the system, and add to my hydration potential (along with Rodale’s spit).
I’ve read of special varieties of tomato plants that grow well in desert conditions. Also, you may want to use shade cloths for other crops.
Do you juice the pomegranates? Can you grow citrus in your climate?
MT: "Kill a cricket" may be your motto, but I would consider that motto to be incomplete with adding "... and lose a song!" What would our bird friends do without a few crickets in their diet..?
NS: I was only referring to ‘conscience crickets.’ Real crickets are good luck, I try to keep them all on my side. My bird friends are too fat to chase crickets, as my wife keeps them beak deep in black oil sunflower seeds. They run me about $25 per month this time of year.
MT: However, N(on)-S(tomping), if your were specifically referring to Jiminy, I would wonder as to how one would kill conscience without bruising ego?
NS: If I’ve fed NS’s (Negligent Scum’s) ego on his good behavior, it goes a long way in explaining why his cricket has croaked.
MT: Gracious, good man, I can visualize you in your garden stomping up and down the rows of green plants, with your overalls loosely fitting bouncing up and down your slim figure with those size 10 lace up boots thumping the ground and sending dust up along with your anger at the cacophony of cricket cricketing, by crackey...
NS: Good grief, you even got the boot size right! I’m getting major paranoid chills here, “by crackey” (favored expression).
MT: Direct observation not only eliminates all doubt but enhances one's ability to sense the spiritual within all of existence, phenomenon –
NS: True enough.
MT: God and whatever mystical essence we are aware of (or think we are aware of) is born of the Void wherein all things shall also return. It is within this Holy (wholly) Silence, the womb of all existence gives birth to all, including the Absolute.
NS: If it is “Absolute” it certainly is not born, nor contained. What you call the “Void” sounds more like any Absolute that meets the definition, or experience. Again, if it is Absolute then how can anything go away from it? To where? Nor, would there be any need to “return” to what is not possible to ever leave. As Eckhart explains this Absolute Void, ”What is in God is God and all being is in God.” Or, the Upanishads, ”God alone is, nothing else is.”
MT: Mind shall never cease in asking "Why?" when it comes to phenomena and it's reason only because mind can only use mind to know, when knowledge itself transcends this mind's constant chattering and desire to know that which it can never fully understand due to its hu'man limitations.
NS: Yes, the mind is fixated on its phenomena, and, as you say, limited to it. The lungs are the same way with air, the digestive system to food and drink, etc. It would be foolish to ask any bodily system to concern itself with what is not within its proper sphere of activity; most especially when the issue concerns the transcendent (of thought and matter) Spirit. It is said that, “only God (i.e. Spirit) can know God.”
But, it is also said that “God is a jealous god.” What this means is that if we mistake our Spirit for the mind’s objects (e.g. NS or MT) then we are placing our heart and soul’s belief into a false god. Eckhart says, ”If the soul turns outward to other objects, it will die.”
Now, this isn’t about some vengeful theistic deity who feels slighted, but rather concerns the how-to of one’s discovery of their void-like Spirit.
"To know the unknowable enter silently into the unknowing without knowledge."- the astral hobo
NS: Exactly so. We have to leave the mind/”knowledge” behind, which includes ‘its’ illusory worlds. Because objects are a distraction from Reality, which is ‘pure’ Spirit. There is no major religious tradition’s mysticism that does not advise us to turn away from (or, ‘die to’) the world, and person, in our inner search for the Grail.
Chuang-tse said, ”While keeping my physical frame I lost sight of my real Self. Gazing at muddy water, I lost sight of the clear abyss. Consequently, I no longer go out into the world.”
NS (Necrotic Soiree)
G'day, NS
NS: Hey Cecil, now on creative vacation,
What are you making now?
This morning after I did my walk, I made breakfast for both Soo and myself. The M-Th menu being oatmeal kicked up with wheat germ and flax seed. That along with a piece of toast (or two) and my 2nd cuppa joe usually will pull me thru the morn.
As far as anything creative... nothing planned as of yet.
How about you? Got anything in the creative seas washing up on the shores of completion?
NS: With a handful of crossed and erect fingers, it is no wonder your typing is not going so well for you.
You should see those days when I'm all thumbs...
NS: That’s what, about 75 years until your perfect moment strikes again? You may as well get used to ‘less than perfect’ for awhile. Or, you could do as I have done, and perfect ‘imperfection.’
To Haley, 75 years is but a moment in time, while I, my friend, will consider myself quite fortunate to make it to that ripe age. Altho, I may give some serious thought (well Not Serious enough to become baggage) to perfecting my own imperfection... it should be quite a sight!
NS: Is there much flexibility in your pricing?
Make me an offer...
NS: ‘Porpoise’? I’ll admit, they are a very nice sea mammal, and all that, but aren’t you being a bit excessive? Perhaps, it’s all that ale.
Very good, N(o)S(hite)! But I've already been a porpoise... a porpoise without purpose. But that was far longer back in my several incarnations I've milked from life... This present incarnation has been, so far, a nice yin/yang duality that has been rather paradisaical with a nice mix of chaos and creative confusion to leave me gasping for more.
N(ever)S(pit): Doubtless, Mr. Rodale would organically spit on me.
Should ol' J.I. still be organically preaching the garden gospels, I trust he would shake your semi-organically gardening hand and give you a green thumbs up for effort. Indeed, I think he would be pleasantly surprised to see how many adherents his methods have drawn in since his passing on the Dick Cavett show some 38 years ago.
NS: I’ve read of special varieties of tomato plants that grow well in desert conditions. Also, you may want to use shade cloths for other crops.
We've had good success with the Celebrity tomato for the past few years, but this years attempt fell fall short with tomatoes that resembled deep red golf balls with little flavor. A few areas of our limited space had gotten the dreaded root nematode. Any successful cure for that?
NS: Do you juice the pomegranates? Can you grow citrus in your climate?
We haven't done any juicing in several years when SooZen did in order to make an extremely delicious pomegranate jelly. But we sell our excess fruits at the Farmer's Market and keep a relatively small supply in reserve... SooZen makes a delicious salsa... a mix of 'pico de gallo' and an even amount of pomegranates - so fine for dipping organic corn chips washed down with a cool ale.
NS: My bird friends are too fat to chase crickets, as my wife keeps them beak deep in black oil sunflower seeds.
Good for your wife... keeping you away from those black oil sunflower seeds must be a difficult job, is it not? We feed our birds daily using a local commercial mix that has no waste of seeds as all of them are desired by the birds in our area. Have you grown any sunflowers that have these seeds?
NS: If it is “Absolute” it certainly is not born, nor contained. What you call the “Void” sounds more like any Absolute that meets the definition, or experience.
Poetic license, amigo... however, ,'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God,' strongly suggests that there was , indeed, a beginning. If we are to accept this, then what began originated from, not necessarily a 'place' but what I call the Void.. where all came from and all shall return, an endless and infinite journey of existence within which all answers shall be answered so a return to the Wholly Silence will be fully understood.
NS: But, it is also said that “God is a jealous god.” What this means is that if we mistake our Spirit for the mind’s objects (e.g. NS or MT) then we are placing our heart and soul’s belief into a false god. Eckhart says, ”If the soul turns outward to other objects, it will die.”
Now, this isn’t about some vengeful theistic deity who feels slighted, but rather concerns the how-to of one’s discovery of their void-like Spirit.
Eckhart sounds so vengeful himself in this quote. It's an admonition to keep attuned to one's inner being, the Soul, or lose the way. This differs from my trust that all will find their true Self when that moment is the moment to know. Until that time, those that are still in slumber, share in the ability to enjoy this material world and all that it provides us in order for all to continue surfing towards the inner soul, knowingly or not. There have been untold numbers of people for millennia who have attempted to become one with God, Self Realized, enter into Nirvana, sit at the Right Hand of God... or whatever word(s) one believes to be the goal of religion, to confirm there is a deity which is the Absolute. But until one is ready, finished with this material world and ready, truly ready and more than willing, to become a true pilgrim, a sannayasin, whose only focus is their burning desire to come face-to-face with their inner being... if these are not paramount in their heart of hearts, they will once again return to the Wheel of Life... Life as we know it and live it. We all are in good company...
______
I Am
i am the silence between every word
i am the trigger for every mind's thought
i am the breath that all lungs hunger for
i am the beat of the heart that goes unnoticed
i am the passion when women are damp
i am the lust when men are hard
i am the juggler that spins the planets
i am the vision that sees the universe
i am the love that stirs all creativity
i am the song that sings inside the head
i am the shit that falls from all assholes
i am the wine that drinks to celebration
i am the bread that nourishes the body
i am the hum that creeps into the ears
i am the growth that fills all things
i am the mystic that enchants the poet
i am the power that drives the world
i am the ignored due to others stupidity
i am the wheel that drives the cart
i am the light that illumines all life
i am the darkness that saddens loneliness
i am the rose inside the seed
i am the butterfly in the caterpillar
i am the fragrance inside the flower
i am the no thing that contains the every thing
i am the every thing that contains the no thing
i am the craziness that is not understood
i am the personality that all have become
i am the loss that needs to be regained
i am the itch that needs to be scratched
i am the fart that many find offensive
i am the laughter after the tears have fallen
i am the exhaustion that brings this to an end
* * * * * * *
NS: Hey Cecil, now on creative vacation,
What are you making now?
This morning after I did my walk, I made breakfast for both Soo and myself. The M-Th menu being oatmeal kicked up with wheat germ and flax seed. That along with a piece of toast (or two) and my 2nd cuppa joe usually will pull me thru the morn.
As far as anything creative... nothing planned as of yet.
How about you? Got anything in the creative seas washing up on the shores of completion?
NS: With a handful of crossed and erect fingers, it is no wonder your typing is not going so well for you.
You should see those days when I'm all thumbs...
NS: That’s what, about 75 years until your perfect moment strikes again? You may as well get used to ‘less than perfect’ for awhile. Or, you could do as I have done, and perfect ‘imperfection.’
To Haley, 75 years is but a moment in time, while I, my friend, will consider myself quite fortunate to make it to that ripe age. Altho, I may give some serious thought (well Not Serious enough to become baggage) to perfecting my own imperfection... it should be quite a sight!
NS: Is there much flexibility in your pricing?
Make me an offer...
NS: ‘Porpoise’? I’ll admit, they are a very nice sea mammal, and all that, but aren’t you being a bit excessive? Perhaps, it’s all that ale.
Very good, N(o)S(hite)! But I've already been a porpoise... a porpoise without purpose. But that was far longer back in my several incarnations I've milked from life... This present incarnation has been, so far, a nice yin/yang duality that has been rather paradisaical with a nice mix of chaos and creative confusion to leave me gasping for more.
N(ever)S(pit): Doubtless, Mr. Rodale would organically spit on me.
Should ol' J.I. still be organically preaching the garden gospels, I trust he would shake your semi-organically gardening hand and give you a green thumbs up for effort. Indeed, I think he would be pleasantly surprised to see how many adherents his methods have drawn in since his passing on the Dick Cavett show some 38 years ago.
NS: I’ve read of special varieties of tomato plants that grow well in desert conditions. Also, you may want to use shade cloths for other crops.
We've had good success with the Celebrity tomato for the past few years, but this years attempt fell fall short with tomatoes that resembled deep red golf balls with little flavor. A few areas of our limited space had gotten the dreaded root nematode. Any successful cure for that?
NS: Do you juice the pomegranates? Can you grow citrus in your climate?
We haven't done any juicing in several years when SooZen did in order to make an extremely delicious pomegranate jelly. But we sell our excess fruits at the Farmer's Market and keep a relatively small supply in reserve... SooZen makes a delicious salsa... a mix of 'pico de gallo' and an even amount of pomegranates - so fine for dipping organic corn chips washed down with a cool ale.
NS: My bird friends are too fat to chase crickets, as my wife keeps them beak deep in black oil sunflower seeds.
Good for your wife... keeping you away from those black oil sunflower seeds must be a difficult job, is it not? We feed our birds daily using a local commercial mix that has no waste of seeds as all of them are desired by the birds in our area. Have you grown any sunflowers that have these seeds?
NS: If it is “Absolute” it certainly is not born, nor contained. What you call the “Void” sounds more like any Absolute that meets the definition, or experience.
Poetic license, amigo... however, ,'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God,' strongly suggests that there was , indeed, a beginning. If we are to accept this, then what began originated from, not necessarily a 'place' but what I call the Void.. where all came from and all shall return, an endless and infinite journey of existence within which all answers shall be answered so a return to the Wholly Silence will be fully understood.
NS: But, it is also said that “God is a jealous god.” What this means is that if we mistake our Spirit for the mind’s objects (e.g. NS or MT) then we are placing our heart and soul’s belief into a false god. Eckhart says, ”If the soul turns outward to other objects, it will die.”
Now, this isn’t about some vengeful theistic deity who feels slighted, but rather concerns the how-to of one’s discovery of their void-like Spirit.
Eckhart sounds so vengeful himself in this quote. It's an admonition to keep attuned to one's inner being, the Soul, or lose the way. This differs from my trust that all will find their true Self when that moment is the moment to know. Until that time, those that are still in slumber, share in the ability to enjoy this material world and all that it provides us in order for all to continue surfing towards the inner soul, knowingly or not. There have been untold numbers of people for millennia who have attempted to become one with God, Self Realized, enter into Nirvana, sit at the Right Hand of God... or whatever word(s) one believes to be the goal of religion, to confirm there is a deity which is the Absolute. But until one is ready, finished with this material world and ready, truly ready and more than willing, to become a true pilgrim, a sannayasin, whose only focus is their burning desire to come face-to-face with their inner being... if these are not paramount in their heart of hearts, they will once again return to the Wheel of Life... Life as we know it and live it. We all are in good company...
______
I Am
i am the silence between every word
i am the trigger for every mind's thought
i am the breath that all lungs hunger for
i am the beat of the heart that goes unnoticed
i am the passion when women are damp
i am the lust when men are hard
i am the juggler that spins the planets
i am the vision that sees the universe
i am the love that stirs all creativity
i am the song that sings inside the head
i am the shit that falls from all assholes
i am the wine that drinks to celebration
i am the bread that nourishes the body
i am the hum that creeps into the ears
i am the growth that fills all things
i am the mystic that enchants the poet
i am the power that drives the world
i am the ignored due to others stupidity
i am the wheel that drives the cart
i am the light that illumines all life
i am the darkness that saddens loneliness
i am the rose inside the seed
i am the butterfly in the caterpillar
i am the fragrance inside the flower
i am the no thing that contains the every thing
i am the every thing that contains the no thing
i am the craziness that is not understood
i am the personality that all have become
i am the loss that needs to be regained
i am the itch that needs to be scratched
i am the fart that many find offensive
i am the laughter after the tears have fallen
i am the exhaustion that brings this to an end
* * * * * * *
_________________________________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Allow not destiny to intrude upon Now
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Allow not destiny to intrude upon Now
-
Non Sum
Hi Cecil,
So, your creative compulsions have you “making breakfast.”
You artists are unstoppable. I bake a variety of whole-wheat quick breads (about 4 loaves per week) for my breakfast & snacking pleasure. This gives me a chance to incorporate a lot of what we’ve grown (pears, apples, pumpkin, squash, cucumber, berries, onions, etc.), or is getting old like bananas.
MT: How about you? Got anything in the creative seas washing up on the shores of completion?
NS: I’m currently putting together this year’s transactions for ’09 taxes, trying Not to indulge my “creative” urges. Otherwise, my (quote) “creativity” finds its outlet in practical applications. I’m always looking for a better, cheaper, easier, more fun, way of doing whatever needs to be done around the old homestead. Also, I’m always searching for the best way to match my investments to the current market conditions using combinations of: stocks, stock options, bonds, commodities and currencies.
MT: You should see those days when I'm all thumbs...
NS:
And, no matter your humanly best intentions, your thumbs are probably always opposed.
MT: I may give some serious thought (well Not Serious enough to become baggage) to perfecting my own imperfection... it should be quite a sight!
NS: They (whoever ‘they’ are?) contradictorily say, “you can’t be perfect unless you admit your faults.” Which pretty much leaves me imperfect … albeit, faultless.
MT: This present incarnation has been, so far, a nice yin/yang duality that has been rather paradisiacal with a nice mix of chaos and creative confusion to leave me gasping for more.
NS: It’s a common Hindu perception that the karmic cycle will bring what now rides high at the zenith back down to the nadir, as surely as winter follows summer. So, if you are presently a god, or raja, living in paradise; get ready to be a demon, or an untouchable, next living in hell. Such are the ups & downs of life on the wheel’s “yin/yang duality,” you mentioned.
MT: Indeed, I think he would be pleasantly surprised to see how many adherents his methods have drawn in since his passing on the Dick Cavett show some 38 years ago.
