Sunday Stream (188) ~ (put title here)

[mtmynd]

(put title here)

I just learned that Mumbai, which has dominated the news the past few days, was originally named Bombay. I always liked the word, Bombay. It brought up an imaginative journey to a mysterious place filled with the never-before-seen scenery, aromatic smells from all over the world combined in exotic scents that brought exquisite pleasure when inhaling the fragrances, clothing that was patterned in mystical patterned combinations and psychedelic colors which draped around the bodies of women whose eyes would cause my breath to quicken, and the men in their white waist-long shirts that had no collars with matching white linen pants and sandals strapped to their feet...some with long white beards flowing down their chests... the humid and sometimes suffocating weather was never completely unbearable but worthy of deep inhalations to take in the essence of it's namesake, Bombay.

What is this Mumbai? The name itself reminds me of a Rudyard Kipling character that is slow-witted and hard of hearing, his glasses barely strong enough to see two feet ahead of his footsteps, but never-the-less this Mumbai continues onward often in situations that most would never enter into but thanks to his glasses he feels what he is seeing before him is a future bright and golden filled with beauty and pleasure around every corner... poor Mumbai... let's not tell him how real the world is. He wouldn't believe it anyway... why should he? Nobody pays any attention to Mumbai unless he's bargaining for some vegetables from the merchant four blocks from his cardboard shelter in an perpetually shaded alleyway. A hermit within the jungles of the city, a vision of paradise to Mumbai.

Apparently, given the latest news, the attacks on Mumbai were between 10 and 16 men, ages 18 thru 28. That doesn't surprise me. When I heard this I was immediately reminded of an interview I had seen on the tube a couple years back. The man being interviewed was a writer who had done extensive studies and interviews with would-be-bombers who were caught before they blew themselves and others up. They were now prisoners. What sticks in my mind about this was the interviewee saying all the men, and even one woman, all were between 18 and 28 and everyone one of them were virgins. Virgins. This still amazes me. It seems so simple to understand the reason how people such as these, that choose to blow themselves up while killing as many people as they can, remain virgins.

If I were a betting man, I would bet these current perpetrators that pulled off the attack in Mumbai are/were virgins. Certainly not every virgin between the ages of 18-28 are, or will become, suicide bombers. Knowing that suicide bombers in this age group are virgins explains how sexual frustration can twist and confuse the good sense, not to mention the morality which is ingrained in young practicing Muslims, of some otherwise normal people when they are subjected to a perverse doctrine by their so-called elders that have indoctrinated these poor folks into thinking that their own virginity will be rewarded by their Allah when they not only take their own life, but take as many innocent people as they can with them... the reward being a select group of virgins like themselves to release their sexual frustration by their Allah... what could be more wonderful than to have permission from your Allah to unleash this frustration that has been building up for so long... so many years of hearing about sex, so many years of seeing pictures that they felt they shouldn't be looking at, so many years of thinking about how sex would be with their imagined chosen partners... a blessed event condoned by Allah himself. "Praise be to Allah!" they can be heard shouting...

Very sad what we have done to ourselves in the name of our God, no matter the name we've been conditioned to call him/her/it. And when that becomes unbalanced... 'one way or no way, then we are inviting trouble. The more out of balance we get... the more repressed we allow ourselves to become... the more negative we become. That is the foundation of frustration... repression.


Like all things, repression comes with a balance, When we tell ourselves no to punching the nose of the person at the bus stop is not repression but that's good sense. Forcing oneself onto another for sexual favors is certainly not repression but brought on by repression over and over until bam! a non-consensual act occurs. Balance must be uppermost in the mind when dealing with our social lives... our contact with others, be they family, relatives, friends or associates... we must use balance in our actions to maintain the social needs of everyday living. We may not know the words or the reasons of balance, but our inner nature, our conscience will tell us when we're out of balance... our Jiminy Cricket... the little voice without a mouth that speaks to only us... we are the only one that can hear that voice and we are the only one that must respond to it. That little Jiminy Cricket is ours alone and nobody else's... listen to it and it'll lead us to goodness... true balance where we can enjoy both sides of every thing, as it should be... as it was meant to be.

