Comedy-- the divine butcher

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ren&stimpy
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Comedy-- the divine butcher

Post by ren&stimpy » June 9th, 2005, 9:26 pm

In his Poetics, Aristotle put comedy on a lower level than tragedy, which he felt was (or should be) addressed to serious topics, whether political or historical. Comedy does often seem to overpower writing or movies or TV shows- -as if all the world's problems could be forgotten in a fit of glorious laughter. Yankee consumers do love their yuks, and TV often seems like one big laugh factory, a new version of Seinfeld or a Chris Rock show on each channel, with plenty of pop irony and sarcasm-lite (though with little satire other than say SNL original or old Monty Python). Who really gives a phuck what is happening on the outside, if we can just get that mirth-buzz...

Beat elder Ferlinghetti made a few interesting remarks on comedy, though we may disagree with his somewhat Trotskyan agenda. Following Gregory Corso, who said "humor is the divine butcher," Ferlinghetti asserts that "humor destroys sublimity in poetry." I am no poet but I think there is some truth there: excessive humor and comedy and pop-irony are sort of intoxicants which prevent many people from seeing truth--whether that "truth" is construed as political, economic or biological--

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Doreen Peri
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Post by Doreen Peri » June 9th, 2005, 9:46 pm

I disagree. Without humor, nothing makes sense. Humor puts everything in perspective, including art. Which is why I'm quite alright with the fact that most of my poetry and artwork is laughable, at best.

:D

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Post by ren&stimpy » June 9th, 2005, 9:53 pm

I enjoy Shakespeare's comic wit to some degree (tho the banter may get silly and pointless), but I think the history plays and most of the tragedies (tho I don't care for Hamlet much) seem more profound. Humor may help sometimes, perhaps, as a sort of therapy, but I doubt stand-up comedy routines would go over real well right now in Baghdad.

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Post by e_dog » June 10th, 2005, 9:14 am

i think we should distinguish between at leasat dimension of this problem. especially since you bring up the comedy-tragedy opposition but also use comedy in the sense of humour.

Narrative-dramatic comedy is the proper opposite to tragedy; in the latter everyone dies in the end; in the former everyone gets laid in the end.

on the other hand, comedy as humour could be present in either of the other too, and it is simply opposed to a "serious" or somber tone, but does not exclude a serious subject matter.

consider the relevance of my remarks to a serious work of satire like Strangelove.
I don't think 'Therefore, I am.' Therefore, I am.

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Post by mousey1 » June 10th, 2005, 11:39 am

This is a timely little thread for me because my mind has been travelling along some similar thoughts....maybe not on such a grand scale as you mention but just regarding my own posts and input here at studioeight.

I usually like to lace a few attempts at humor into my responses to threads...not always but usually...depends whether it's appropriate to subject or not.

I have noticed it is not always well received, even oft-times ignored. Perhaps people feel I am making light of the discussion, detracting from its import.

All I know is that humor is important to me. A saving grace even, in this all too fucked up world.

A world without humor is no world I want to live in.

I may have veered slightly from what your intent of this thread was but I'm glad for the opportunity to throw in these thoughts of mine.

And on the contrary I think "stand up comedy routines" might go over very well in Baghdad if their yen is to such things. The human spirit can be fucking tenacious even in the face of some God-awful circumstances. Nothing would surprise me. Life goes on man....if you're lucky enough not be snuffed by a bullet or bomb!!!
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Post by Doreen Peri » June 10th, 2005, 12:29 pm

mousey1 -

you consistently keep me rollin' on the floor :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: girl!!!! Your humor is a delight! It is extremely well received here!!! please don't ever think otherwise! If you don't get many replies to your sharp wit and comedy, that doesn't mean people aren't laughing their asses off when they read ya.... believe me~! I know.... You are a bright light in this oftentimes dim lit tedious world of heavy, depressing matters ..... Your humor is a godsend!

Your last paragraph is right on, sista!!!!

keep it comin'!