NS: I do believe you are right. He was way ahead of his time. I didn’t realize he died on the Cavett show. If Norman Mahler was there, it would go a long way in explaining it.
MT: We've had good success with the Celebrity tomato for the past few years, but this years attempt fell fall short with tomatoes that resembled deep red golf balls with little flavor. A few areas of our limited space had gotten the dreaded root nematode. Any successful cure for that?
NS: I grow a lot of Celebrity as well; good taste, very productive. I understand that there are beneficial fungi that can do serious harm to nematodes. Beyond buying the specific funguses, working in a good deal of mulch and compost (manure and/or vegetative) can give you some of the fungal benefits, along with rotating your tomato sites. My tomatoes always get hit with a destructive fungus as the season progresses. My best recourse is to get indeterminate varieties that can grow faster than the fungus. My most economically productive crop is firewood = 90% of my heat.
MT: keeping you away from those black oil sunflower seeds must be a difficult job
NS: Not really. They are still in their shell, and my beak just isn’t up to the job. Besides, wifey smears Vasoline on the feeder posts to keep me, and the squirrels from climbing (it’s amusing to watch us attempt it, and then slowly slide right back down, landing on our furry ass).
MT: We feed our birds daily using a local commercial mix that has no waste of seeds as all of them are desired by the birds in our area.
NS: None of the mixes seem to suit the birds in our area, which means much of it goes to waste, unless I peck at it. Only a straight sunflower diet seems to get completely consumed by the chubby little gluttons.
MT: Have you grown any sunflowers that have these seeds?
NS: Only the “volunteers” resulting from the birds’ free-flying eliminative habits. We plant a few of the big sunflowers for the fun of it, and then hang up the heads to dry, then letting the birds pick out the seeds for themselves. They‘ll eat them, but then leave nasty notes of complaint hanging in the air.
MT: 'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God,' strongly suggests that there was , indeed, a beginning.
NS: Only what is relative is capable of having a “beginning.” Besides, that statement states that the “Word” was present “in the beginning,” not that the Word itself began at that time. Neither does it imply that God began, but rather that He and the Word were merely in attendance.
MT: It's an admonition to keep attuned to one's inner being, the Soul, or lose the way. This differs from my trust that all will find their true Self when that moment is the moment to know.
But until one is ready, finished with this material world and ready, truly ready and more than willing, to become a true pilgrim, a sannayasin, whose only focus is their burning desire to come face-to-face with their inner being... if these are not paramount in their heart of hearts, they will once again return to the Wheel of Life.
NS: Yes, exactly so. It is an admonition intended for those intent upon (i.e. impelled by) Spirit. IOW, for those whose “moment to know” is at hand. What gives life to Spiritual awakening is dying to (becoming unattached to) the merely apparent. I agree with you that each must follow their own inner compass, which could even be some evangelical Pharisaic nonsense, as you or I would see it. Yet, that does not alter the Truth of this next quote’s second sentence:
”Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.” (1 John 2:15)
The way a transcendental mystic lives this is that NS may well love the world, and (in the main) ‘he’ does, but never take one’s Self (i.e. ‘I Am‘) to be a worldly object (e.g. NS).
”The truth is that the more ourselves we are, the less Self is in us. That man who has denied himself will never lose track of God whatever his activity.” (Eckhart)
Your “I Am” poem is nothing short of excellent! And, I thank you for it. Your thought and writing style often remind me of my good friend, Henry David Thoreau. He was also nature’s child, and a member of the American, nineteenth century “transcendentalist” school, which regrettably restricted its transcendence to the concept, but never the fact. What I’d tell Henry is that there is no fault in his love of nature. Why shouldn’t nature admire itself. But, at the same time, there is no imperative that he believe that he, and nature’s Henry, are one and the same. God is in the garden, never ‘of’ the garden. Transcendently immanent.
I’ll part with Layman P’ang’s life parting words:
”I beg you just to regard as empty all that is existent and to beware of taking as real all that is non-existent. Fare you well in the world. All is like shadows and echoes.”
So, your creative compulsions have you “making breakfast.”
You artists are unstoppable. I bake a variety of whole-wheat quick breads (about 4 loaves per week) for my breakfast & snacking pleasure. This gives me a chance to incorporate a lot of what we’ve grown (pears, apples, pumpkin, squash, cucumber, berries, onions, etc.), or is getting old like bananas. MT: How about you? Got anything in the creative seas washing up on the shores of completion?
NS: I’m currently putting together this year’s transactions for ’09 taxes, trying Not to indulge my “creative” urges. Otherwise, my (quote) “creativity” finds its outlet in practical applications. I’m always looking for a better, cheaper, easier, more fun, way of doing whatever needs to be done around the old homestead. Also, I’m always searching for the best way to match my investments to the current market conditions using combinations of: stocks, stock options, bonds, commodities and currencies.
MT: You should see those days when I'm all thumbs...
NS:
And, no matter your humanly best intentions, your thumbs are probably always opposed.MT: I may give some serious thought (well Not Serious enough to become baggage) to perfecting my own imperfection... it should be quite a sight!
NS: They (whoever ‘they’ are?) contradictorily say, “you can’t be perfect unless you admit your faults.” Which pretty much leaves me imperfect … albeit, faultless.
MT: This present incarnation has been, so far, a nice yin/yang duality that has been rather paradisiacal with a nice mix of chaos and creative confusion to leave me gasping for more.
NS: It’s a common Hindu perception that the karmic cycle will bring what now rides high at the zenith back down to the nadir, as surely as winter follows summer. So, if you are presently a god, or raja, living in paradise; get ready to be a demon, or an untouchable, next living in hell. Such are the ups & downs of life on the wheel’s “yin/yang duality,” you mentioned.
MT: Indeed, I think he would be pleasantly surprised to see how many adherents his methods have drawn in since his passing on the Dick Cavett show some 38 years ago.
NS: I do believe you are right. He was way ahead of his time. I didn’t realize he died on the Cavett show. If Norman Mahler was there, it would go a long way in explaining it.
MT: We've had good success with the Celebrity tomato for the past few years, but this years attempt fell fall short with tomatoes that resembled deep red golf balls with little flavor. A few areas of our limited space had gotten the dreaded root nematode. Any successful cure for that?
NS: I grow a lot of Celebrity as well; good taste, very productive. I understand that there are beneficial fungi that can do serious harm to nematodes. Beyond buying the specific funguses, working in a good deal of mulch and compost (manure and/or vegetative) can give you some of the fungal benefits, along with rotating your tomato sites. My tomatoes always get hit with a destructive fungus as the season progresses. My best recourse is to get indeterminate varieties that can grow faster than the fungus. My most economically productive crop is firewood = 90% of my heat.
MT: keeping you away from those black oil sunflower seeds must be a difficult job
NS: Not really. They are still in their shell, and my beak just isn’t up to the job. Besides, wifey smears Vasoline on the feeder posts to keep me, and the squirrels from climbing (it’s amusing to watch us attempt it, and then slowly slide right back down, landing on our furry ass).
MT: We feed our birds daily using a local commercial mix that has no waste of seeds as all of them are desired by the birds in our area.
NS: None of the mixes seem to suit the birds in our area, which means much of it goes to waste, unless I peck at it. Only a straight sunflower diet seems to get completely consumed by the chubby little gluttons.
MT: Have you grown any sunflowers that have these seeds?
NS: Only the “volunteers” resulting from the birds’ free-flying eliminative habits. We plant a few of the big sunflowers for the fun of it, and then hang up the heads to dry, then letting the birds pick out the seeds for themselves. They‘ll eat them, but then leave nasty notes of complaint hanging in the air.
MT: 'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God,' strongly suggests that there was , indeed, a beginning.
NS: Only what is relative is capable of having a “beginning.” Besides, that statement states that the “Word” was present “in the beginning,” not that the Word itself began at that time. Neither does it imply that God began, but rather that He and the Word were merely in attendance.
MT: It's an admonition to keep attuned to one's inner being, the Soul, or lose the way. This differs from my trust that all will find their true Self when that moment is the moment to know.
But until one is ready, finished with this material world and ready, truly ready and more than willing, to become a true pilgrim, a sannayasin, whose only focus is their burning desire to come face-to-face with their inner being... if these are not paramount in their heart of hearts, they will once again return to the Wheel of Life.
NS: Yes, exactly so. It is an admonition intended for those intent upon (i.e. impelled by) Spirit. IOW, for those whose “moment to know” is at hand. What gives life to Spiritual awakening is dying to (becoming unattached to) the merely apparent. I agree with you that each must follow their own inner compass, which could even be some evangelical Pharisaic nonsense, as you or I would see it. Yet, that does not alter the Truth of this next quote’s second sentence:
”Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.” (1 John 2:15)
The way a transcendental mystic lives this is that NS may well love the world, and (in the main) ‘he’ does, but never take one’s Self (i.e. ‘I Am‘) to be a worldly object (e.g. NS).
”The truth is that the more ourselves we are, the less Self is in us. That man who has denied himself will never lose track of God whatever his activity.” (Eckhart)
Your “I Am” poem is nothing short of excellent! And, I thank you for it. Your thought and writing style often remind me of my good friend, Henry David Thoreau. He was also nature’s child, and a member of the American, nineteenth century “transcendentalist” school, which regrettably restricted its transcendence to the concept, but never the fact. What I’d tell Henry is that there is no fault in his love of nature. Why shouldn’t nature admire itself. But, at the same time, there is no imperative that he believe that he, and nature’s Henry, are one and the same. God is in the garden, never ‘of’ the garden. Transcendently immanent.
I’ll part with Layman P’ang’s life parting words:
”I beg you just to regard as empty all that is existent and to beware of taking as real all that is non-existent. Fare you well in the world. All is like shadows and echoes.”
Howdy, N(ice)S(mile!)... hoping your day was as productive as you intended.
I found some time this afternoon to reply to your last post...
NS: I bake a variety of whole-wheat quick breads (about 4 loaves per week) for my breakfast & snacking pleasure.
As I do the most cooking, I would be very interested in your basic recipe. The whole-wheat sold me.
NS: I’m always looking for a better, cheaper, easier, more fun, way of doing whatever needs to be done around the old homestead. Also, I’m always searching for the best way to match my investments to the current market conditions using combinations of: stocks, stock options, bonds, commodities and currencies.
I trust you take very special care of your eyes in order to always look. I currently have a problem with cataracts, noticeably in my right eye.. the left being my most used eye. I'm looking to March for a cataract operation when my Medicare will be (hopefully) in place.
As far as your investments dealing with the current market conditions, I'll have to bow out as gracefully as I know how, seeing my knowledge with such matters holds as much interest for me as studying the historical impact of idioms within the Outer Mongolian nomad culture, should there be any...
NS: And, no matter your humanly best intentions, your thumbs are probably always opposed.
Your use of the word, 'probably' is well-chosen as one could surmise given the sometimes struggling opposition between what is right and what is left... over and over, not that I'm directionally hampered, mynd you.
NS: It’s a common Hindu perception that the karmic cycle will bring what now rides high at the zenith back down to the nadir, as surely as winter follows summer. So, if you are presently a god, or raja, living in paradise; get ready to be a demon, or an untouchable, next living in hell. Such are the ups & downs of life on the wheel’s “yin/yang duality,” you mentioned.
Please remember what I strongly advise when it comes to beliefs... and this Hindoo perception could very well be just that – a perception based upon a singular idea that has been handed down far longer than need be. Too much of our past oftentimes has a tendency to shadow our present perceptions based more upon Now than Then...
NS: I do believe you are right. He was way ahead of his time. I didn’t realize he died on the Cavett show. If Norman Mahler was there, it would go a long way in explaining it.
Those that outrun the pack attain the goal faster but at the cost of impatience... But J.I.'s legacy was quite remarkable, with not only his monthly periodical “Organic Gardening” but “Prevention” magazine for a more natural approach to health. (Mahler..? a classical music buff..?)
NS: I grow a lot of Celebrity as well; good taste, very productive. I understand that there are beneficial fungi that can do serious harm to nematodes. Beyond buying the specific funguses, working in a good deal of mulch and compost (manure and/or vegetative) can give you some of the fungal benefits, along with rotating your tomato sites. My tomatoes always get hit with a destructive fungus as the season progresses. My best recourse is to get indeterminate varieties that can grow faster than the fungus.
The current location of the Celebrity was a spot that hadn't grown tomatoes in quite a few years, but I will stir up the soil in all the garden with lost o' manure and veggie compost. I keep a bag of one sort or another close by my chopping area where I toss in the cuttings that I shant eat. I dispose of these when the bag becomes full and nasty smelling into my compost pile or I occasionally bury them into an unused area of el jardin.
Re: MT: 'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God,' strongly suggests that there was , indeed, a beginning.
NS: Only what is relative is capable of having a “beginning.” Besides, that statement states that the “Word” was present “in the beginning,” not that the Word itself began at that time. Neither does it imply that God began, but rather that He and the Word were merely in attendance.
It seems I used "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God..." a Biblical quote that has been argued over by various scholars and Bible-thumpers for a very long time. I found this out earlier today while doing a bit of research on it after reading your own take on the quote.
First words in the Bible: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Then the Bible says: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
I assure you that I am not, nor have been, heavily involved in the Bible. So when someone like me reads these two passages, there was a beginning of heaven and earth... and there was a beginning which was a word. It's akin to saying in the beginning of the Big Bang with BOOM! being the first word (sound)...
So from this I know there is more than one 'perception' regarding these two quotes... two quotes and literally hundreds of interpretations spring from these words. Now rather than play the word game, who's interpretation is right and whose is out in left field... I would rather ask my Self about whose on first. Because in the end, should there be an end (there apparently was a beginning, eh?), this whole thing is nothing more than Mystical Licks being played by mind in order to answer another of mind's infinite questions... which came first, Word or Void (which is ironically a word)... mind cannot ask without using word(s), nor can there be any answers without words. The real beginning of Mind is the Word, not actually 'God' or whatever word one uses to symbolize this Pure Consciousness (2 words!) that, IMHO, sprang forth from the Void, the very darkness that sought Light in order to visualize the answers that Mind spews forth, like the Big Bang spewing forth that which we know to be the Universe. Mind is insistent upon knowing and in order to know mind must have words to express what it knows or desires to know... there is no other way for Mind to be Mindful... how else to fill Mind if not with words?
NS: I agree with you that each must follow their own inner compass, which could even be some evangelical Pharisaic nonsense, as you or I would see it. Yet, that does not alter the Truth of this next quote’s second sentence:
'Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.'(1 John 2:15)”
The way a transcendental mystic lives this is that NS may well love the world, and (in the main) ‘he’ does, but never take one’s Self (i.e. ‘I Am‘) to be a worldly object (e.g. NS).[/i
”The truth is that the more ourselves we are, the less Self is in us. That man who has denied himself will never lose track of God whatever his activity.” (Eckhart)
My friend, despite the sincerity expressed by both these men, it is incumbent upon every true believer to experience that which they believe. To take the words of these fellows and swallow them whole as if they were gems of wisdom that all should partake of with gusto, is shameful and stupid for anyone to do without absorbing all these words have to say first! Too many believers only believe what they hear and when they hear they will lose God or their place in Heaven if they DO NOT BELIEVE what is being preached to them, puts all the blame on those who are shouting BELIEVE! As if they, themselves were personally selected by God to speak for Him. A dangerous path being paved with good intentions. This is a game where those same loud mouths are “taking the name of the Lord in Vain”... using God for their own advantage.
______________________
NS: Your “I Am” poem is nothing short of excellent! And, I thank you for it.
Thank you, amigo... I appreciate the comment. It's my simple way of passing on some of my own works in return for these remarkable quotes you come up with in your replies.
NS: Your thought and writing style often remind me of my good friend, Henry David Thoreau. He was also nature’s child, and a member of the American, nineteenth century “transcendentalist” school, which regrettably restricted its transcendence to the concept, but never the fact. What I’d tell Henry is that there is no fault in his love of nature. Why shouldn’t nature admire itself. But, at the same time, there is no imperative that he believe that he, and nature’s Henry, are one and the same. God is in the garden, never ‘of’ the garden. Transcendently immanent.
I’ll part with Layman P’ang’s life parting words:
”I beg you just to regard as empty all that is existent and to beware of taking as real all that is non-existent. Fare you well in the world. All is like shadows and echoes.”
Indeed, all is like shadows and echoes... especially as we gain that insight which brings us the personal experience of not only assuming those words to be true, but to know those words are true. With that, we may live in ease and dispel all that brings us ill-will due to our past beliefs we once felt to be the Truth but faded into the ethers like echoes lost to the wind.
I found some time this afternoon to reply to your last post...
NS: I bake a variety of whole-wheat quick breads (about 4 loaves per week) for my breakfast & snacking pleasure.
As I do the most cooking, I would be very interested in your basic recipe. The whole-wheat sold me.