Pinnochio (1940)

The Blue Fairy: ... always let your conscience be your guide.
_______

Lampwick: [picks up Jiminy] Hey, who's the beetle?
Jiminy Cricket: Put me down!
Pinocchio: He's my conscience. He tells me what's right and wrong.
Lampwick: What? You mean to tell me you take orders from a grasshopper?
Jiminy Cricket: "Grasshopper"?

[psst... our conscience even has a sense of humor.. if only we listen!]

* * * * * * *

cecil
30 noviembre 2008

[Arcadia]

interesting India depictions, Cecil!!!!!!!

maybe most of the world needs a good fuck, who knows!

saludos & gracias for the stream!!!!!!!

Arcadia

[mtmynd]

Gracias, Lady V !

Si, todo el mundo necessito un bueno 'fuck'... seguro si!

... and you are welcome for today's Stream.

buenos noches, amiga mia...

[Nazz]

Interesting take on a terrible subject. I don't think you can put the terrorist drive on sexual repression-- well, perhaps it contributes, but I'd guess only to a minor extent. Islam simply (or not so simply) has an extreme fringe driven by spurious notions of "jihad" and "martyrdom". I don't think the folks who push and finance these things generally have much interest in becoming "martyrs" themselves-- they are trying to gain power and advance an agenda, effectively distorting and abusing Islamic doctrine to get others to help do their bidding.

Yes, the Q'uran outlines jihad as a point of doctrine, and yes, Mohammed was no stranger to warlike ways, but the intent is one of self-defense, not indiscriminate killing. So I think that becomes the main driver. If the folks who push and bankroll terror can get their young, disaffected footsoldiers to believe that their terrorism amounts to "self-defense" against Western exploitation in general, then they will continue to find willing "martyrs" I suppose.

And as I've pointed out many times (to great disdain, usually), Western/Christian interests practice their own forms of violent extremism, generally in the less obvious realms of corporate abuse and exploitation.

Oh, and you're right. "Bombay" is strong and exotic. "Mumbai" is like a mumble..

[stilltrucking]

Interesting stream Cecil. I think you have a point. This guy Qutb is the godfather of the Osama Bin Laden and the rest. He is very big on sexual purity.

"The America I Have Seen," Qutb describes the way women act in the United States:

"The American girl is well acquainted with her body’s seductive capacity. She knows it lies in the face, and in expressive eyes, and thirsty lips. She knows seductiveness lies in the round breasts, the full buttocks, and in the shapely thighs, sleek legs and she knows all this and does not hide it…Then she adds to all this the fetching laugh, the naked looks, and the bold moves, and she does not ignore this for one moment or forget it!" 48

In this description it is clear that Qutb is disgusted that the female not only leaves her body uncovered, but that she also actively uses it as a weapon. By using their bodies in this manner, women are prone to be treated by men as sexual objects rather than dignified child-bearers.

While Qutb has harsh words against the American woman’s seductiveness, he also criticizes the way that American men use their muscular build to woo women. He cites an article in a magazine which surveyed different women, coming to the conclusion that the majority were attracted to men with "ox muscles." Such public discussion of sensuality is an example of what Qutb argues is the "sexual primitiveness" of the West.49
The Thought of Sayyid Qutb: Radical Islam's Philosophical Foundations

On the other hand:

"Consciousness of death is the primary repression, not sexuality."
The Denial of Death by Ernest Becker

As a brief sampler of what you can expect: Becker (who died in 1974), following Rank and others, notes the role of what he calls immortality-ideologies in history as they trigger violence and barbarism in their efforts to purge the world of the 'evil' of rival immortality-ideologies. He writes that societies are "hero systems for the denial of death" by which we are promised eternal life in exchange for 'giving' ourselves fully and heroically to the immortality project. Just as radical Muslim suicide bombers give up their lives to help rid the world of the evil that George Bush and America represent to them, Bush and his cohorts are bent on securing Middle East oil, the necessary lubricant to ensure the continuation of the 'good life' in the West.

http://rankbeckergroup.blogspot.com/

We can feel morally superior because we have aircraft carriers, F-16’s, cruise missiles, predator drones, cluster bombs, no need for suicide bombers. I think about that every time we wipe out a wedding party in Afghanistan.


