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Sunday Stream (225) ~ Belief

Posted: December 6th, 2009, 11:42 am
by mtmynd
[note: we are doing our last Sunday show today and instead of putting up some pictures I opted to dig thru the Stream archives and found this one I had written 9.15.02, a bit over 7 years ago, and posted on Litkicks.]
Belief
Belief is usually the acceptance in another’s experience and not our own.

If we blindly accept another’s experience as being our own, we fail to validate that experience, and merely continue to wag a tail that is not our own, simply mimicking another’s words that may or may not fully translate the experience, thereby weakening said experience into vacant explanations of an experience that has already become the past, therefore construing a past as being presently a belief in reality that has become no longer valid within its own right. We subjugate our own possibility of attaining our own experience by the shortness of explanations thru the limitations of a language that pales to experience itself.

What to do?

If our insistence in believing persists, we may find ourselves disbelieving our own experience when the experience occurs within ourselves and mistakenly refute that experience as being something that we may define as true, because we have resolutely established the belief as being our own, whereas the experience is our own, and therefore is true for ourselves. So we are left with a conditioning of doubt because of our faith in a belief that belies our own experience and we fail to find adequate explanations of such experience within our own language shortcomings, and dismiss our own experience as being untrue, and continue to accept the belief of another.

In so doing we consciously (or subconsciously) prove our own worth in experience as delusional, thereby forfeiting our worth as the individual that we are possible of achieving if we were not so engaged in (again) belief systems that have become icons in another’s individuality.

So what may we surmise from this?

To assume the beliefs of another may be just an adjunct to further discovery of ourselves and not a stopping point in the endless journey of what, why, when, and where...for the journey is just that, a journey...which is what we are ultimately all on, and whether we accept this as a belief or a truth is of no concern to anyone but our own existence, if we simply stop and smell, the experience will satisfy the inner us without regard to a belief or not.

Attainment becomes another level of which to enjoy the mystery of existence... to see with a new perspective, to sense with heightened awareness that which further reveals our own individuality...and it is with these new eyes that we perceive of these mysteries thru the peacefulness of being just what we are.


cecil
12.06.09
[written: 9/15/02]

Picture of the Week:
froggy

Image
[photo: cecil]

Posted: December 6th, 2009, 7:49 pm
by Arcadia
7 years... wow! :)

gracias for the stream, Cecil!!!

Hope you are enjoying the show!! :wink:

saludos,

Arcadia

Posted: December 7th, 2009, 8:53 am
by Artguy
Believing can be a leap of faith...intellectually accepting and experiencing - two different things all together...At times I really want to believe something that is not right in front of me...but the need to experience always gets the better of me...Am I really empty of a singular self...don't know yet....

Posted: December 7th, 2009, 10:45 am
by mtmynd
Hola, Victoria ye gracias! Si, 7 anos... hard to believe that much time has passed thru the Stream and under the bridge. :)

We had a good show yesterday considering the economic climate the U.S. is going thru right now... and from listening to other vendors, we did very good, but not as well as one year ago (the same story from many... "last year was better.." :lol:)
_______

g'day, Kurt. "... At times I really want to believe something that is not right in front of me..."

I think we not only want that but indulge in when we have no other belief to believe in. Belief easily becomes an attachment that somehow fulfills us even if temporarily, it often is enough for the moment, eh? The problem I've had with my beliefs over the ages is how some of them stubbornly refuse to go away despite the best of intentions to drop the attachment and move on... I find myself moving on alright, but still dragging this belief or maybe that belief along on a thin string hoping it will break away. :)

Posted: December 7th, 2009, 11:22 am
by Non Sum
:)
I believe your points regarding 'belief' are well taken, Cecil. Like all good mystics, you rightly insist on validation by direct, personal, experience; accepting no substitutes for it. In Zen there is mention made of, "the great doubt." I doubt that anything can be greater in its illuminative power than doubting. While I believe that nothing can be greater in its darkening power than blind belief.

"If you would be a real seeker after Truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things." (Rene Descartes)
NS (Near Shore)

Posted: December 7th, 2009, 7:47 pm
by Arcadia
Hola, Victoria ye gracias! : oh yeah, what a bloody compositum name I was given!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: ... Samotracia crossed my head! :wink:

Posted: December 7th, 2009, 9:18 pm
by mtmynd
ahhh, mi amiga, Veronica... que me ha dado un merecido reír esta noche con su comentario. para que le doy las gracias ... y reconocer mi mal ortografía! :lol: Por favor, acepte esta disculpa de un místico!