NS: I’m always looking for a better, cheaper, easier, more fun, way of doing whatever needs to be done around the old homestead. Also, I’m always searching for the best way to match my investments to the current market conditions using combinations of: stocks, stock options, bonds, commodities and currencies.
I trust you take very special care of your eyes in order to always look. I currently have a problem with cataracts, noticeably in my right eye.. the left being my most used eye. I'm looking to March for a cataract operation when my Medicare will be (hopefully) in place.
As far as your investments dealing with the current market conditions, I'll have to bow out as gracefully as I know how, seeing my knowledge with such matters holds as much interest for me as studying the historical impact of idioms within the Outer Mongolian nomad culture, should there be any...
NS: And, no matter your humanly best intentions, your thumbs are probably always opposed.
Your use of the word, 'probably' is well-chosen as one could surmise given the sometimes struggling opposition between what is right and what is left... over and over, not that I'm directionally hampered, mynd you.
NS: It’s a common Hindu perception that the karmic cycle will bring what now rides high at the zenith back down to the nadir, as surely as winter follows summer. So, if you are presently a god, or raja, living in paradise; get ready to be a demon, or an untouchable, next living in hell. Such are the ups & downs of life on the wheel’s “yin/yang duality,” you mentioned.
Please remember what I strongly advise when it comes to beliefs... and this Hindoo perception could very well be just that – a perception based upon a singular idea that has been handed down far longer than need be. Too much of our past oftentimes has a tendency to shadow our present perceptions based more upon Now than Then...
NS: I do believe you are right. He was way ahead of his time. I didn’t realize he died on the Cavett show. If Norman Mahler was there, it would go a long way in explaining it.
Those that outrun the pack attain the goal faster but at the cost of impatience... But J.I.'s legacy was quite remarkable, with not only his monthly periodical “Organic Gardening” but “Prevention” magazine for a more natural approach to health. (Mahler..? a classical music buff..?)
NS: I grow a lot of Celebrity as well; good taste, very productive. I understand that there are beneficial fungi that can do serious harm to nematodes. Beyond buying the specific funguses, working in a good deal of mulch and compost (manure and/or vegetative) can give you some of the fungal benefits, along with rotating your tomato sites. My tomatoes always get hit with a destructive fungus as the season progresses. My best recourse is to get indeterminate varieties that can grow faster than the fungus.
The current location of the Celebrity was a spot that hadn't grown tomatoes in quite a few years, but I will stir up the soil in all the garden with lost o' manure and veggie compost. I keep a bag of one sort or another close by my chopping area where I toss in the cuttings that I shant eat.
I dispose of these when the bag becomes full and nasty smelling into my compost pile or I occasionally bury them into an unused area of el jardin. Re: MT: 'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God,' strongly suggests that there was , indeed, a beginning.
NS: Only what is relative is capable of having a “beginning.” Besides, that statement states that the “Word” was present “in the beginning,” not that the Word itself began at that time. Neither does it imply that God began, but rather that He and the Word were merely in attendance.
It seems I used "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God..." a Biblical quote that has been argued over by various scholars and Bible-thumpers for a very long time. I found this out earlier today while doing a bit of research on it after reading your own take on the quote.
First words in the Bible: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Then the Bible says: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
I assure you that I am not, nor have been, heavily involved in the Bible. So when someone like me reads these two passages, there was a beginning of heaven and earth... and there was a beginning which was a word. It's akin to saying in the beginning of the Big Bang with BOOM! being the first word (sound)...
So from this I know there is more than one 'perception' regarding these two quotes... two quotes and literally hundreds of interpretations spring from these words. Now rather than play the word game, who's interpretation is right and whose is out in left field... I would rather ask my Self about whose on first.
Because in the end, should there be an end (there apparently was a beginning, eh?), this whole thing is nothing more than Mystical Licks being played by mind in order to answer another of mind's infinite questions... which came first, Word or Void (which is ironically a word)... mind cannot ask without using word(s), nor can there be any answers without words. The real beginning of Mind is the Word, not actually 'God' or whatever word one uses to symbolize this Pure Consciousness (2 words!) that, IMHO, sprang forth from the Void, the very darkness that sought Light in order to visualize the answers that Mind spews forth, like the Big Bang spewing forth that which we know to be the Universe. Mind is insistent upon knowing and in order to know mind must have words to express what it knows or desires to know... there is no other way for Mind to be Mindful... how else to fill Mind if not with words? NS: I agree with you that each must follow their own inner compass, which could even be some evangelical Pharisaic nonsense, as you or I would see it. Yet, that does not alter the Truth of this next quote’s second sentence:
'Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.'(1 John 2:15)”
The way a transcendental mystic lives this is that NS may well love the world, and (in the main) ‘he’ does, but never take one’s Self (i.e. ‘I Am‘) to be a worldly object (e.g. NS).[/i
”The truth is that the more ourselves we are, the less Self is in us. That man who has denied himself will never lose track of God whatever his activity.” (Eckhart)
My friend, despite the sincerity expressed by both these men, it is incumbent upon every true believer to experience that which they believe. To take the words of these fellows and swallow them whole as if they were gems of wisdom that all should partake of with gusto, is shameful and stupid for anyone to do without absorbing all these words have to say first! Too many believers only believe what they hear and when they hear they will lose God or their place in Heaven if they DO NOT BELIEVE what is being preached to them, puts all the blame on those who are shouting BELIEVE! As if they, themselves were personally selected by God to speak for Him. A dangerous path being paved with good intentions. This is a game where those same loud mouths are “taking the name of the Lord in Vain”... using God for their own advantage.
______________________
NS: Your “I Am” poem is nothing short of excellent! And, I thank you for it.
Thank you, amigo... I appreciate the comment. It's my simple way of passing on some of my own works in return for these remarkable quotes you come up with in your replies.
NS: Your thought and writing style often remind me of my good friend, Henry David Thoreau. He was also nature’s child, and a member of the American, nineteenth century “transcendentalist” school, which regrettably restricted its transcendence to the concept, but never the fact. What I’d tell Henry is that there is no fault in his love of nature. Why shouldn’t nature admire itself. But, at the same time, there is no imperative that he believe that he, and nature’s Henry, are one and the same. God is in the garden, never ‘of’ the garden. Transcendently immanent.
I’ll part with Layman P’ang’s life parting words:
”I beg you just to regard as empty all that is existent and to beware of taking as real all that is non-existent. Fare you well in the world. All is like shadows and echoes.”
Indeed, all is like shadows and echoes... especially as we gain that insight which brings us the personal experience of not only assuming those words to be true, but to know those words are true. With that, we may live in ease and dispel all that brings us ill-will due to our past beliefs we once felt to be the Truth but faded into the ethers like echoes lost to the wind.
_________________________________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Allow not destiny to intrude upon Now
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Allow not destiny to intrude upon Now
-
Non Sum
Howdy MT (Might Tipsy),
MT: Howdy, N(ice)S(mile!)... hoping your day was as productive as you intended.
NS (Nasty Snarl, is more my 'good mood' face) : All days are, “Productive” & Destructive; impossible to tell, or to tear, them apart.
MT: I found some time this afternoon to reply to your last post.
NS: “Time” is always hard to find, and increasingly precious in these our declining hours. I appreciate your generosity in sharing your find with me, thank you.
MT: As I do the most cooking, I would be very interested in your basic recipe. The whole-wheat sold me.
NS: You don’t normally bake with whole-wheat flour? I strongly recommend the well ground Gold Medal, or Pillsbury, rather than the heavier ‘stone-ground’ varieties. I’ve shifted from using 2 loaf pans to a single 9X14 cake pan for shorter-easier baking at 325 degrees. Time can vary depending on what fruit, veg, nuts, seeds, you may add. I just start checking it after 35 min., it usually takes 40 to 55 min.
3 ½ c of flour, 1c sugar, 1 heaping Tbsp baking powder, 1tsp salt, 1/4c oil, 1 jumbo egg (use 2 other size), 2/3 cup powdered nonfat milk, and add water (or liquid milk) just enough to dissolve & easily mix ingredients together.
I regularly add 2/3 c of chopped walnuts, and ½ c of shredded coconut, and lightly sprinkle cinnamon sugar on the top.
Mix all the dry ingredients first. Then add your nuts/seeds and fruit to get them spread through it. Lastly add all the wet stuff, but do not let it get soupy or you’ll be baking all day. You can rotate flavors. The amounts I’ve found work best are: Banana takes 3 (chopped or mashed), apple 3 med-large, pears 3-4, onion 1 large, zucchini 1 med-large grated, berries 1 quart of, carrot a full pint of grated, pumpkin or squash grated (but mashed & cooked is also good & slightly different tasting). Add 1 Tbsp pumpkin spice (or blend up some: cinnamon, ginger, allspice to make your own) for pumpkin or squash bread.
If you’ve nothing in the house to add for fruit or veg, just add 1 Tbsp of chocolate powder to dry ingredients.
For waffles/pancakes its nearly the same, but simpler: 2 ½ c w-w flour, 1tsp salt, ¼ c oil, 2 jumbo eggs (3 other size), 2/3 powder milk, add water/milk to make a thick soupy mix. It makes about 15 waffle squares of which, if not overly grilled, what is left can be kept in the frig for a couple weeks of instant toaster resurrection for quick lunches.
MT: I currently have a problem with cataracts, noticeably in my right eye.. the left being my most used eye. I'm looking to March for a cataract operation when my Medicare will be (hopefully) in place.
NS: I’m sorry to hear this. It must be a tough turn of events for an artist. I know it haunted Henri Matisse. Is your 65th birthday in March? My wife got into Medicare a couple of years ago, while I’ve got a year from next March 28 to wait. Good luck, my friend.
Yeah, I can dig how finance can be seen as mind deadeningly dull to someone. Numismatic or philatelic endeavors, ever so fascinating to some, also leaves me dumb and numb. Yet, making, or ‘losing,’ tens of thousands in a few days puts me on the edge of my seat like nothing else can.
MT: this Hindoo perception could very well be just that – a perception based upon a singular idea that has been handed down far longer than need be.
NS: You may well be right. I merely mentioned it in the context of the “wheel” that you mentioned earlier, since it is a ‘Hindu’ wheel in origin. For those who subscribe to rebirth, the alternation of fortune makes some sense in its consistency with both duality, and the natural alternating cyclic nature of most every aspect of our environment and lives. Why assume this one thing to be an exception when there is nothing to support it that I can see?
MT: (Mahler..? a classical music buff..?)
NS: Oops. I meant ‘Norman Mailer,’ a pugnacious,
contentious regular on Cavett’s show.
MT: I assure you that I am not, nor have been, heavily involved in the Bible. So when someone like me reads these two passages, there was a beginning of heaven and earth... and there was a beginning which was a word. It's akin to saying in the beginning of the Big Bang with BOOM! being the first word (sound).
NS: I too am not heavy into the Bible, and only meant to correct via the term “Absolute” which by definition (dictionary, not Bible) precludes finite conditions, like being contained by something else, or beginnings and endings. I give no truck to Big Bangs, nor to creator gods; all stuff for ‘believers.’
MT: there apparently was a beginning, eh?
NS: Not ‘apparent’ to moi. But then, I came into the theatre after the film had already started, in 1946. So, I’ll have to take your word for how, or if, it began. Hindu cosmology has the universe in constant pulsation, which has this present physical universe as no more than one heart beat in an infinite series that never begins, nor ends. That too is older than I am, so, I would have to take such things on faith; were I one capable of faith, which I am not.
MT: My friend, despite the sincerity expressed by both these men, it is incumbent upon every true believer to experience that which they believe.
NS: True indeed. And, since Eckhart and John are considered to be preeminent mystics, these quotes are Not to be taken on faith at all. Rather, one must take a mystic much as you’d take the words of a master plumber. I.e. as instructions on ‘how to’ proceed in order to obtain a result that will both accomplish what you desire to, and which also will confirm the plumber’s instructions as sufficient to the task. A true mystic does not ‘do’ faith/belief. Eckhart is not speaking of a theistic god, and is as much of an atheist as I am, and have always been. Eckhart is not saying anything essentially different from the mystics found in: Hindusim, Sufism, Buddhism, Hasidism, Sikhism, Taoism, and among many western philosophers.
MT: A dangerous path being paved with good intentions.
NS: There are no “dangerous paths” by my reckoning. We all follow our inner guru to ‘our’ path. If it isn’t your path, then you will not be drawn to it. It was you who recently, and wisely, said:
” But until one is ready, finished with this material world and ready, truly ready and more than willing, to become a true pilgrim, a sannayasin, whose only focus is their burning desire to come face-to-face with their inner being... if these are not paramount in their heart of hearts, they will once again return to the Wheel of Life... Life as we know it and live it.”
Mystics, such as Eckhart (who is Christianity’s greatest mystic), are speaking to a select audience of “true pilgrims, sannayasins” with the authority of master plumbers speaking to dedicated novices. True, what they say is hard to accept for those who are not yet “ready and willing.” For the ‘ready’ these words are easy to accept, and refreshing to hear. When St. John says, ”If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.” he means by, “the Father in him,” when a “ready and willing true pilgrim” has had this ‘willing’ come into him – driving him Homeward. This is the gift of the Father ‘coming into’ a creature’s life, his term of deluded separation on the wheel of dreams now coming to its end. Yes, of course, all of us are already Spirit (having, ‘the Father within’), but how many live that realization of being a pure (of all else) Spirit, and not a human, every minute of the day? The few who do, not only have the Father within, but also “the ‘love’ of the Father.”
MT: Howdy, N(ice)S(mile!)... hoping your day was as productive as you intended.
NS (Nasty Snarl, is more my 'good mood' face) : All days are, “Productive” & Destructive; impossible to tell, or to tear, them apart.
MT: I found some time this afternoon to reply to your last post.
NS: “Time” is always hard to find, and increasingly precious in these our declining hours. I appreciate your generosity in sharing your find with me, thank you.
MT: As I do the most cooking, I would be very interested in your basic recipe. The whole-wheat sold me.
NS: You don’t normally bake with whole-wheat flour? I strongly recommend the well ground Gold Medal, or Pillsbury, rather than the heavier ‘stone-ground’ varieties. I’ve shifted from using 2 loaf pans to a single 9X14 cake pan for shorter-easier baking at 325 degrees. Time can vary depending on what fruit, veg, nuts, seeds, you may add. I just start checking it after 35 min., it usually takes 40 to 55 min.
3 ½ c of flour, 1c sugar, 1 heaping Tbsp baking powder, 1tsp salt, 1/4c oil, 1 jumbo egg (use 2 other size), 2/3 cup powdered nonfat milk, and add water (or liquid milk) just enough to dissolve & easily mix ingredients together.
I regularly add 2/3 c of chopped walnuts, and ½ c of shredded coconut, and lightly sprinkle cinnamon sugar on the top.
Mix all the dry ingredients first. Then add your nuts/seeds and fruit to get them spread through it. Lastly add all the wet stuff, but do not let it get soupy or you’ll be baking all day. You can rotate flavors. The amounts I’ve found work best are: Banana takes 3 (chopped or mashed), apple 3 med-large, pears 3-4, onion 1 large, zucchini 1 med-large grated, berries 1 quart of, carrot a full pint of grated, pumpkin or squash grated (but mashed & cooked is also good & slightly different tasting). Add 1 Tbsp pumpkin spice (or blend up some: cinnamon, ginger, allspice to make your own) for pumpkin or squash bread.
If you’ve nothing in the house to add for fruit or veg, just add 1 Tbsp of chocolate powder to dry ingredients.
For waffles/pancakes its nearly the same, but simpler: 2 ½ c w-w flour, 1tsp salt, ¼ c oil, 2 jumbo eggs (3 other size), 2/3 powder milk, add water/milk to make a thick soupy mix. It makes about 15 waffle squares of which, if not overly grilled, what is left can be kept in the frig for a couple weeks of instant toaster resurrection for quick lunches.
MT: I currently have a problem with cataracts, noticeably in my right eye.. the left being my most used eye. I'm looking to March for a cataract operation when my Medicare will be (hopefully) in place.
NS: I’m sorry to hear this. It must be a tough turn of events for an artist. I know it haunted Henri Matisse. Is your 65th birthday in March? My wife got into Medicare a couple of years ago, while I’ve got a year from next March 28 to wait. Good luck, my friend.
Yeah, I can dig how finance can be seen as mind deadeningly dull to someone. Numismatic or philatelic endeavors, ever so fascinating to some, also leaves me dumb and numb. Yet, making, or ‘losing,’ tens of thousands in a few days puts me on the edge of my seat like nothing else can.
MT: this Hindoo perception could very well be just that – a perception based upon a singular idea that has been handed down far longer than need be.
NS: You may well be right. I merely mentioned it in the context of the “wheel” that you mentioned earlier, since it is a ‘Hindu’ wheel in origin. For those who subscribe to rebirth, the alternation of fortune makes some sense in its consistency with both duality, and the natural alternating cyclic nature of most every aspect of our environment and lives. Why assume this one thing to be an exception when there is nothing to support it that I can see?