FYI

The Denial of Death by Ernest Becker
Cited in
The Nonduality of Life and Death: A Buddhist View of Repression
http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-PHIL/davloy.htm

[mtmynd]

Thanks, mnaz, for your reply...

It sounds as tho you may be seeing the 'mr. big' behind each attack rather than the virgin foot soldier, which is who I was speaking of. Why is it that what research is available points to these suicide bombers as virgins between the ages of 18 and 28 - the biological age where the testosterone runs strongly, but yet has no outlet within that virgin body. Had these men (and few women) not been sexually repressed to that degree, the chances of them being used by those responsible for conditioning them to be suicide bombers would, quite possibly, be far less likely. Why just a handful of these suicidal attacker/bombers out of the millions of followers of religion and why are they virginal but yet morbid killers without conscience? It is quite unholy when one hears, (as reported by a witness), that one of the attackers in Mumbai looked directly at his victim and with a smile on his face gunned the man down... no remorse, no guilt.

Our sexual drive, especially at that age, and if male, is extremely strong and if one has the proclivity to follow such a strict regimen within their religion that pretty much controls every aspect of their lives from food and drink to praying several times daily, a religion that strictly enforces the social behavior of its followers from money to dating to what one wears... and one can easily see the roots of a repressive society. Add the forbidden sex into the mix and there will be a few willing to do their duty for their leaders under the guise that they will be martyrs... and their virginity will be rewarded with multiple virgins in paradise. I believe these small but dangerous groups, the suicidal amongst them, are really running on guilt and will appease their Allah by doing the will of their Ayatollah or Mullah... those that 'call the shots as to what is correct and acceptable in life and what is not.

Like all extreme behavior, these radical youths are not the majority but pose a real danger to our global society, equal to the dangerous message of the leaders they follow.

[mtmynd]

Howdy, truck.... nice reply. I was really taken by some of the quote by Qutb. His words sounded as if he, too, was lured into the web of American women by his all to vivid descriptions.

But what bothers me about that was his singling our the women of America rather than most of the women of the Industrial/Commerce world, i.e. Europe and many parts of Asia, the Americas, both North and South, and let's not leave out Australia, NZ or even South Afrika. Women's fashions are pretty much mimicked throughout the world, except for many Middle Eastern countries that are heavily Muslim and controlled by men.

As far as the second provided quote by Ernest Becker, I'll have to get back to you on that as local time is nearing the midnight hour and I must get to bed so I can rise in the morning and take my daily walk before breakfast... and possibly give some more thought to that quote while doing so.

Later, amigo...

[mtmynd]

There is a lot there - from the quote, to the link, to the movie and all the various things that make up this whole bag you've uncovered. Great reads. A few comments...

Ernest Becker -
"Consciousness of death is the primary repression, not sexuality."

I'm not convinced that this one quote is totally accurate. Let me cover my ass by saying nobody except for a handful of folks like Ernest here could agree or disagree with a statement like that. How many people know what 'consciousness of death' really means and does it really mean anything at all?

First let me say in regards to death that death as we see it, as we know of it exists solely because that which had life and then has no sign of life is called 'dead.' No confusion there. However if we ascribe to the first law of thermodynamics, ("Energy can neither be created nor destroyed. It can only change forms."), we will be able to see that death is not an ending but a transformation of the energy once contained within a body particular to it's need to survive and regenerate thru sexuality. Sexuality needn't be viewed as purely a selfish act that brings great pleasure to those that participate, but more deeply sexuality is the means of reproduction for all living things. Repress this much needed drive and you are in effect bringing death to the process, i.e. repress sexuality, deny life. Consciousness of death may be of some use to those that study the aftereffects of repression - the denial of life awakens the awareness of living without the life nature intended : sexual beings no matter the given body. The sexuality of the armadillo is just a powerful for the armadillo as is the sexuality of a sunflower whose sole purpose is to reproduce more sunflowers. Name the life form and each has the same purpose - reproduce, i.e. the sex drive is the engine which runs the body on course to the state of reproduction. Consciousness of death? That can only be if one (life form) unplugs from it's sexuality... the drain of the drive awakens the knowing that their end is near. But consciousness of death, the way I see it, is only after the drive begins weakening, not before or during the sexual prime.