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Post by ren&stimpy » June 10th, 2005, 2:43 pm

e-dog:

Not to sound too Polonius-like but I think that satire is quite different than mere humor or wit; Gulliver's Travels is not As You Like it. . I don't have my MH Abrams handy but I think Swfit-Voltaire--and Terry Southern as well---are more menippean. Yes the trad. comedy ends with marriage and a party and so forth; the tragedy with death, war etc.

So my remarks were more addressed to light comedy--I think light comedy--say As You like It-- takes skills and talent to write and perform but it is still frothy and mostly fluff. Show such as Seinfeld and Cheers take skills and wit but they are sort of futile and hollow.

WHat about satire? I dont know. I think satire is great--after finishing Candide, though it is perturbing and a bit obscene, I became convinced it was one of the best novels I had ever imbibed . Strangelove or the Magic Christian are also great in that Voltairean line if not up to Arouay's level of mastery. --but really man satire is above most people, or at least above Americans. Even a Vonnegut's broad satire is too much for the American masses to grasp.

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Post by mousey1 » June 11th, 2005, 11:20 am

Thank-you Doreen for your kind and thoughtful words, you're a treasure. Always nice to hear good things.

And I do of course realise that non replys do not automatically signal being snubarooed, and I don't feel that I have been. More often than not I am the one who reads and is silently amused without making comment. :wink:

But since it is being stated in this thread that perhaps humor and comedy prevent many people from seeing the truth and is detracting even, I took the opportunity to wonder aloud if it was felt that humor is out of place and considered out of line in some of these so-called serious discussions here at studioeight.

But I wrangled a lovely compliment instead so.....bonus!!!!! :D
I used to walk with my head in the clouds but I kept getting struck by lightning!
Now my head twitches and I drool alot. Anonymouse

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Post by Doreen Peri » June 11th, 2005, 12:43 pm

"so-called serious discussions here at studioeight"....????

NO!!!!! :shock: where???? you're kidding!! :roll: 8) :D :mrgreen:

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Post by mousey1 » June 11th, 2005, 1:05 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: but.....


Your humor is clouding the issue my dear....

please be so good as to....

cease and desist immediately...

There are matters of a serious nature that some of us eighters need to grasp by the knackers!!!!!!! :P


HA HA HA

It takes a nut to know a nut!!!!!!

Long live the nuts!!! Or is that knackers? :roll:
I used to walk with my head in the clouds but I kept getting struck by lightning!
Now my head twitches and I drool alot. Anonymouse

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Post by ren&stimpy » June 11th, 2005, 2:10 pm

Wit, n. The salt with which the American humorist spoils his [or her] intellectual cookery by leaving it out.

Ambrose Bierce

"With Bierce, humor was implicit in horror and explicit in satire. Notwithstanding the distinction he drew between wit and humor (see 249-50), satire was for Bierce a double-edged sword: being essentially irreverent, the satirist cannot spare himself from his own ridicule. Indeed, Bierce often turns the scalpel on himself so as to remove all blemish of bias; or else he adopts the prejudices and mindset of his contemporaries in order to expose their absurdity. This self-reflexivity knocks the feet out from under the satirist, leaving him no place to stand -- a grand reductio ad absurdum like Godel's incompleteness theorem that reduces all human thought and intention to tautological absurdity. In the resulting confusion, it is often hard to determine what position the author takes, though we may be dazzled by his (s)wordplay..."

Published in Studies in Weird Fiction 24 (Winter 1999): 35-6.

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Post by Arcadia » June 11th, 2005, 2:57 pm

In the words that used two weeks ago my actual english literature professor (who -I´m sure- didn´t invent nothing but is a great reader who sometimes reveals the fuente of his words, not in this case...):

* The word humor has still the corporal-perturbador side of the words humores during the medieval and renacimiento age.
* Humor and comicidad, ridículo aren´t the same thing.
* Humor requires ambiguedad.
* In Shakespeare humor was humor-terror: the jokes of the jokers in Shakespeares texts are not easy to laugh about.
* ?

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Post by e_dog » June 12th, 2005, 10:20 am

As Brecht said,

He who is laughing hasn't received the news yet.
I don't think 'Therefore, I am.' Therefore, I am.

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