MT: (Mahler..? a classical music buff..?)
NS: Oops. I meant ‘Norman Mailer,’ a pugnacious,
contentious regular on Cavett’s show.
MT: I assure you that I am not, nor have been, heavily involved in the Bible. So when someone like me reads these two passages, there was a beginning of heaven and earth... and there was a beginning which was a word. It's akin to saying in the beginning of the Big Bang with BOOM! being the first word (sound).
NS: I too am not heavy into the Bible, and only meant to correct via the term “Absolute” which by definition (dictionary, not Bible) precludes finite conditions, like being contained by something else, or beginnings and endings. I give no truck to Big Bangs, nor to creator gods; all stuff for ‘believers.’
MT: there apparently was a beginning, eh?
NS: Not ‘apparent’ to moi. But then, I came into the theatre after the film had already started, in 1946. So, I’ll have to take your word for how, or if, it began. Hindu cosmology has the universe in constant pulsation, which has this present physical universe as no more than one heart beat in an infinite series that never begins, nor ends. That too is older than I am, so, I would have to take such things on faith; were I one capable of faith, which I am not.
MT: My friend, despite the sincerity expressed by both these men, it is incumbent upon every true believer to experience that which they believe.
NS: True indeed. And, since Eckhart and John are considered to be preeminent mystics, these quotes are Not to be taken on faith at all. Rather, one must take a mystic much as you’d take the words of a master plumber. I.e. as instructions on ‘how to’ proceed in order to obtain a result that will both accomplish what you desire to, and which also will confirm the plumber’s instructions as sufficient to the task. A true mystic does not ‘do’ faith/belief. Eckhart is not speaking of a theistic god, and is as much of an atheist as I am, and have always been. Eckhart is not saying anything essentially different from the mystics found in: Hindusim, Sufism, Buddhism, Hasidism, Sikhism, Taoism, and among many western philosophers.
MT: A dangerous path being paved with good intentions.
NS: There are no “dangerous paths” by my reckoning. We all follow our inner guru to ‘our’ path. If it isn’t your path, then you will not be drawn to it. It was you who recently, and wisely, said:
” But until one is ready, finished with this material world and ready, truly ready and more than willing, to become a true pilgrim, a sannayasin, whose only focus is their burning desire to come face-to-face with their inner being... if these are not paramount in their heart of hearts, they will once again return to the Wheel of Life... Life as we know it and live it.”
Mystics, such as Eckhart (who is Christianity’s greatest mystic), are speaking to a select audience of “true pilgrims, sannayasins” with the authority of master plumbers speaking to dedicated novices. True, what they say is hard to accept for those who are not yet “ready and willing.” For the ‘ready’ these words are easy to accept, and refreshing to hear. When St. John says, ”If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.” he means by, “the Father in him,” when a “ready and willing true pilgrim” has had this ‘willing’ come into him – driving him Homeward. This is the gift of the Father ‘coming into’ a creature’s life, his term of deluded separation on the wheel of dreams now coming to its end. Yes, of course, all of us are already Spirit (having, ‘the Father within’), but how many live that realization of being a pure (of all else) Spirit, and not a human, every minute of the day? The few who do, not only have the Father within, but also “the ‘love’ of the Father.”
Good Morgan, TN...
After reading your recipe late yesterday, I was anxious to try out the bread seeing as we didn't have enough sweets to choose from! Last night I wrote down the ingredients and tweaked them accordingly substituting agave nectar for the sugar and using both bananas and a can of crushed pineapple along with a generous helping of lightly roasted pecans chopped to fit the bill. Some time ago SooZen found a recipe for banana nut bread using whole wheat flour exclusively which fit the prescription for her diabetic requirements... this and the addition of pineapple was a must... my mother used that extra ingredient in her recipe for the bread which was enjoyed by all.
Anyhoo... the mixture was slapped together and I poured it into my pan and placed such into the 325 oven... From there I will paste what my mate wrote on her blog, Zen Upchuck, today:
"Cec got a recipe from one of his buddies on Studio Eight for a quick bread which one can add fresh fruits or savories to. It uses whole wheat flour and agave can be substituted for the sugar. He immediately wanted to try it out but forgot one major item...the pan size (important item!) Instead of the 9 x 14 pan, he used a 9 x 9 inch pan and the results were, let's say, interesting. He had used some bananas, pineapple, and pecans for the fruits and nuts. The bread rose up like the Incredible Hulk (except it wasn't green) and of course, took forever to bake because the center wasn't done but the outside edges were past done. It was still tasty even tho it would have been much better (and tamer) if the correct pan had been used. Live and learn...and following directions when it comes to recipes matters! Here is the recipe (I urge you to use the correct sized pan(s) if you want to try it.' [full article:http://soozen.livejournal.com/]
She gave my blooper away to all to see, the joyful woman she is...
I blamed the pan size error on my cataract, (which btw is scheduled for March because that is when the doctor is available). But most importantly is the bread turned out large and flavorful, despite a questionable center. I overindulged last night (and SooZ had a bit extra herself!) because it was soooo damn good. This morning after our oatmeal and rye toast, I once again cut into the loaf too enjoy with my 2d cuppa joe.
A before picture: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/rM ... directlink
NS: For those who subscribe to rebirth, the alternation of fortune makes some sense in its consistency with both duality, and the natural alternating cyclic nature of most every aspect of our environment and lives. Why assume this one thing to be an exception when there is nothing to support it that I can see?
I think we both agree on rebirth, but we may quibble over the (meaningless) details - whether this duality includes fortune and loss, ups and downs, etc, which may be the mind necessitating a meaningful (to mind) logic which may not prevail in the much larger scheme of rebirth. But we all enjoy the mental exercise these theories provoke or else we wouldn't have theories at all... mind food, if you will, nourishing and tasty while indulging but if not careful, indigestion or heartburn of the mind may follow. And if not, surely all that mind food ultimately runs its course through the bowels of thought and returns to the ethers... perhaps it's own rebirth, eh?
NS: "I give no truck to Big Bangs, nor to creator gods; all stuff for ‘believers.’"
Again, mind games necessary for mind to do what it does best... something as important or not as a game of scrabble or monopoly for the hu'man in us.
NS: Not ‘apparent’ to moi. But then, I came into the theatre after the film had already started, in 1946. So, I’ll have to take your word for how, or if, it began.
Nice! Brought me a smile that lit up the dark corners of my mouth still savoring the taste of fresh bread...
NS: Hindu cosmology has the universe in constant pulsation, which has this present physical universe as no more than one heart beat in an infinite series that never begins, nor ends. That too is older than I am, so, I would have to take such things on faith; were I one capable of faith, which I am not.
I agree with them ancients on this, N(ot)S(ure)... since any other theory has leaks in them regarding this present physical universe and the leaks make for a slippery surface to call a sound foundation... IMHO, of course. This is one of those rare 'faiths' I indulge in... the universe may indeed have had a Big Bang but if that is fact, there will someday be evidence that this B-B was one of several and unending B-B's.
NS: ... Eckhart and John are considered to be preeminent mystics, these quotes are Not to be taken on faith at all. Rather, one must take a mystic much as you’d take the words of a master plumber.
I could easily differ on this master plumber analogy, you know..? Afterall what our plumbers do is physically proveable, unlike the mystic who only has words to substantiate what they have experienced, yes? Not that the furnished quotes you provided are crap... not at all! But I feel they are more believable to those that have had the same experiences rather than those who are clueless about such matters of the mind and beyond. This is akin to the story of the frog who was born and raised his entire life in a well. When another frog came into the well and told the well-dweller about the outside world, the poor fellow thought the visitor to be mad... there is nothing outside this world of the well-dweller.
NS: A true mystic does not ‘do’ faith/belief.
They may not 'do' faith/belief regarding having faith or believing in things and stuff blindlessly, but once they know, the know the knowing results in their own faith and belief.
NS: Eckhart is not speaking of a theistic god, and is as much of an atheist as I am, and have always been. Eckhart is not saying anything essentially different from the mystics found in: Hindusim, Sufism, Buddhism, Hasidism, Sikhism, Taoism, and among many western philosophers.
I am in agreement with your last part - that all mystics are first and foremost mystics, It's the other names which they may still carry with them, but being mystics they are well-aware these other labels are exactly that... labels insufficient to express the fullness of the chosen word, mystic. Even the 'title' philosopher cannot fully contain all that the mystic has become.
But allow me, amigo, to bring up something you posted that I'd like your thoughts on...
Eckhart is not speaking of a theistic god, and is as much of an atheist as I am...
and -
Eckhart (who is Christianity’s greatest mystic)
Do these two lines seem opposed to each other to you as they do to me? Can it be 'true' that Eckhart is both an atheist and a Christian?
NS: ... how many live that realization of being a pure (of all else) Spirit, and not a human, every minute of the day? The few who do, not only have the Father within, but also “the ‘love’ of the Father.”
Re: 1st sentence- this is too dismissive towards our treasured hu'manity, my friend. Who is this entity I am communicating with if it is not thru the very necessary hu'man, NS, that contains within the Light. For without this vessel, would the Light be ever known? Arguably (of course!) Spirit 'requires' body in order to both sustain and allow Spirit become known as the 'Father' within, as you named 'it.' Why does NS take such care of his health, his body, if it held no importance...other than a cardboard shack for the Light to reside? Is not our body equally important as Spirit as long as we are born into hu'manity upon this world we have named Earth? I submit the physical, the mental and the spiritual are the Wholly Trinity.
I'm sure we're in agreement with the importance, the divinity of the Light within all life which is without beginning and without end... Alpha and Omega. Our physicality, our body does not remain as it is, as we well know, but upon it's fulfillment as the vessel for carrying the Light within. This physical body goes thru the infinite process of change as each molecular particle becomes rearranged in an eternal orchestration conducted by the mystical forces of Nature in a continuing OM... the song of the Universe praising the 'Father'...
(hmmm... should i have one more slice of that bread..? sounds so good after this workout i've gone thru... hmmmm... and a fresh cuppa joe... i just may do that. a salute to NS for his wonderful recipe...)
After reading your recipe late yesterday, I was anxious to try out the bread seeing as we didn't have enough sweets to choose from!
Last night I wrote down the ingredients and tweaked them accordingly substituting agave nectar for the sugar and using both bananas and a can of crushed pineapple along with a generous helping of lightly roasted pecans chopped to fit the bill. Some time ago SooZen found a recipe for banana nut bread using whole wheat flour exclusively which fit the prescription for her diabetic requirements... this and the addition of pineapple was a must... my mother used that extra ingredient in her recipe for the bread which was enjoyed by all.Anyhoo... the mixture was slapped together and I poured it into my pan and placed such into the 325 oven... From there I will paste what my mate wrote on her blog, Zen Upchuck, today:
"Cec got a recipe from one of his buddies on Studio Eight for a quick bread which one can add fresh fruits or savories to. It uses whole wheat flour and agave can be substituted for the sugar. He immediately wanted to try it out but forgot one major item...the pan size (important item!) Instead of the 9 x 14 pan, he used a 9 x 9 inch pan and the results were, let's say, interesting. He had used some bananas, pineapple, and pecans for the fruits and nuts. The bread rose up like the Incredible Hulk (except it wasn't green) and of course, took forever to bake because the center wasn't done but the outside edges were past done. It was still tasty even tho it would have been much better (and tamer) if the correct pan had been used. Live and learn...and following directions when it comes to recipes matters! Here is the recipe (I urge you to use the correct sized pan(s) if you want to try it.' [full article:http://soozen.livejournal.com/]
She gave my blooper away to all to see, the joyful woman she is...
I blamed the pan size error on my cataract, (which btw is scheduled for March because that is when the doctor is available). But most importantly is the bread turned out large and flavorful, despite a questionable center. I overindulged last night (and SooZ had a bit extra herself!) because it was soooo damn good. This morning after our oatmeal and rye toast, I once again cut into the loaf too enjoy with my 2d cuppa joe. A before picture: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/rM ... directlink
NS: For those who subscribe to rebirth, the alternation of fortune makes some sense in its consistency with both duality, and the natural alternating cyclic nature of most every aspect of our environment and lives. Why assume this one thing to be an exception when there is nothing to support it that I can see?
I think we both agree on rebirth, but we may quibble over the (meaningless) details - whether this duality includes fortune and loss, ups and downs, etc, which may be the mind necessitating a meaningful (to mind) logic which may not prevail in the much larger scheme of rebirth. But we all enjoy the mental exercise these theories provoke or else we wouldn't have theories at all... mind food, if you will, nourishing and tasty while indulging but if not careful, indigestion or heartburn of the mind may follow. And if not, surely all that mind food ultimately runs its course through the bowels of thought and returns to the ethers... perhaps it's own rebirth, eh?
NS: "I give no truck to Big Bangs, nor to creator gods; all stuff for ‘believers.’"
Again, mind games necessary for mind to do what it does best... something as important or not as a game of scrabble or monopoly for the hu'man in us.
NS: Not ‘apparent’ to moi. But then, I came into the theatre after the film had already started, in 1946. So, I’ll have to take your word for how, or if, it began.
Nice! Brought me a smile that lit up the dark corners of my mouth still savoring the taste of fresh bread...
NS: Hindu cosmology has the universe in constant pulsation, which has this present physical universe as no more than one heart beat in an infinite series that never begins, nor ends. That too is older than I am, so, I would have to take such things on faith; were I one capable of faith, which I am not.
I agree with them ancients on this, N(ot)S(ure)... since any other theory has leaks in them regarding this present physical universe and the leaks make for a slippery surface to call a sound foundation... IMHO, of course. This is one of those rare 'faiths' I indulge in... the universe may indeed have had a Big Bang but if that is fact, there will someday be evidence that this B-B was one of several and unending B-B's.
NS: ... Eckhart and John are considered to be preeminent mystics, these quotes are Not to be taken on faith at all. Rather, one must take a mystic much as you’d take the words of a master plumber.
I could easily differ on this master plumber analogy, you know..? Afterall what our plumbers do is physically proveable, unlike the mystic who only has words to substantiate what they have experienced, yes? Not that the furnished quotes you provided are crap... not at all! But I feel they are more believable to those that have had the same experiences rather than those who are clueless about such matters of the mind and beyond. This is akin to the story of the frog who was born and raised his entire life in a well. When another frog came into the well and told the well-dweller about the outside world, the poor fellow thought the visitor to be mad... there is nothing outside this world of the well-dweller.
NS: A true mystic does not ‘do’ faith/belief.
They may not 'do' faith/belief regarding having faith or believing in things and stuff blindlessly, but once they know, the know the knowing results in their own faith and belief.
NS: Eckhart is not speaking of a theistic god, and is as much of an atheist as I am, and have always been. Eckhart is not saying anything essentially different from the mystics found in: Hindusim, Sufism, Buddhism, Hasidism, Sikhism, Taoism, and among many western philosophers.
I am in agreement with your last part - that all mystics are first and foremost mystics, It's the other names which they may still carry with them, but being mystics they are well-aware these other labels are exactly that... labels insufficient to express the fullness of the chosen word, mystic. Even the 'title' philosopher cannot fully contain all that the mystic has become.
But allow me, amigo, to bring up something you posted that I'd like your thoughts on...
Eckhart is not speaking of a theistic god, and is as much of an atheist as I am...
and -
Eckhart (who is Christianity’s greatest mystic)
Do these two lines seem opposed to each other to you as they do to me? Can it be 'true' that Eckhart is both an atheist and a Christian?
NS: ... how many live that realization of being a pure (of all else) Spirit, and not a human, every minute of the day? The few who do, not only have the Father within, but also “the ‘love’ of the Father.”
Re: 1st sentence- this is too dismissive towards our treasured hu'manity, my friend. Who is this entity I am communicating with if it is not thru the very necessary hu'man, NS, that contains within the Light. For without this vessel, would the Light be ever known? Arguably (of course!) Spirit 'requires' body in order to both sustain and allow Spirit become known as the 'Father' within, as you named 'it.' Why does NS take such care of his health, his body, if it held no importance...other than a cardboard shack for the Light to reside? Is not our body equally important as Spirit as long as we are born into hu'manity upon this world we have named Earth? I submit the physical, the mental and the spiritual are the Wholly Trinity.
I'm sure we're in agreement with the importance, the divinity of the Light within all life which is without beginning and without end... Alpha and Omega. Our physicality, our body does not remain as it is, as we well know, but upon it's fulfillment as the vessel for carrying the Light within. This physical body goes thru the infinite process of change as each molecular particle becomes rearranged in an eternal orchestration conducted by the mystical forces of Nature in a continuing OM... the song of the Universe praising the 'Father'...
(hmmm... should i have one more slice of that bread..? sounds so good after this workout i've gone thru... hmmmm... and a fresh cuppa joe... i just may do that. a salute to NS for his wonderful recipe...)