Re: Flight from Death, a movie link

Following the work of the late cultural anthropologist, Ernest Becker, and his Pulitzer Prize-winning book Denial of Death, this documentary explores the ongoing research of a group of social psychologists that may forever change the way we look at ourselves and the world. Over the last twenty-five years, this team of researchers has conducted over 300 laboratory studies, which substantiate Becker's claim that death anxiety is a primary motivator of human behavior, specifically aggression and violence.

http://www.flightfromdeath.com/synopsis.htm

What I have underlined here is what slowed me down... pause to think about this... it's somehow not convincing enough.

Again, allow me to explain - re: "death anxiety is a primary motivator of human behavior, specifically aggression and violence."

The word 'primary' would suggest 'first' as in 'first motivator' compared to all the other motivators after that. And then it is written that the death anxiety being this primary motivator of our human behavior ... and this is where I have a problem: "specifically aggression and violence." Human behavior encompasses so much more than just these two behaviors, aggression and violence! But the writer specifically addresses these two behaviors with our, (human), first motivator, i.e the prime motivation for human behavior is to express our aggressive and violent behavior? I don't buy into that. Our aggressive/violent behavior is only a part of our behavioral pattern... and only surfaces when our life (or any life for that matter), is endangered. This is including all living things, great and small. Life when endangered recoils, either choosing to fight or to flee depending upon it's ability to defend against the aggressor. The lowly ground squirrel stays close to it's entrance upon seeing the much deadlier and agile hawk circling overhead. It would be a foolish ground squirrel that would challenge the hawk in any confrontation.

We have to enter into psychology to find the primary reasons behind any aggressive behavior other than for food, territory or defense of offspring, indeed if there are any... as these three things are what Nature has given us to assure that we don't become too complacent in our living habits. We, and again I am including all living forms, must be aware of any intrusions upon our life as well as remain aware that life is more than an aggressive, violent act perpetrated upon itself. It is the answer to life's completion awakening to the awe-inspiring beauty that abounds all around every one of life's living organisms. Life never really ends but transforms itself to fit within it's limitations to fulfill it's potential given by a mystery far greater than anyone or anything can ever hope to fully understand.

[enough... for now...]

Thx, truck, for the exchange. I appreciate it.

[stilltrucking]

Pardon the random thoughts.

Freud said somewhere that civilization is built on repression. More or less sexual repression. he also said that all human behavior is over-determined, i.e. it is difficult to pin our reasons for doing something to one. We usually have more than one motive.

I have not read through all the links, but I have read about half the book.
Becker goes on about the need for the heroic in our lives.


A couple of days ago eight people killed in a restaurant in Tijuana. Some guys walk in with AK-forty sevens and begin randomly shooting people. I wonder if the gunmen were virgins.


For me there is no sense in denying death. There is a sea change in a living body when it dies. You can watch it rot.

Seems like proof enough to me that death exists.

I think it is all beyond me to understand. I have no fear of what happens to me after I die. It is the getting dead that I dread

For some reason I do fear dying in my sleep. I want to die while I am conscious. I want to feel the panic and then the acceptance of it. My mother is my model for a good death. So composed so calm, but maybe it was the morphine. But it don't matter, either way I will be dead.

I wish I knew more about entanglement. I have some cockeyed belief in the ressurection of the body. But I am not articulate enough to express it.

I suppose the difference between entanglement and ressurection is that the math is there for one while the other is just intuition.

Somehow I am going to live forever. But I will still have to die once.



Not death I fear, it is the dying. Once I get through that I will have no fear.