((pssst! quien es Samotracia? no se este palabra... misteriosa...)) ;)

Posted: December 7th, 2009, 9:33 pm
by mtmynd
We meet once again, NS, here on the banks of another Stream. Glad to 'hear' you enjoyed this one. I do appreciate it, very much.

NS: "Like all good mystics..."

Coming from you, I take that as a bloody nice comment, my friend. However, I would be reluctant to use that describing myself only because I see (my) Cecil more as a practitioner of life and all that it offers. I use the word 'practitioner' because I see all that I do as a practice towards some illusive end of perfection... each step drawing me closer and closer, as the approach, inch by inch slowly illumines the veiled ending quietly, mysteriously but determined to take me into it's hallowed essence inhaling me in a measured and whispered gasp that ends in pure peace... as i become one with all at last... ;)

Rene's quote was generous in saying 'at least once'... but should one trust his words, they would hopefully discover for themselves that once was not enough!

Thank you, amigo!

Posted: December 8th, 2009, 9:58 pm
by Non Sum
You write extremely well, Cecil. The pleasure is entirely mine.

MT: I use the word 'practitioner' because I see all that I do as a practice towards some illusive end of perfection.

NS: Then I shall practice calling you "practitioner," since you prefer it.
When the day comes that you've entirely abandoned all hope in this practitioner, I will then have to call you, "Perfection."

"The Buddha's object is to get rid of bigoted 'belief' in any form. He would preach 'Non-eternity' to believers of Eternalism; and preach 'neither Eternity nor Non-eternity' to those who believe in both." (Hui-neng Sutra)

Posted: December 9th, 2009, 9:48 pm
by mtmynd
NS: "You write extremely well, Cecil. The pleasure is entirely mine."

Accept my thank you, NS.

NS: "Then I shall practice calling you "practitioner," since you prefer it.
When the day comes that you've entirely abandoned all hope in this practitioner, I will then have to call you, "Perfection."
'

Please, my friend, never feel you "have to" do anything, but rather enjoy doing so from your heart.

"The Buddha's object is to get rid of bigoted 'belief' in any form. He would preach 'Non-eternity' to believers of Eternalism; and preach 'neither Eternity nor Non-eternity' to those who believe in both." (Hui-neng Sutra)

Good one (as all have been). How many post-it-notes do you now have within your reach? Have you given some serious thought to collecting them into a volume so others may enjoy them as much as myself?

<center> _______

Wisdom is gained from

listening to intuition,

the inner voice of silence

quietly revealing the touch

that longs to feel the

warmth of the soul.

___________</center>

;)

Posted: December 10th, 2009, 7:42 am
by still.trucking
Pretty good stream Cecil
thank you
Been bouncing around in my head for days now
And I sure do love froggies
Call him ,Jeremiah singing joy to the world
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzMeaICn9m8

NPR has a show were people can call in and leave recordings of what they believe.
One guy believed in barbeque.
Hard to argue with that.

here is the show if you are curious.
This I believe


keep on streaming
something I look forward to on a Sunday
like the Latest episode of Prince Valiant.in the Sunay paper

Posted: December 10th, 2009, 9:51 am
by mtmynd
Thx, truck... I appreciate your reply.

My first son, the Austinite, believes in movies... loves movies like I cannot believe! ;) So anyone and everyone indeed, does believe, even the BBQ believers (who must rub elbows with the beer believers, ya think?). True believers know from their own experience.
I'll check out that link. Thx.

That Three Dog Night song is a classic... easy to sing along with and the subject? Frogs be cool! 8)

Posted: December 10th, 2009, 10:28 am
by Non Sum
MT: Please, my friend, never feel you "have to" do anything, but rather enjoy doing so from your heart.

NS: The "heart" too is fated in its joys. And, "have to do's" are all that are ever done by anyone under the sun.

"He that is born to be hanged shall never be drowned." (Thomas Fuller)
NS (Necessity's Slave)

Posted: December 10th, 2009, 2:49 pm
by mtmynd
NS: The "heart" too is fated in its joys. And, "have to do's" are all that are ever done by anyone under the sun.

Life is all in the perception.

Posted: December 11th, 2009, 11:13 am
by stilltrucking
I appreciate you too Cecil
I may have given you an invidious honor
by bringing you into it
Sorry, I will avoid doing that in the future.

incyberFriendship
jt

Has the austinite seen Forbidden Planet. Oh I can believe in that one.