_________________________________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Allow not destiny to intrude upon Now
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Allow not destiny to intrude upon Now
-
Non Sum
Gut morgan, Herr Mynd,
Good grief! An internet blog, and picture too, of your miscarried baked masterpiece. You poor, put upon, fellow.
And yet, you are so good as to ‘thank’ me? I should have thought you’d be cursing me by now, as the author of your shame. I’m truly sorry, mein freund.
Let me offer my own breaded analysis on where you may have gone wrong, since I’ve been baking these suckers for 30 years in all sorts of pans. In 2 words: too wet! You should also not exceed 2-3 cups worth of total fruit. Some fruits/vegs hold a lot of liquid (e.g. pineapple, berries), and when you begin to mix, they will add some to the general wetness. If you dare try for a sequel, add your water/liquid milk last of all, even after the oil, egg(s), and whatever else is damp, ‘very’ sparingly so that you are glad you possess both a strong arm and strong mixing spoon, as this is ‘bread,’ not a cake. Far better to err on too dry (yet still well blended), then too wet, as you have just learned all too well. It should scrape from the bowl into the baking pan much like mashed potatoes would (though, why you‘d bake ‘mashed potatoes‘ is beyond me).
BTW, what is “agave necter”? The original recipe I stole/modified from the ‘Tasajara Bread Book,’ by Edward Espe Brown. Shambala, Berkeley, 1970. It is copy written “by the Chief Priest, Zen Center, San Francisco.” They use honey, but I couldn’t afford it at my production rate. The book has lots of good bread recipes, you may want to see if it is still available. Try the waffles/pancakes recipe I mentioned. It doesn’t have any sugar in it, and wet is not a problem with batter.
MT: But we all enjoy the mental exercise these theories provoke or else we wouldn't have theories at all... mind food, if you will, nourishing and tasty while indulging but if not careful, indigestion or heartburn of the mind may follow. And if not, surely all that mind food ultimately runs its course through the bowels of thought and returns to the ethers... perhaps it's own rebirth, eh?
”Scripture says: "Before the creation of the world, I am." This is
for wise people a matter of knowledge and for ignorant people a
matter for belief.” (Eckhart)
NS: Your metaphors may be a bit half baked, but we agree on their purport well enough. I just go further (risking maximal heartburn) than your more moderate, harmonious appetite in what I consider to be mere “mind food.” I.e. all that is either perceived, or conceived; which includes the person that is actively perceiving and conceiving.
MT: Again, mind games necessary for mind to do what it does best... something as important or not as a game of scrabble or monopoly for the hu'man in us.
NS: What you say here describes what I consider to be the actual origin of the universe, i.e mind dreaming.
”Brahman--is real. The universe is not real. ("Real": That which neither changes nor ceases to exist.)” (Shankara)
MT: the universe may indeed have had a Big Bang but if that is fact, there will someday be evidence that this B-B was one of several and unending B-B's.
NS: Known as ‘the day, and the night, of Brahman.’ They are assumed to be equally as long, only ‘the night of Brahman’ contains neither time nor space. So, how long the night lasts would be the blink of an eye, unless Brahman is an insomniac.
MT: After all what our plumbers do is physically proveable, unlike the mystic who only has words to substantiate what they have experienced, yes?
NS: Actually, no. That was my very point, that mysticism, like any ‘ism’ has its concepts, But, unlike any ‘ism,’ mysticism always bases itself upon the personal ‘experience’ of each individual. There is no reason, nor necessity, for ‘belief’ in mysticism. It is always as Lin Chi famously demands: “Look, look!”
MT: I feel they are more believable to those that have had the same experiences rather than those who are clueless about such matters of the mind and beyond.
NS: If one refuses to ‘look,’ and only accepts what the mind reveals, then “clueless-ness” necessarily follows.
MT: but once they know, the know the knowing results in their own faith and belief.
NS: Not if you are using the dictionary’s definition of ‘belief,’ which only operates when knowledge is absent, no?
MT (quoting): “Eckhart is not speaking of a theistic god, and is as much of an atheist as I am... “
and -
“Eckhart (who is Christianity’s greatest mystic) “
Do these two lines seem opposed to each other to you as they do to me? Can it be 'true' that Eckhart is both an atheist and a Christian?
”The highest act of renunciation for man is for God’s sake to give up God, and that is what St Paul was willing to do. God still remained with him, since God’s essence is Himself, not any impression or reception of Himself. The highest act of renunciation for man is for God's sake to give up God.” (Eckhart)
NS: “Believers” have concepts, and mental/physical images, of a deity other than themselves. ‘Theism,’ is defined as a belief in a creator, ruler, supreme being. But, mysticism has an ‘Absolute’ that admits to nothing other than Itself. So, who is superior to what inferior? Who created whom? Who rules what other? As one Sufi said, “What, …am I to worship myself?”
”Know there is none besides Me. I am Lord, and there is no other.” (Isa 45:6) is taken one way by a believer, who thinks that ‘other’ means ‘other gods,’ but mystics of every religion say, and see, it as appropriate to the definition of “Absolute.” Eckhart, like most mystics, was to be excommunicated, but he died first. His writings are still proscribed by the RC church.
MT: Who is this entity I am communicating with if it is not thru the very necessary hu'man, NS, that contains within the Light.
NS: If tonight you dream that we meet, and speak together, you may well be asking me this same question. If dream Non Sum (‘I am not’) answered you that he knew himself to be only a dream in your mind, and Not Somebody real. Your dream Cecil would probably laugh at his foolishness. Until, that is, Soozen kicked you out of bed for laughing in your sleep, and waking her from her pool-boy dream. The mind can be quite the trickster for those who place their entire faith in what it tells them. Each morning they awaken to see just how well it lies, and yet fall victim to it again and again; never taking a lesson from any of it. There is a reason that ‘Buddha’ translates as “the awakened.”
MT: Why does NS take such care of his health, his body, if it held no importance.
NS: Because that is how that dream character is constructed. Why does Hamlet seek revenge, if he isn’t real? To awaken ‘within’ a dream does not mean that the dream takes a new turn of events. It means that the dream continues as before, but now you know yourself to be other than the thinking acting self that surrounds you.
MT: Is not our body equally important as Spirit as long as we are born into hu'manity upon this world we have named Earth?
NS: How important is the mirage of a lake on a hot thirsty day? It has no relevance, no connection with ‘reality.’ Spirit only knows Itself, and the mind only knows what it contains. The Advaitists describe it as: ‘a post seen in the dark, and being mistaken for a man.’ The ‘post’ stands for ‘Reality-Brahman,’ and the imagined ‘man’ for the entire universe. If after discovering that the post was never an actual man, how would you respond to someone asking about the ‘important’ welfare of that ‘man’? “Brahman alone is, nothing else is.” (Upanishads)
”In every way, then, it is clear that everything which is there for me in the world of things is on grounds of principle ‘only a presumptive reality’; that ‘I myself,’ on the contrary, for whom it is there am ‘absolute’ Reality, given through a positing that is unconditioned and simply indissoluble.” (Edmund Husserl, phenomenologist)
MT: I submit the physical, the mental and the spiritual are the Wholly Trinity.
NS: I’ve no problem with your well considered submission, my friend. I only submit the mystical perspective for your consideration (as Rod Serling) might say). No need for mystical evangelists, when there are only dream people to ‘dream save’ from within in a dream. So, why not go row your boat “merrily, merrily, (since) life is but a dream.”
Good grief! An internet blog, and picture too, of your miscarried baked masterpiece. You poor, put upon, fellow.
And yet, you are so good as to ‘thank’ me? I should have thought you’d be cursing me by now, as the author of your shame. I’m truly sorry, mein freund.Let me offer my own breaded analysis on where you may have gone wrong, since I’ve been baking these suckers for 30 years in all sorts of pans. In 2 words: too wet! You should also not exceed 2-3 cups worth of total fruit. Some fruits/vegs hold a lot of liquid (e.g. pineapple, berries), and when you begin to mix, they will add some to the general wetness. If you dare try for a sequel, add your water/liquid milk last of all, even after the oil, egg(s), and whatever else is damp, ‘very’ sparingly so that you are glad you possess both a strong arm and strong mixing spoon, as this is ‘bread,’ not a cake. Far better to err on too dry (yet still well blended), then too wet, as you have just learned all too well. It should scrape from the bowl into the baking pan much like mashed potatoes would (though, why you‘d bake ‘mashed potatoes‘ is beyond me).
BTW, what is “agave necter”? The original recipe I stole/modified from the ‘Tasajara Bread Book,’ by Edward Espe Brown. Shambala, Berkeley, 1970. It is copy written “by the Chief Priest, Zen Center, San Francisco.” They use honey, but I couldn’t afford it at my production rate. The book has lots of good bread recipes, you may want to see if it is still available. Try the waffles/pancakes recipe I mentioned. It doesn’t have any sugar in it, and wet is not a problem with batter.
MT: But we all enjoy the mental exercise these theories provoke or else we wouldn't have theories at all... mind food, if you will, nourishing and tasty while indulging but if not careful, indigestion or heartburn of the mind may follow. And if not, surely all that mind food ultimately runs its course through the bowels of thought and returns to the ethers... perhaps it's own rebirth, eh?
”Scripture says: "Before the creation of the world, I am." This is
for wise people a matter of knowledge and for ignorant people a
matter for belief.” (Eckhart)
NS:
Your metaphors may be a bit half baked, but we agree on their purport well enough. I just go further (risking maximal heartburn) than your more moderate, harmonious appetite in what I consider to be mere “mind food.” I.e. all that is either perceived, or conceived; which includes the person that is actively perceiving and conceiving.MT: Again, mind games necessary for mind to do what it does best... something as important or not as a game of scrabble or monopoly for the hu'man in us.
NS: What you say here describes what I consider to be the actual origin of the universe, i.e mind dreaming.
”Brahman--is real. The universe is not real. ("Real": That which neither changes nor ceases to exist.)” (Shankara)
MT: the universe may indeed have had a Big Bang but if that is fact, there will someday be evidence that this B-B was one of several and unending B-B's.
NS: Known as ‘the day, and the night, of Brahman.’ They are assumed to be equally as long, only ‘the night of Brahman’ contains neither time nor space. So, how long the night lasts would be the blink of an eye, unless Brahman is an insomniac.
MT: After all what our plumbers do is physically proveable, unlike the mystic who only has words to substantiate what they have experienced, yes?
NS: Actually, no. That was my very point, that mysticism, like any ‘ism’ has its concepts, But, unlike any ‘ism,’ mysticism always bases itself upon the personal ‘experience’ of each individual. There is no reason, nor necessity, for ‘belief’ in mysticism. It is always as Lin Chi famously demands: “Look, look!”
MT: I feel they are more believable to those that have had the same experiences rather than those who are clueless about such matters of the mind and beyond.
NS: If one refuses to ‘look,’ and only accepts what the mind reveals, then “clueless-ness” necessarily follows.
MT: but once they know, the know the knowing results in their own faith and belief.
NS: Not if you are using the dictionary’s definition of ‘belief,’ which only operates when knowledge is absent, no?
MT (quoting): “Eckhart is not speaking of a theistic god, and is as much of an atheist as I am... “
and -
“Eckhart (who is Christianity’s greatest mystic) “
Do these two lines seem opposed to each other to you as they do to me? Can it be 'true' that Eckhart is both an atheist and a Christian?
”The highest act of renunciation for man is for God’s sake to give up God, and that is what St Paul was willing to do. God still remained with him, since God’s essence is Himself, not any impression or reception of Himself. The highest act of renunciation for man is for God's sake to give up God.” (Eckhart)
NS: “Believers” have concepts, and mental/physical images, of a deity other than themselves. ‘Theism,’ is defined as a belief in a creator, ruler, supreme being. But, mysticism has an ‘Absolute’ that admits to nothing other than Itself. So, who is superior to what inferior? Who created whom? Who rules what other? As one Sufi said, “What, …am I to worship myself?”
”Know there is none besides Me. I am Lord, and there is no other.” (Isa 45:6) is taken one way by a believer, who thinks that ‘other’ means ‘other gods,’ but mystics of every religion say, and see, it as appropriate to the definition of “Absolute.” Eckhart, like most mystics, was to be excommunicated, but he died first. His writings are still proscribed by the RC church.
MT: Who is this entity I am communicating with if it is not thru the very necessary hu'man, NS, that contains within the Light.
NS: If tonight you dream that we meet, and speak together, you may well be asking me this same question. If dream Non Sum (‘I am not’) answered you that he knew himself to be only a dream in your mind, and Not Somebody real. Your dream Cecil would probably laugh at his foolishness. Until, that is, Soozen kicked you out of bed for laughing in your sleep, and waking her from her pool-boy dream. The mind can be quite the trickster for those who place their entire faith in what it tells them. Each morning they awaken to see just how well it lies, and yet fall victim to it again and again; never taking a lesson from any of it. There is a reason that ‘Buddha’ translates as “the awakened.”
MT: Why does NS take such care of his health, his body, if it held no importance.
NS: Because that is how that dream character is constructed. Why does Hamlet seek revenge, if he isn’t real? To awaken ‘within’ a dream does not mean that the dream takes a new turn of events. It means that the dream continues as before, but now you know yourself to be other than the thinking acting self that surrounds you.
MT: Is not our body equally important as Spirit as long as we are born into hu'manity upon this world we have named Earth?
NS: How important is the mirage of a lake on a hot thirsty day? It has no relevance, no connection with ‘reality.’ Spirit only knows Itself, and the mind only knows what it contains. The Advaitists describe it as: ‘a post seen in the dark, and being mistaken for a man.’ The ‘post’ stands for ‘Reality-Brahman,’ and the imagined ‘man’ for the entire universe. If after discovering that the post was never an actual man, how would you respond to someone asking about the ‘important’ welfare of that ‘man’? “Brahman alone is, nothing else is.” (Upanishads)
”In every way, then, it is clear that everything which is there for me in the world of things is on grounds of principle ‘only a presumptive reality’; that ‘I myself,’ on the contrary, for whom it is there am ‘absolute’ Reality, given through a positing that is unconditioned and simply indissoluble.” (Edmund Husserl, phenomenologist)
MT: I submit the physical, the mental and the spiritual are the Wholly Trinity.
NS: I’ve no problem with your well considered submission, my friend. I only submit the mystical perspective for your consideration (as Rod Serling) might say). No need for mystical evangelists, when there are only dream people to ‘dream save’ from within in a dream. So, why not go row your boat “merrily, merrily, (since) life is but a dream.”
Buenos dias, mi amigo...
After a reasonably 'clueless' day yesterday, with no commitments or urgencies and no time constraints to deal with, I awakened to face Monday prepared for whatever it had in store for me. So far it is calm and pleasant, SooZen and I having watched an excellent movie, "Julie and Julia" with Merle Streep convincingly playing the part of Julia Childs.
There is but perhaps two slices of the Big Hulk left, having had more that a fair share yesterday. Please be assured the problem with the recipe was my own neglect in using the right size pan, i.e. 9x9 instead of the recommended 9x14. This caused the unevenness of the fully baked center which would have be trouble free, I'm sure, if I had used the correct size.
The agave nectar is an ideal sweetener, but rather pricey, to use when someone you share your baked goods with is troubled by diabetes (type II), as the good nectar is low glycemic and easily substitutable for sugar or honey. I've been using it regularly in my cooking/baking when sugar is called for. Another problem, albeit not major, is living in a high altitude location 3700+). Whenever I bake bread (using a machine) I follow high altitude adjustments which normally will alleviate high rising. and overflowing bread. I will pay heed to the moisture content as that may have added to the 'Hulkness.'
Re:”Scripture says: "Before the creation of the world, I am." This is
for wise people a matter of knowledge and for ignorant people a
matter for belief.” (Eckhart)
Upon reading this quote, (and others you've provided), I googled old Meister Eckhart and was surprised at how far back the man walked upon the earth, 1260 - 1328. It's obvious he had his own awakening at some point in his life. While reading a bit about the man in the Wikipedia link, I came across this quote -
When I wrote: "... mind food, if you will, nourishing and tasty while indulging but if not careful, indigestion or heartburn of the mind may follow. And if not, surely all that mind food ultimately runs its course through the bowels of thought and returns to the ethers..." may not be as half-baked as the whole wheat bread... with a little more baking (contemplation.) the loaf (what was written) will prove to be fulfilling in it's nourishment (understanding).
NS: What you say here describes what I consider to be the actual origin of the universe, i.e mind dreaming.
”Brahman--is real. The universe is not real. ("Real":That which neither changes nor ceases to exist )” (Shankara)
Holy Smokes! All this time I've been using the word 'real(ity)' as that which is tangible... some thing that I can see, touch, smell, taste and/or hear. To me these are what is real. Truth to me has a far deeper meaning... Truth transcends reality, the mundane world of dimensions that is in constant flux. Truth is Absolute... as Shankara says: That which neither changes nor ceases to exist... Pure Consciousness that Knows all and is All... the silence between all words, the ceaseless moment in which Reality is manifested.