Entanglement of all these tiny pieces, molecules and atoms, decomposing into chemicals taken up by the soil, the air, water. Feeding daisies and maggots. Start a perambulation around the galaxy sucked into a black hole and out the other side, in a couple of billion trillion years who is to say if I will ever be here again. Maybe with a different social security number but what the heck

random thoughts
that is all
I am too lazy to polish it up

[mtmynd]

truck... i always enjoy your meanderings... reminds me of a tumbleweed leisurely crossing the desert in a wind storm...

btw: that restaurant killing was in Juarez... Friday, I believe... the 30th killing in one week.. something like 1366 total this year... it's a friggin war zone and I don't think anyone knows for sure how many are virgins! haha! how can you tell if a dead man is a virgin? there all mexicans.. i doubt if there's a virgin amongst them... unless they're gay... ah.. were gay.. before the bullets began flying. nobody i know on this side goes over there anymore.. unless they have to for business... what choice, eh?

you body dies... the cells transform... many are consumed thru the rotting process, and some bugs get into them... bits and pieces of us get scattered aboot and some of us are fertilizer for the crops... which then get eatin' by whatever... the transformation continues... but the inner light! now that, amigo, continues burning away... the eternal light that illumines all things (first there was darkness and then light. genesis 3... after everything else was created in the dark... god doesn't need eyes... )... this is the same light that has given life to all things since the first breath was inhaled... and duality was born... shadow and light.. whatta pair!

Nate is hungry and I'm fixin' pasta tonite...

later...

thx

[stilltrucking]

Bon Appetit Nate

later

thanks for being a cyber pal of mine

[K&D]

being 23 myself....i wonder if my feelings will change when i'm older because I would say that I am a ver thymonic (sp?) kind of person, and i suppose that is stereotypical of someone my age, or at least boys...you remember "Stand By Me" there are so many movies out their about young men who would essentially die for eachother. One reason armies are made of young people probably has to do with physical abilitiy but I think maybe when you get older your less idealistic about the importance of unity, you define yourself less in the faces of you brothers and more in i don't know something else.

Thymos- A greek term involving spiritedness that arises from a sense of duty, respect, responsibility and/or public good as opposed to Eros- which is a spiritedness that has to do more with longing and can pretty much hit you without any good cause (and lets hope it keeps coming)

I don't think their is a sense of thymos in this country (i hope i haven't written about it lately to you guys) but the idea that we are binded together and that we have a sense of duty is not a big "american" thing after all we are rased on the idea that we are individuals.

Thymos can change the world for better or worse.

I don't know what i'd be without my sense of responsibility to others, i really don't...i am def a type of person who needs it and i've been that way my whole life.

there's my rant.

[Dave The Dov]

I see it as a bunch of people just being misguided by either themselves or someone else who is doing it. If Gandhi were still alive what would he have thought of all of this????
_________________
BMW 303

[stilltrucking]

Permission to come aboard here Cecil, I been looking at dav's question now for over 24 hours.

Remember that bit I wrote on the Mumbai killings about me going to bed every night with an imaginary shot gun tucked up under my chin? I said I was going to see a psychiatrist about that. But the person who "saved me" or steered me right was a Hindu boss I had at the time. Pretty dam close to what some might call a guru to me Cec.

Well anyway he told me about Gandhi's death. He did not cry while he was telling me but I could see the water welling up in his eyes.

Gandhi did not celebrate the independence from Great Brtain. He did not get caught up in the whoop de do over it. He was opposed to the Partition. In fact the man who murdered him was a Hindu zealot who was angry at Gandhi for being too friendly towards the Muslims.

I don't know what his thoughts would be today, I suppose they would be the same as those he had back then.

My boss was the first person to tell me what Gandhi's last thoughts were, or last words anyway



What were Gandhi's Last Words?

__________________
don't [sic] me.
Used the wrong browser
going to clean it up now.
___________________________
DONE!

[K&D]

well, here's the thing though....

perhaps the easily persuaded could have been persuade either way.

Who's to say that radicles on both ends (and Ghandi, MLKJr. etc were radicles) didn't have their share of confused kids looking for answers....i think they did.

mobilizing the base sometimes is mobilizing the lost, for good or for bad.

this sunday stream i predict will last all the way up to and past this upcoming sunday.