I know Meister Eckhart, Siddartha, Jesus and all mystics will forgive my usage of the word, Real, for I know these people, all who have had Cosmic Consciousness, attained Nirvana, ascended into Heaven... all those that preceded me and all those that will follow are as real as the words they left behind and will leave behind for others to be inspired to seek what they have pointed to.
NS: "There is a reason that ‘Buddha’ translates as “the awakened.”
"Tune in, turn on, drop out." - Timothy Leary
I bring this up because not many know that Leary also stated "drop back in"... (Politics of Ecstasy). Yes, Buddha means the awakened... as Christ means the Enlightened... same/same, charlie. My point being, when Siddartha experience his awakening and Jesus experienced his enlightenment and all others who have had the same experience throughout time, eventually had to come down from the peak and return to the valley from whence the came... think Moses coming down after his realization... think of the many, many people who came to listen to Buddha... to Jesus... to Mohammed... if these awakened individuals did not return their words would never have been heard by the multitudes.
NS: "Why does Hamlet seek revenge, if he isn’t real? "
Whoa there, big fellow! Hamlet only seeks revenge against another "not real", eh? I needn't place so much concern on dreams, only when my body seeks rest and relaxation when the dreams once again come on screen, projected by the chattering mind, that never sleeps. How many dreams do I remember upon my awakening? Very few hold importance within the world I currently inhabit, which includes you, my friend.
NS: "No need for mystical evangelists, when there are only dream people to ‘dream save’ from within in a dream. So, why not go row your boat “merrily, merrily, (since) life is but a dream.”"
If life is undoubtedly nothing more than a dream within which we all partake, why would you reckon we all reincarnate over and over within this dream world, learning our lessons as we do, with 'the goal' getting off the wheel of life, this life, this reality in which we are currently involved in, whether it be only our physicality, our mind, or our spirit inhabiting this vessel to it's discretion.
Well, amigo, this is about all I got in me today... gotta clean up and hit the road and get some errands taken care of... and doing such so late in the day (1:48pm) doesn't thrill me (but I enjoyed the movie).
btw: did any of the big snow storm cross over your part of the world? [/i]
After a reasonably 'clueless' day yesterday, with no commitments or urgencies and no time constraints to deal with, I awakened to face Monday prepared for whatever it had in store for me. So far it is calm and pleasant, SooZen and I having watched an excellent movie, "Julie and Julia" with Merle Streep convincingly playing the part of Julia Childs.
There is but perhaps two slices of the Big Hulk left, having had more that a fair share yesterday. Please be assured the problem with the recipe was my own neglect in using the right size pan, i.e. 9x9 instead of the recommended 9x14. This caused the unevenness of the fully baked center which would have be trouble free, I'm sure, if I had used the correct size.
The agave nectar is an ideal sweetener, but rather pricey, to use when someone you share your baked goods with is troubled by diabetes (type II), as the good nectar is low glycemic and easily substitutable for sugar or honey. I've been using it regularly in my cooking/baking when sugar is called for. Another problem, albeit not major, is living in a high altitude location 3700+). Whenever I bake bread (using a machine) I follow high altitude adjustments which normally will alleviate high rising. and overflowing bread. I will pay heed to the moisture content as that may have added to the 'Hulkness.'
Re:”Scripture says: "Before the creation of the world, I am." This is
for wise people a matter of knowledge and for ignorant people a
matter for belief.” (Eckhart)
Upon reading this quote, (and others you've provided), I googled old Meister Eckhart and was surprised at how far back the man walked upon the earth, 1260 - 1328. It's obvious he had his own awakening at some point in his life. While reading a bit about the man in the Wikipedia link, I came across this quote -
If one were to believe in Schopenhauer, they may walk away from this quote thinking the good Meister was far too attached to his Christianity which 'Schop' evidently felt clouded the more important knowledge Eckhart knew.If we turn from the forms, produced by external circumstances, and go to the root of things, we shall find that Sakyamuni and Meister Eckhart teach the same thing; only that the former dared to express his ideas plainly and positively, whereas Eckhart is obliged to clothe them in the garment of the Christian myth, and to adapt his expressions thereto.
– Schopenhauer, The World as Will and Representation, Vol. II, Ch. XLVIII
When I wrote: "... mind food, if you will, nourishing and tasty while indulging but if not careful, indigestion or heartburn of the mind may follow. And if not, surely all that mind food ultimately runs its course through the bowels of thought and returns to the ethers..." may not be as half-baked as the whole wheat bread... with a little more baking (contemplation.) the loaf (what was written) will prove to be fulfilling in it's nourishment (understanding).
NS: What you say here describes what I consider to be the actual origin of the universe, i.e mind dreaming.
”Brahman--is real. The universe is not real. ("Real":That which neither changes nor ceases to exist )” (Shankara)
Holy Smokes! All this time I've been using the word 'real(ity)' as that which is tangible... some thing that I can see, touch, smell, taste and/or hear. To me these are what is real. Truth to me has a far deeper meaning... Truth transcends reality, the mundane world of dimensions that is in constant flux. Truth is Absolute... as Shankara says: That which neither changes nor ceases to exist... Pure Consciousness that Knows all and is All... the silence between all words, the ceaseless moment in which Reality is manifested.
I know Meister Eckhart, Siddartha, Jesus and all mystics will forgive my usage of the word, Real, for I know these people, all who have had Cosmic Consciousness, attained Nirvana, ascended into Heaven... all those that preceded me and all those that will follow are as real as the words they left behind and will leave behind for others to be inspired to seek what they have pointed to.
NS: "There is a reason that ‘Buddha’ translates as “the awakened.”
"Tune in, turn on, drop out." - Timothy Leary
I bring this up because not many know that Leary also stated "drop back in"... (Politics of Ecstasy). Yes, Buddha means the awakened... as Christ means the Enlightened... same/same, charlie.
My point being, when Siddartha experience his awakening and Jesus experienced his enlightenment and all others who have had the same experience throughout time, eventually had to come down from the peak and return to the valley from whence the came... think Moses coming down after his realization... think of the many, many people who came to listen to Buddha... to Jesus... to Mohammed... if these awakened individuals did not return their words would never have been heard by the multitudes.NS: "Why does Hamlet seek revenge, if he isn’t real? "
Whoa there, big fellow!
Hamlet only seeks revenge against another "not real", eh? I needn't place so much concern on dreams, only when my body seeks rest and relaxation when the dreams once again come on screen, projected by the chattering mind, that never sleeps. How many dreams do I remember upon my awakening? Very few hold importance within the world I currently inhabit, which includes you, my friend. NS: "No need for mystical evangelists, when there are only dream people to ‘dream save’ from within in a dream. So, why not go row your boat “merrily, merrily, (since) life is but a dream.”"
If life is undoubtedly nothing more than a dream within which we all partake, why would you reckon we all reincarnate over and over within this dream world, learning our lessons as we do, with 'the goal' getting off the wheel of life, this life, this reality in which we are currently involved in, whether it be only our physicality, our mind, or our spirit inhabiting this vessel to it's discretion.
Well, amigo, this is about all I got in me today... gotta clean up and hit the road and get some errands taken care of... and doing such so late in the day (1:48pm) doesn't thrill me (but I enjoyed the movie).
btw: did any of the big snow storm cross over your part of the world? [/i]
_________________________________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Allow not destiny to intrude upon Now
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Allow not destiny to intrude upon Now
-
Non Sum
Bon jour, mon ami…
MT: SooZen and I having watched an excellent movie, "Julie and Julia" with Merle Streep convincingly playing the part of Julia Childs.
NS: Ms. Streep appears to be up to playing most any person or object “convincingly.” I’ve been avoiding this particular movie on the basis of my lifelong disinclination to watch the original Ms. Child (whom player herself nearly as well as Ms. Streep has), or any cooking shows. Do you attend movie theatres, or view them in your home? We belong to Netflix, and manage to catch a movie just about every day. Caught ‘Taking Pelham 123’ (which was good) yesterday. Though, I’d recommend the previous day’s movie for its ingenious script, it’s called ‘Franklyn.’ With watching so many movies, I’ve come to favor films that are unique and inventive in some way or other.
Does this ‘agave nectar’ have the bitter taste common to all the other sugar substitutes? Sorry to hear of your wife’s diabetic condition. My wife sends away for a sugar substitute called ‘stevia.’ She isn’t diabetic, but suffers from the condition of ‘un-energetic,’ or ‘sendentarius maximus,’ combined with a low metabolism, which keeps her on ‘high calorie alert.’ I’ve had the opposite condition most of my life, being overly energized like some demented Energized Bunny, and so have to be wary of too minimal a caloric intake. I do, though, avoid high fat content foods.
Our general nutritional, and tasteful, solution is for each to cook and bake for themselves about 90% of the time. This works out quite well for us, and may be worth your and Soozen’s consideration.
MT: Upon reading this quote, (and others you've provided), I googled old Meister Eckhart and was surprised at how far back the man walked upon the earth, 1260 - 1328.
NS: Yeah, he’s an oldie, but a goodie. He shared a common teacher (Albertus Maximus, i.e. Bishop Albert) with St. Thomas Aquinas. Albert was a good mystic as well, and as much the hard determinist as I:
”Divine providence extends to everything, in general and in particular, even including a man’s thoughts.”
MT: 'Schop' evidently felt clouded the more important knowledge Eckhart knew.
NS: He’d be wrong, in my never humble opinion. Eckhart says it all, and very well; often (rightly) dubbed “the Christian Advaitist.”
The Protestants, Jacob Boehme and William Law, are also a couple of my favorite Christian mystics. I had to come around slowly to Christian mysticism, due to their off-putting (to an atheist and anti-Xian) terminology. But, I came to realize, after grasping their unique term usage, that Christian mysticism has some of the finest writers to be had in mystical thought.
Schopenhauer is right about Christian and Islamic mystics needing to “clothe” their ideas. The prospect of inquisitional torture and execution can have that effect. Jesus himself serves as a fine example of how the Absolute gets treated in the West. Personally, I consider it finite stupidity to make one’s self an easy target to the sadistic and benightedly religious. Obviously, I prefer the position of a ‘prakteyeka.’
MT: When I wrote: "... mind food, if you will, nourishing and tasty while indulging but if not careful, indigestion or heartburn of the mind may follow. And if not, surely all that mind food ultimately runs its course through the bowels of thought and returns to the ethers..." may not be as half-baked as the whole wheat bread.
NS: I intended no insult, but meant only to play within your metaphor, while opining a preferred indifference concerning things cerebral. Why be “care full” of the thoughts held by a man who was never more than a mistaken post seen in the dark? Take a mind seriously, and next you’ll take it as something to do with you.
MT: Truth to me has a far deeper meaning... Truth transcends reality, the mundane world of dimensions that is in constant flux. Truth is Absolute.
NS: Like Eckhart and his “God, and Godhead,” one must be on alert to how the term is being used. I favor the convention of capitalizing words, such as: real, truth, self, god, enlightenment, consciousness, etc., in order to elevate them when referencing Absolutes.
MT: all those that preceded me and all those that will follow are as real as the words they left behind and will leave behind for others to be inspired to seek what they have pointed to.
NS: I agree, so long as you use the small ‘r.’ They are all ‘relatively’ real, I.e. relative to you as MT. Just as the people in your dreams are also ‘real’ relative to you appearing as your dreamt self. But, if you mentally assume an Absolute perspective, then what is perceived must become relatively/comparatively unreal, no?
MT: if these awakened individuals did not return their words would never have been heard by the multitudes.
NS: The “Mountain” is not physical; they, as individuals, never physically left. So, how can they “return” to be heard? One may shout and preach all night long in a dream, and not awaken with a sore throat. “One understands that the external world has nothing to do with one’s Real Self.” (Fa-yung) Let Chan Master Hung chih, and his stick, explain:
”When one stays in the center of the market and is ready to engage
in all kinds of work at any time, he is entitled to receive thirty
blows, because he neglects the cultivation of Li, or reality, or
non-action.
When one stays on top of the solitary peak and gazes at the sky, he
may swallow all the Buddhas, past, present and future, in one gulp,
but he will neglect all sentient beings. He should also be given
thirty blows because he neglects action.
One who is in the center of the market engaged in all kinds of
work, and yet he stays on top of the solitary peak, gazing at the
sky. If these two men come to me, I will have nothing to offer
Them.”
“Staying on the solitary peak,” is not Realized, but only mind deluding itself. When you clearly Realize your True Self, you must also realize that what your finite self does is not ‘your’ doing, and never was.
MT: Whoa there, big fellow! Hamlet only seeks revenge against another "not real", eh?
NS: (Ah, another Lone Ranger fan!) Exactly! The not real dealing with the not real within non-reality, e.g. NS & MT.
MT: why would you reckon we all reincarnate over and over within this dream world, learning our lessons as we do, with 'the goal' getting off the wheel of life, this life, this reality in which we are currently involved in, whether it be only our physicality, our mind, or our spirit inhabiting this vessel to it's discretion.
NS: Minds dream in a series of dreams; six on average per night, I am told by NOVA. In each, the worlds and the perceived individual self change, but our Self never changes throughout a lifetime of dreams within dreams. It isn’t the Self that incarnates, but the omnipresent Self-consciousness which underlies all mental apparitions, much like the one same post seen in the dark, and yet appearing to be one thing, and then another. There is nothing to “learn,” but much to forget.
”People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion.” (Albert Einstein, illusory physicist)
MT: SooZen and I having watched an excellent movie, "Julie and Julia" with Merle Streep convincingly playing the part of Julia Childs.
NS: Ms. Streep appears to be up to playing most any person or object “convincingly.” I’ve been avoiding this particular movie on the basis of my lifelong disinclination to watch the original Ms. Child (whom player herself nearly as well as Ms. Streep has), or any cooking shows. Do you attend movie theatres, or view them in your home? We belong to Netflix, and manage to catch a movie just about every day. Caught ‘Taking Pelham 123’ (which was good) yesterday. Though, I’d recommend the previous day’s movie for its ingenious script, it’s called ‘Franklyn.’ With watching so many movies, I’ve come to favor films that are unique and inventive in some way or other.
Does this ‘agave nectar’ have the bitter taste common to all the other sugar substitutes? Sorry to hear of your wife’s diabetic condition. My wife sends away for a sugar substitute called ‘stevia.’ She isn’t diabetic, but suffers from the condition of ‘un-energetic,’ or ‘sendentarius maximus,’ combined with a low metabolism, which keeps her on ‘high calorie alert.’ I’ve had the opposite condition most of my life, being overly energized like some demented Energized Bunny, and so have to be wary of too minimal a caloric intake. I do, though, avoid high fat content foods.
Our general nutritional, and tasteful, solution is for each to cook and bake for themselves about 90% of the time. This works out quite well for us, and may be worth your and Soozen’s consideration.
MT: Upon reading this quote, (and others you've provided), I googled old Meister Eckhart and was surprised at how far back the man walked upon the earth, 1260 - 1328.
NS: Yeah, he’s an oldie, but a goodie. He shared a common teacher (Albertus Maximus, i.e. Bishop Albert) with St. Thomas Aquinas. Albert was a good mystic as well, and as much the hard determinist as I:
”Divine providence extends to everything, in general and in particular, even including a man’s thoughts.”
MT: 'Schop' evidently felt clouded the more important knowledge Eckhart knew.
NS: He’d be wrong, in my never humble opinion. Eckhart says it all, and very well; often (rightly) dubbed “the Christian Advaitist.”
The Protestants, Jacob Boehme and William Law, are also a couple of my favorite Christian mystics. I had to come around slowly to Christian mysticism, due to their off-putting (to an atheist and anti-Xian) terminology. But, I came to realize, after grasping their unique term usage, that Christian mysticism has some of the finest writers to be had in mystical thought.
Schopenhauer is right about Christian and Islamic mystics needing to “clothe” their ideas. The prospect of inquisitional torture and execution can have that effect. Jesus himself serves as a fine example of how the Absolute gets treated in the West. Personally, I consider it finite stupidity to make one’s self an easy target to the sadistic and benightedly religious. Obviously, I prefer the position of a ‘prakteyeka.’
MT: When I wrote: "... mind food, if you will, nourishing and tasty while indulging but if not careful, indigestion or heartburn of the mind may follow. And if not, surely all that mind food ultimately runs its course through the bowels of thought and returns to the ethers..." may not be as half-baked as the whole wheat bread.
NS: I intended no insult, but meant only to play within your metaphor, while opining a preferred indifference concerning things cerebral. Why be “care full” of the thoughts held by a man who was never more than a mistaken post seen in the dark? Take a mind seriously, and next you’ll take it as something to do with you.
MT: Truth to me has a far deeper meaning... Truth transcends reality, the mundane world of dimensions that is in constant flux. Truth is Absolute.
NS: Like Eckhart and his “God, and Godhead,” one must be on alert to how the term is being used. I favor the convention of capitalizing words, such as: real, truth, self, god, enlightenment, consciousness, etc., in order to elevate them when referencing Absolutes.
MT: all those that preceded me and all those that will follow are as real as the words they left behind and will leave behind for others to be inspired to seek what they have pointed to.
NS: I agree, so long as you use the small ‘r.’ They are all ‘relatively’ real, I.e. relative to you as MT. Just as the people in your dreams are also ‘real’ relative to you appearing as your dreamt self. But, if you mentally assume an Absolute perspective, then what is perceived must become relatively/comparatively unreal, no?
MT: if these awakened individuals did not return their words would never have been heard by the multitudes.
NS: The “Mountain” is not physical; they, as individuals, never physically left. So, how can they “return” to be heard? One may shout and preach all night long in a dream, and not awaken with a sore throat. “One understands that the external world has nothing to do with one’s Real Self.” (Fa-yung) Let Chan Master Hung chih, and his stick, explain:
”When one stays in the center of the market and is ready to engage
in all kinds of work at any time, he is entitled to receive thirty
blows, because he neglects the cultivation of Li, or reality, or
non-action.
When one stays on top of the solitary peak and gazes at the sky, he
may swallow all the Buddhas, past, present and future, in one gulp,
but he will neglect all sentient beings. He should also be given
thirty blows because he neglects action.
One who is in the center of the market engaged in all kinds of
work, and yet he stays on top of the solitary peak, gazing at the
sky. If these two men come to me, I will have nothing to offer
Them.”
“Staying on the solitary peak,” is not Realized, but only mind deluding itself. When you clearly Realize your True Self, you must also realize that what your finite self does is not ‘your’ doing, and never was.
MT: Whoa there, big fellow! Hamlet only seeks revenge against another "not real", eh?
NS:
(Ah, another Lone Ranger fan!) Exactly! The not real dealing with the not real within non-reality, e.g. NS & MT.MT: why would you reckon we all reincarnate over and over within this dream world, learning our lessons as we do, with 'the goal' getting off the wheel of life, this life, this reality in which we are currently involved in, whether it be only our physicality, our mind, or our spirit inhabiting this vessel to it's discretion.
NS: Minds dream in a series of dreams; six on average per night, I am told by NOVA. In each, the worlds and the perceived individual self change, but our Self never changes throughout a lifetime of dreams within dreams. It isn’t the Self that incarnates, but the omnipresent Self-consciousness which underlies all mental apparitions, much like the one same post seen in the dark, and yet appearing to be one thing, and then another. There is nothing to “learn,” but much to forget.
”People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion.” (Albert Einstein, illusory physicist)
Hola, Sr. Sum...
NS: "Do you attend movie theatres, or view them in your home? We belong to Netflix, and manage to catch a movie just about every day."
Good grief, mahn... everyday you luxuriate before the alter of theatre..? We barely spare the time to watch one movie per month, if we're lucky. And as far as going to the theatre... hardly ever. Both of us prefer to control the movie so we can excuse ourselves as we deem necessary without missing what may prove to be a key moment within the movie. We do have one more to view... Public Enemies, a Johnny Depp flick you most likely either have seen or know about. We enjoy Mr Depp's acting and hope to continue this enjoyment with P.E., providing time allows us the opportunity before the movie needs to be returned. Wish us luck, N(on)S(top).
btw: re: cooking shows. the food channel is one of my favorite places to spend time observing some of the finest chef's in the country perform their culinary artistry.
NS: "I’d recommend the previous day’s movie for its ingenious script, it’s called ‘Franklyn.’ With watching so many movies, I’ve come to favor films that are unique and inventive in some way or other."
I may invest some time hunting down this movie recommendation of yours, my friend. I (we) too, enjoy the unique and inventive.
NS: "Does this ‘agave nectar’ have the bitter taste common to all the other sugar substitutes?"
Not at all, N(aturally)S(keptical)... it is absolutely delectable and reminds me of when I suckled the breast of an angel..! It was from that memorable experience that made me the individual that I am and I shall be forever grateful for having access to this "nectar of the angels."
NS: "My wife sends away for a sugar substitute called ‘stevia.’"
We know it well. SooZen seldom leaves the house without a small supply of stevia tucked away in the mysterious darkness of her purse which she is able to retrieve, I'm sure, in pitch black darkness when necessary, so familiar with every nook and cranny of her carefully stored needs she is. (I used a packet this p.m. at the Indian Palace where we treated ourselves, not to a movie, but to a nicely stocked.) buffet of (east) Indian cuisine)
”Divine providence extends to everything, in general and in particular, even including a man’s thoughts.”
Good Gawd... there is no escaping this presence! No matter my whereabouts this God-thing is there making sure my individuality is but a dream within which this God also lives. Should I embrace the notoriously wicked Beelzebub, I will without doubt be embracing God itself, so omnipresent this presence is. Why should I be or attempt to be anything whilst I spend my limited moments upon this plane when ultimately all belongs to Allah? I ask myself if this Pure Consciousness is in reality nothing more nor less than the Ego of All Ego which enjoys itself in a narcissistic fashion that even prohibits It's progeny the same privilege? What sees in their eyes, these men such as you quote who paint their visions of their God as to make themselves but momentary shells in which to contain their God(s) and give them hu'man qualities and meanings? Even should I revoke and refute such ideals of what these men see as God (should be?), judging by their words I make little difference... as little old me is but one more life form with multitudes scattered throughout the universe and beyond, whose vision of the Absolute pales in comparison to the so-called Reality of that which has been described and labeled as God Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth. Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa! Forgive me Father for I have sinned! This ego within me has disallowed that which has created ALL. A Divine Mystery which may take a Saint Sherlock to solve, with crooked pipe in hand filled to the brim with ideas and thoughts, hints and possibilities to unravel the shroud that covers Truth.
But in the meantime, I shall simply be that which reflects the quiet, calm and knowing Self within... bliss shall be mine while others rush to solve mysteries larger than themselves only to bypass their Self-Knowing as being irrelevant to the so-called Greater Good which dwarfs their very ability to ever comprehend satisfactorily.
(Thank you, 'N(piration) S(urpassed) or maybe the good Bishop, for the key to opening up those words to flow as gracefully as a glacier melt on a cloudless spring day)
NS: "... I came to realize, after grasping their unique term usage, that Christian mysticism has some of the finest writers to be had in mystical thought."
I'l take you at your word, my friend. Seeking out and reading the writings of these folks you speak of is not something I am predisposed to do, although I certainly respect and have a genteel respect for those that do.
NS: "... I prefer the position of a ‘prakteyeka.’"
Would this be the same as "A Pratyekabuddha (Sanskrit) or Paccekabuddha (Pāli), literally "a lone buddha" , "a buddha on their own" or "a private buddha" - Wikipedia. If it is, I can understand that. For many a year, I have on and off used the moniker "Astral Hobo" to describe myself... one who travels alone seeking journeys in an effort to expand knowing as best I could/can, finding solace in the mystic.
NS: "Take a mind seriously, and next you’ll take it as something to do with you."
Well stated! As one who has caught himself taking seriousness too seriously, I 'counter-attack' with laughter, finding that to be my leveler. How many times I have I heard "it's not all about you.." not necessarily directed at me but others within a group or in differing situations one may come in contact with ? It can be a sobering revelation when one is not aware of it.
NS: "The “Mountain” is not physical; they, as individuals, never physically left. So, how can they “return” to be heard?"
Yes and no, IMHO... True, as individuals, they never left. But one can become so Spiritually moved as to appear to not be within the realm of those that know 'him' as not being himself... what he was before he became enlightened... awakened. His peers are still asleep and do not recognize him/her anymore from what was.
It is not unlikely that given this scenario, to return, like Moses returned with knowledge, the newly awakened may or may not return to speak of their Realization.
“One understands that the external world has nothing to do with one’s Real Self.”
Conversely, one understands that one's Real Self has nothing to do with the external world... the world from which he entered the inner world where Real Self resides.
”People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion.” (Albert Einstein, illusory physicist)
True, but... and we all should love a "true, but" to keep us honest. Even tho I do agree with old Albert, I would feel obliged to offer: "This past, present and future you speak of is our only way of explaining the affects of time and it's movement. As illusory as this may be, it is only as illusory as the mind that conceives it. The universe of 100 million years in the past was far different from the universe we know of today.
But knowing my friend, N(ever)S(urrender), you will come up with a brilliant quotation that will make my statement seem as far out of place as a Tibetan Monk at the Grand Ole Opry... I'm prepared, amigo, as always.
Until then... I must feed my restless two dogs who have come to expect their chow around this time. I will be their happy and willing servant and make sure that I will also give the 2, sometimes 3, neighbor dogs their little biscuit that I give them after feeding my own boys.
Take care, N(orthern)S(eeker) and do what you do best this evening.
NS: "Do you attend movie theatres, or view them in your home? We belong to Netflix, and manage to catch a movie just about every day."
Good grief, mahn... everyday you luxuriate before the alter of theatre..? We barely spare the time to watch one movie per month, if we're lucky. And as far as going to the theatre... hardly ever. Both of us prefer to control the movie so we can excuse ourselves as we deem necessary without missing what may prove to be a key moment within the movie. We do have one more to view... Public Enemies, a Johnny Depp flick you most likely either have seen or know about. We enjoy Mr Depp's acting and hope to continue this enjoyment with P.E., providing time allows us the opportunity before the movie needs to be returned. Wish us luck, N(on)S(top).
btw: re: cooking shows. the food channel is one of my favorite places to spend time observing some of the finest chef's in the country perform their culinary artistry.
NS: "I’d recommend the previous day’s movie for its ingenious script, it’s called ‘Franklyn.’ With watching so many movies, I’ve come to favor films that are unique and inventive in some way or other."
I may invest some time hunting down this movie recommendation of yours, my friend. I (we) too, enjoy the unique and inventive.
NS: "Does this ‘agave nectar’ have the bitter taste common to all the other sugar substitutes?"
Not at all, N(aturally)S(keptical)... it is absolutely delectable and reminds me of when I suckled the breast of an angel..! It was from that memorable experience that made me the individual that I am and I shall be forever grateful for having access to this "nectar of the angels."
NS: "My wife sends away for a sugar substitute called ‘stevia.’"
We know it well. SooZen seldom leaves the house without a small supply of stevia tucked away in the mysterious darkness of her purse which she is able to retrieve, I'm sure, in pitch black darkness when necessary, so familiar with every nook and cranny of her carefully stored needs she is. (I used a packet this p.m. at the Indian Palace where we treated ourselves, not to a movie, but to a nicely stocked.) buffet of (east) Indian cuisine)
”Divine providence extends to everything, in general and in particular, even including a man’s thoughts.”
Good Gawd... there is no escaping this presence! No matter my whereabouts this God-thing is there making sure my individuality is but a dream within which this God also lives. Should I embrace the notoriously wicked Beelzebub, I will without doubt be embracing God itself, so omnipresent this presence is. Why should I be or attempt to be anything whilst I spend my limited moments upon this plane when ultimately all belongs to Allah? I ask myself if this Pure Consciousness is in reality nothing more nor less than the Ego of All Ego which enjoys itself in a narcissistic fashion that even prohibits It's progeny the same privilege? What sees in their eyes, these men such as you quote who paint their visions of their God as to make themselves but momentary shells in which to contain their God(s) and give them hu'man qualities and meanings? Even should I revoke and refute such ideals of what these men see as God (should be?), judging by their words I make little difference... as little old me is but one more life form with multitudes scattered throughout the universe and beyond, whose vision of the Absolute pales in comparison to the so-called Reality of that which has been described and labeled as God Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth. Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa! Forgive me Father for I have sinned! This ego within me has disallowed that which has created ALL. A Divine Mystery which may take a Saint Sherlock to solve, with crooked pipe in hand filled to the brim with ideas and thoughts, hints and possibilities to unravel the shroud that covers Truth.
But in the meantime, I shall simply be that which reflects the quiet, calm and knowing Self within... bliss shall be mine while others rush to solve mysteries larger than themselves only to bypass their Self-Knowing as being irrelevant to the so-called Greater Good which dwarfs their very ability to ever comprehend satisfactorily.
(Thank you, 'N(piration) S(urpassed) or maybe the good Bishop, for the key to opening up those words to flow as gracefully as a glacier melt on a cloudless spring day)
NS: "... I came to realize, after grasping their unique term usage, that Christian mysticism has some of the finest writers to be had in mystical thought."
I'l take you at your word, my friend. Seeking out and reading the writings of these folks you speak of is not something I am predisposed to do, although I certainly respect and have a genteel respect for those that do.
NS: "... I prefer the position of a ‘prakteyeka.’"
Would this be the same as "A Pratyekabuddha (Sanskrit) or Paccekabuddha (Pāli), literally "a lone buddha" , "a buddha on their own" or "a private buddha" - Wikipedia. If it is, I can understand that. For many a year, I have on and off used the moniker "Astral Hobo" to describe myself... one who travels alone seeking journeys in an effort to expand knowing as best I could/can, finding solace in the mystic.
NS: "Take a mind seriously, and next you’ll take it as something to do with you."
Well stated! As one who has caught himself taking seriousness too seriously, I 'counter-attack' with laughter, finding that to be my leveler. How many times I have I heard "it's not all about you.." not necessarily directed at me but others within a group or in differing situations one may come in contact with ? It can be a sobering revelation when one is not aware of it.
NS: "The “Mountain” is not physical; they, as individuals, never physically left. So, how can they “return” to be heard?"
Yes and no, IMHO... True, as individuals, they never left. But one can become so Spiritually moved as to appear to not be within the realm of those that know 'him' as not being himself... what he was before he became enlightened... awakened. His peers are still asleep and do not recognize him/her anymore from what was.
It is not unlikely that given this scenario, to return, like Moses returned with knowledge, the newly awakened may or may not return to speak of their Realization.
“One understands that the external world has nothing to do with one’s Real Self.”
Conversely, one understands that one's Real Self has nothing to do with the external world... the world from which he entered the inner world where Real Self resides.
”People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion.” (Albert Einstein, illusory physicist)
True, but... and we all should love a "true, but" to keep us honest. Even tho I do agree with old Albert, I would feel obliged to offer: "This past, present and future you speak of is our only way of explaining the affects of time and it's movement. As illusory as this may be, it is only as illusory as the mind that conceives it. The universe of 100 million years in the past was far different from the universe we know of today.
But knowing my friend, N(ever)S(urrender), you will come up with a brilliant quotation that will make my statement seem as far out of place as a Tibetan Monk at the Grand Ole Opry...
I'm prepared, amigo, as always.Until then... I must feed my restless two dogs who have come to expect their chow around this time. I will be their happy and willing servant and make sure that I will also give the 2, sometimes 3, neighbor dogs their little biscuit that I give them after feeding my own boys.
Take care, N(orthern)S(eeker) and do what you do best this evening.
_________________________________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Allow not destiny to intrude upon Now
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Allow not destiny to intrude upon Now
-
Non Sum
Greetings, on this eve’s eve, Sir Mynd,
MT: Good grief, mahn... everyday you luxuriate before the alter of theatre..?
NS: For we hedonists, it is mandatory movies all of the time. Didn’t mean to shock you with my excessive decadence.
MT: We barely spare the time to watch one movie per month,
NS: Ah yes, so it must ever be for the laboring masses; a pity, and all that sympathetic rot.
MT: We do have one more to view... Public Enemies, a Johnny Depp flick you most likely either have seen or know about. We enjoy Mr Depp's acting
NS: We are long time fans of Mr. Depp as well. Please let me know what you think of ‘PE,’ as we’ve not seen it yet. I haven’t been to a movie theater for about 15 years. Have you compared your rental costs, and inconvenience, with that of Netflix? You wouldn’t need to worry about “time allowing.”
MT: btw: re: cooking shows. the food channel is one of my favorite places to spend time observing some of the finest chef's in the country perform their culinary artistry.
NS: I see, it is an ‘art thing.’ For me, food prep is an ‘eating thing,’ which leaves little room for spectators.
MT: it is absolutely delectable and reminds me of when I suckled the breast of an angel..!
NS: Kinky.
Have you read what Wiki says about ‘agave nectar’? It sounds deadly. But, what the hey. Obviously, you’re close to the angels anyway.
MT: Good Gawd... there is no escaping this presence! No matter my whereabouts this God-thing is there making sure my individuality is but a dream within which this God also lives.
NS: Fear not, my frightened of deific overcrowding, friend. ‘You,’ in your individuality, Are the “God-thing,” and completely “alone ‘as’ the Alone.”
MT: Why should I be or attempt to be anything whilst I spend my limited moments upon this plane when ultimately all belongs to Allah?
NS: Since “all belongs to Allah,” you cannot “be or attempt to be anything,” except Allah.
” Every creature is a participation of Him who alone exists of Himself, all Nature may be reduced to the one Principle, and Creator and creature may be regarded as one.”(St. Gregory of Nyssa)
MT: I ask myself if this Pure Consciousness is in reality nothing more nor less than the Ego of All Ego which enjoys itself in a narcissistic fashion that even prohibits It's progeny the same privilege? What sees in their eyes, these men such as you quote who paint their visions of their God as to make themselves but momentary shells in which to contain their God(s) and give them hu'man qualities and meanings?
NS: The mental pleasure of a novel, or movie, comes best when we ‘vicariously’ participate in the fantasy. But, fall completely into it, claiming no other self than the fictional character, then comes ignorance and suffering. There are no “shells,” nor gods stuffed into containers.
”We live in illusion and the appearance of things.
There is a Reality. We are that Reality.
When you understand this, you see that you are nothing.
And being nothing, you are everything. That is all.”(Kalu Rimpoche)
MT: little old me is but one more life form with multitudes scattered throughout the universe and beyond, whose vision of the Absolute pales in comparison to the so-called Reality of that which has been described and labeled as God Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth.
NS: Since the Absolute is “Absolute,” there is absolutely No other: life forms, scattering, universes, beyonds, visions, little me’s, nor the possibility to make comparisons.
”There is no production, no extinction, no annihilation, no permanence, no unity, no diversity, no coming in, no going out.”(Chi-tsang)
MT: Mea Maxima Culpa! Forgive me Father for I have sinned
G.B. Shaw: ”All great truths begin as blasphemies.”
MT: A Divine Mystery which may take a Saint Sherlock to solve, with crooked pipe in hand filled to the brim with ideas and thoughts, hints and possibilities to unravel the shroud that covers Truth.
Tao te Ching: ”The secret waits for eyes unclouded by longing.”
MT: But in the meantime, I shall simply be that which reflects the quiet, calm and knowing Self within... bliss shall be mine while others rush to solve mysteries larger than themselves only to bypass their Self-Knowing as being irrelevant to the so-called Greater Good which dwarfs their very ability to ever comprehend satisfactorily.
NS: Sounds like a plan. Rock on.
MT: Would this be the same as "A Pratyekabuddha (Sanskrit) or Paccekabuddha (Pali), literally "a lone buddha" , "a buddha on their own" or "a private buddha" - Wikipedia.
NS: It would indeed, only mine was spelled incorrectly. A ‘Pratyekabuddha’ is also known as one who was not helped by anyone, nor seeks to help others, in gaining realization.
I like your moniker, ‘Astral Hobo.’ It seems to suit you; not that I ever doubted your mynd to be MT. ‘Astral Hobo’ is reminiscent of Jack Kerouac’s “Dharma Bums.”
MT: But one can become so Spiritually moved as to appear to not be within the realm of those that know 'him' as not being himself... what he was before he became enlightened... awakened. His peers are still asleep and do not recognize him/her anymore from what was.
NS: I’m not following you. Could you elaborate a bit for those up here in the cheap seats?
MT: the newly awakened may or may not return to speak of their Realization.
NS: True. The Pratyeka would be one example. But, no matter. It is never the individual who speaks, and the awakened never takes credit for words spoken, or withheld.
”This hand and foot are the sleeve and boot of another hand and foot.” (Rumi)
MT: The universe of 100 million years in the past was far different from the universe we know of today.
NS: I knew you were older than I, but I had no idea just how much older! I suspect that physicists, such as old Albert, see the human “world” (time & space) as a convenient mental scaffolding for making a chaotic soup of waves and particles comprehensible. Some physicists posit that particles exist Only when an observer is present. The Copenhagen Interpretation, states categorically: ”There is no reality in the absence of observation.” Which isn’t too far from:
”The mind precedes all things, the mind dominates all things, the mind creates all things.” (Gautama Buddha)
Say hi to your “angel” for me, NS (Natural Sweetner)
MT: Good grief, mahn... everyday you luxuriate before the alter of theatre..?
NS: For we hedonists, it is mandatory movies all of the time. Didn’t mean to shock you with my excessive decadence.
MT: We barely spare the time to watch one movie per month,
NS: Ah yes, so it must ever be for the laboring masses; a pity, and all that sympathetic rot.
MT: We do have one more to view... Public Enemies, a Johnny Depp flick you most likely either have seen or know about. We enjoy Mr Depp's acting
NS: We are long time fans of Mr. Depp as well. Please let me know what you think of ‘PE,’ as we’ve not seen it yet. I haven’t been to a movie theater for about 15 years. Have you compared your rental costs, and inconvenience, with that of Netflix? You wouldn’t need to worry about “time allowing.”
MT: btw: re: cooking shows. the food channel is one of my favorite places to spend time observing some of the finest chef's in the country perform their culinary artistry.
NS: I see, it is an ‘art thing.’ For me, food prep is an ‘eating thing,’ which leaves little room for spectators.
MT: it is absolutely delectable and reminds me of when I suckled the breast of an angel..!
NS: Kinky.
Have you read what Wiki says about ‘agave nectar’? It sounds deadly. But, what the hey. Obviously, you’re close to the angels anyway.MT: Good Gawd... there is no escaping this presence! No matter my whereabouts this God-thing is there making sure my individuality is but a dream within which this God also lives.
NS: Fear not, my frightened of deific overcrowding, friend. ‘You,’ in your individuality, Are the “God-thing,” and completely “alone ‘as’ the Alone.”
MT: Why should I be or attempt to be anything whilst I spend my limited moments upon this plane when ultimately all belongs to Allah?
NS: Since “all belongs to Allah,” you cannot “be or attempt to be anything,” except Allah.
” Every creature is a participation of Him who alone exists of Himself, all Nature may be reduced to the one Principle, and Creator and creature may be regarded as one.”(St. Gregory of Nyssa)
MT: I ask myself if this Pure Consciousness is in reality nothing more nor less than the Ego of All Ego which enjoys itself in a narcissistic fashion that even prohibits It's progeny the same privilege? What sees in their eyes, these men such as you quote who paint their visions of their God as to make themselves but momentary shells in which to contain their God(s) and give them hu'man qualities and meanings?
NS: The mental pleasure of a novel, or movie, comes best when we ‘vicariously’ participate in the fantasy. But, fall completely into it, claiming no other self than the fictional character, then comes ignorance and suffering. There are no “shells,” nor gods stuffed into containers.
”We live in illusion and the appearance of things.
There is a Reality. We are that Reality.
When you understand this, you see that you are nothing.
And being nothing, you are everything. That is all.”(Kalu Rimpoche)
MT: little old me is but one more life form with multitudes scattered throughout the universe and beyond, whose vision of the Absolute pales in comparison to the so-called Reality of that which has been described and labeled as God Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth.
NS: Since the Absolute is “Absolute,” there is absolutely No other: life forms, scattering, universes, beyonds, visions, little me’s, nor the possibility to make comparisons.
”There is no production, no extinction, no annihilation, no permanence, no unity, no diversity, no coming in, no going out.”(Chi-tsang)
MT: Mea Maxima Culpa! Forgive me Father for I have sinned
G.B. Shaw: ”All great truths begin as blasphemies.”
MT: A Divine Mystery which may take a Saint Sherlock to solve, with crooked pipe in hand filled to the brim with ideas and thoughts, hints and possibilities to unravel the shroud that covers Truth.
Tao te Ching: ”The secret waits for eyes unclouded by longing.”
MT: But in the meantime, I shall simply be that which reflects the quiet, calm and knowing Self within... bliss shall be mine while others rush to solve mysteries larger than themselves only to bypass their Self-Knowing as being irrelevant to the so-called Greater Good which dwarfs their very ability to ever comprehend satisfactorily.
NS: Sounds like a plan. Rock on.
MT: Would this be the same as "A Pratyekabuddha (Sanskrit) or Paccekabuddha (Pali), literally "a lone buddha" , "a buddha on their own" or "a private buddha" - Wikipedia.
NS: It would indeed, only mine was spelled incorrectly. A ‘Pratyekabuddha’ is also known as one who was not helped by anyone, nor seeks to help others, in gaining realization.
I like your moniker, ‘Astral Hobo.’ It seems to suit you; not that I ever doubted your mynd to be MT. ‘Astral Hobo’ is reminiscent of Jack Kerouac’s “Dharma Bums.”
MT: But one can become so Spiritually moved as to appear to not be within the realm of those that know 'him' as not being himself... what he was before he became enlightened... awakened. His peers are still asleep and do not recognize him/her anymore from what was.
NS: I’m not following you. Could you elaborate a bit for those up here in the cheap seats?
MT: the newly awakened may or may not return to speak of their Realization.
NS: True. The Pratyeka would be one example. But, no matter. It is never the individual who speaks, and the awakened never takes credit for words spoken, or withheld.
”This hand and foot are the sleeve and boot of another hand and foot.” (Rumi)
MT: The universe of 100 million years in the past was far different from the universe we know of today.
NS: I knew you were older than I, but I had no idea just how much older! I suspect that physicists, such as old Albert, see the human “world” (time & space) as a convenient mental scaffolding for making a chaotic soup of waves and particles comprehensible. Some physicists posit that particles exist Only when an observer is present. The Copenhagen Interpretation, states categorically: ”There is no reality in the absence of observation.” Which isn’t too far from:
”The mind precedes all things, the mind dominates all things, the mind creates all things.” (Gautama Buddha)
Say hi to your “angel” for me, NS (Natural Sweetner)
Pleasant Saturday to you, N(early)S(unday)...
I trust you and you mate enjoyed the passing Holiday, with the spirit intended..?
Ours was quiet and enjoyable... enjoyable to see our #2 son, Nate, getting into the Holiday and yesterday, opening his gifts which brought him glee. I cooked most of the day for our evening feast, which made Nathan also quiet happy, looking forward to the big meal. But I must admit, this being the first time I handled all the cooking for a large meal, I was rather worn out in the final hour, trying to make sure all dishes were finished in time so as not to leave any one dish cold and tasteless... an art for those in the know. The mashed potatoes were very close to reaching that point of ... cool... but not so cool as to high five the taters.
NS: For we hedonists, it is mandatory movies all of the time. Didn’t mean to shock you with my excessive decadence.
Surely this excessive movie indulgence makes for a dull boy..? How many movies must one see before you realize the plots are all alike - the pursuit bad over evil, of love over loss... altho these themes are what makes stories stories...
Speaking of decadence... I confess, we watched two movies this week and began a 3rd. Public Enemy was an excellently executed movie, with Johnny Depp playing Dillinger and Christian Bale doing a fine job of playing Melvin Purvis, the man who was chosen by J. Edgar Hoover to pursue Dillinger. Johnny, as usual, gave a flawless performance as did all the other parts... with kudos to the 1930's atmosphere including the soundtrack.
(If that little blurb in support of the movie doesn't convince you to put Public Enemy on you Netflix list, I'll be disappointed.)
NS: I see, it is an ‘art thing.’ For me, food prep is an ‘eating thing,’ which leaves little room for spectators.
Definitely an 'art thing', bon ami... what is life without the joy of art, that which is inspired to inspire...
NS: Have you read what Wiki says about ‘agave nectar’?
I did and found the great majority of information to be nothing but positive... especially that kinky, succulent part regarding it's sweetness!
NS: Fear not, my frightened of deific overcrowding, friend. ‘You,’ in your individuality, Are the “God-thing,” and completely “alone ‘as’ the Alone.”
Thank you for alleviating my unnecessary fears. To know that I am alone as the Alone is comforting. Never again will I have to needlessly concern myself with the haunting uneasiness of being alone with the fantasy of others surrounding me never knowing aloneness.
NS: I’m not following you. Could you elaborate a bit for those up here in the cheap seats?
Please accept my invitation to the front row! A much easier analogy to what I had said regarding one becoming so Spiritually moved, would be "stoned outta his head..." or "spaced out"... "on a trip"...
NS: "It is never the individual who speaks, and the awakened never takes credit for words spoken, or withheld. "
This line sounds as if 'we' are nothing more/nothing less that instruments for a greater good.
Who was it that said? When asked if he believed in God, he replied-
"Of course not! I believe in something much greater than that!"
(My lovely mate asked: Are you two still on the Task Master thread?)
I leave you this morning with this piece I wrote in 2001, amigo -
Morning Meditation
fragile vestibules before atman
woven delicately by threads of dna
we try with our best ability
to do what we are taught
even though the teachings may
lead us astray...
we persist
on the path doing as our
teachers, parents, families
have done for hundreds of years
how can we do otherwise?
how do we get beyond the limits
imposed by the teachings
laid down from times passed
and see our futures,
our possibilities arise
over the mountains so high
snow covered with the ices
of negativity frozen thick
with neglect, with fear,
with no understanding
of our true capabilities
open and expand
open and expand
reach your heights
touch the god within
feel the presence
of eternity flowing
endlessly inside
we are all one
one life one planet
one star to light
our darkness
one moon to govern
our eternal flow
one mystery to savor
for a lifetime in
reverence
in awe
in one
i love
i hug
i am
i
we
you
always
I trust you and you mate enjoyed the passing Holiday, with the spirit intended..?
Ours was quiet and enjoyable... enjoyable to see our #2 son, Nate, getting into the Holiday and yesterday, opening his gifts which brought him glee. I cooked most of the day for our evening feast, which made Nathan also quiet happy, looking forward to the big meal. But I must admit, this being the first time I handled all the cooking for a large meal, I was rather worn out in the final hour, trying to make sure all dishes were finished in time so as not to leave any one dish cold and tasteless... an art for those in the know. The mashed potatoes were very close to reaching that point of ... cool... but not so cool as to high five the taters.
NS: For we hedonists, it is mandatory movies all of the time. Didn’t mean to shock you with my excessive decadence.
Surely this excessive movie indulgence makes for a dull boy..? How many movies must one see before you realize the plots are all alike - the pursuit bad over evil, of love over loss... altho these themes are what makes stories stories...
Speaking of decadence... I confess, we watched two movies this week and began a 3rd. Public Enemy was an excellently executed movie, with Johnny Depp playing Dillinger and Christian Bale doing a fine job of playing Melvin Purvis, the man who was chosen by J. Edgar Hoover to pursue Dillinger. Johnny, as usual, gave a flawless performance as did all the other parts... with kudos to the 1930's atmosphere including the soundtrack.
(If that little blurb in support of the movie doesn't convince you to put Public Enemy on you Netflix list, I'll be disappointed.
)NS: I see, it is an ‘art thing.’ For me, food prep is an ‘eating thing,’ which leaves little room for spectators.
Definitely an 'art thing', bon ami... what is life without the joy of art, that which is inspired to inspire...
NS: Have you read what Wiki says about ‘agave nectar’?
I did and found the great majority of information to be nothing but positive... especially that kinky, succulent part regarding it's sweetness!
NS: Fear not, my frightened of deific overcrowding, friend. ‘You,’ in your individuality, Are the “God-thing,” and completely “alone ‘as’ the Alone.”
Thank you for alleviating my unnecessary fears. To know that I am alone as the Alone is comforting. Never again will I have to needlessly concern myself with the haunting uneasiness of being alone with the fantasy of others surrounding me never knowing aloneness.
NS: I’m not following you. Could you elaborate a bit for those up here in the cheap seats?
Please accept my invitation to the front row! A much easier analogy to what I had said regarding one becoming so Spiritually moved, would be "stoned outta his head..." or "spaced out"... "on a trip"...
NS: "It is never the individual who speaks, and the awakened never takes credit for words spoken, or withheld. "
This line sounds as if 'we' are nothing more/nothing less that instruments for a greater good.
Who was it that said? When asked if he believed in God, he replied-
"Of course not! I believe in something much greater than that!"
(My lovely mate asked: Are you two still on the Task Master thread?)
I leave you this morning with this piece I wrote in 2001, amigo -
Morning Meditation
fragile vestibules before atman
woven delicately by threads of dna
we try with our best ability
to do what we are taught
even though the teachings may
lead us astray...
we persist
on the path doing as our
teachers, parents, families
have done for hundreds of years
how can we do otherwise?
how do we get beyond the limits
imposed by the teachings
laid down from times passed
and see our futures,
our possibilities arise
over the mountains so high
snow covered with the ices
of negativity frozen thick
with neglect, with fear,
with no understanding
of our true capabilities
open and expand
open and expand
reach your heights
touch the god within
feel the presence
of eternity flowing
endlessly inside
we are all one
one life one planet
one star to light
our darkness
one moon to govern
our eternal flow
one mystery to savor
for a lifetime in
reverence
in awe
in one
i love
i hug
i am
i
we
you
always
_________________________________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Allow not destiny to intrude upon Now
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Allow not destiny to intrude upon Now
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