Tabu

Publish it here.
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Rat Bag
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Tabu

Post by Rat Bag » August 18th, 2005, 12:34 am

... *sigh*
Last edited by Rat Bag on August 19th, 2005, 8:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
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judih
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Post by judih » August 18th, 2005, 7:01 am

an honest exploration of a subject.

don't find any lines crossed except language like "i'd nail her" which to me is chauvinist and crude, but still, part of the vernacular.
We do, after all, live in a chauvinist society, and you are using a chatty tone of voice.

Not sure what the problem is, except for the subject matter which is probably in the 'uh, uh, nope' category of the site that refused this essay.

judih

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Zlatko Waterman
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Post by Zlatko Waterman » August 18th, 2005, 10:00 am

Dear RB:


As a former teacher savvy to the reactions of school management, I'd advise you not to circulate this piece ( or put it conspicuously on the Internet), if in fact you are a teacher and want to hold on to your employment.

Why? In the US the tolerance for pedophilia or the slightest expression of appreciation for a pedophile's point of view ( including praise for the sexuality of minors) is absolute zero. Included in that tabu is the expression of the esthetic glories of underage females and children of either sex.

You can be eaten alive by the jaws of public opinion faster than you can say Jack Robinson if you are a teacher or anyone else subjected to routine public scrutiny.

I had two friends fired merely for meeting young girls in their offices
after hours.

Just a word from a hardened old political correctness battlefield soldier.

--Zlatko

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Doreen Peri
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Post by Doreen Peri » August 18th, 2005, 12:58 pm

Well, being the mother of a gorgeous 12-year-old daughter, I'm not sure how to reply to this.

I'm not going to kick you off the board for posting it, though.

I think Zlatko's comment is a wise one, even though you're not in the US.

I only have one more comment .... Children are children. Adults are adults. And though all human beings have sexuality, for an adult to consider a child sexually arousing is just plain ...ummm.... how do I say it? Lemme think..... objectionable. There's probably a better word but I can't find one in my head or in my thesaurus.

To speak about it as if sexual desire for a child is acceptable, just because the child may look physically like an adult, doesn't make much sense to me. Are you trying to convince the reader that this is acceptable?

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Post by jimboloco » August 18th, 2005, 2:46 pm

i saw an interesting Italian movie on Indie channel once, can't remember the name, about a 15 year old girl who wanted to lose her virginity to her aunt's ex-boyfriend.

he demurred, of course, told her flat out "no." and she was physically attractive, well endowed already, yet would have these emotional outbursts of frustration that revealed her emotional immaturity.

he asked her, "why me?" and she said, it didn't matter, it could be anybody, he was just there.

so it was an exploration of the matter, yet with restraint and obvious boundaries.

now there are some old ladies who would look kinky in a kimono.
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Rat Bag
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Post by Rat Bag » August 19th, 2005, 8:36 am

hmmm, tabu huh. thanks for the heads up.

was just trying to fathom a topic in writing that i thought was good enough to share. i see now how the unscrupulous reader could disinterpret it. anyway, i'll say it my way, you say it yours. isn't it grand how language can be twisted so many ways.

i here you about the jaws of public opinion.
This is the centre of the universe.
My tribe is gathered around me.
Behold me.
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Zlatko Waterman
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Post by Zlatko Waterman » August 19th, 2005, 10:49 am

Dear RB:

AND . . .I should add, my comment isn't meant as any sort of esthetic evaluation of your writing. I merely mean to remind you that even the slightest mention of nubile, under-age girls ( or boys-- look at Rev. Father Shanley!) can be fatal to a teacher's ( particularly a male teacher's) career.

http://traditionalvalues.org/urban/one.php

Comments on the book by Douglas Montero on the site above are particuarly telling.

A quick check of the Web reveals that perceived teacher sexual "offenses" are dealt with rather harshly by school officials. In many of the cases I read, the teacher was involved with a fifteen-year-old. These are not JonBenet Ramsey horrors, but mostly younger teachers fondling teenagers.

Your piece is, as Judih said, honest and forthright.

It's simply not something I would show my principal, if I were you.


--Z

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Post by Lightning Rod » August 19th, 2005, 12:04 pm

you are unfortunately probably dead-on here Z

I guess we can be thankful that Nabokov wasn't a school teacher

for as hard as I have been trying to sell The Poet's Eye, I think if I was getting paid to do it it would be my worst nightmare because then I couldn't say what I goddamn well please like I can now.
"These words don't make me a poet, these Eyes make me a poet."

The Poet's Eye

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Post by Lightning Rod » August 19th, 2005, 12:33 pm

I don't have any compunction about talking about this subject.
As I recall, my first sexual fantasy about a school teacher was when I was in the first grade. I started school when I was five. There was a pretty young second grade teacher that I had a hopeless crush on. This was in the 1950's and the dresses were very Doris Day. Full and ankle length. I would see this second grade teacher on the playground as she supervised the kids. From my point of view she was quite tall and my fantasy was to be under her full yellow skirt walking around hidden between her long legs.

Oh yeah, my dream school teacher would have been Mary Kay Latourno
"These words don't make me a poet, these Eyes make me a poet."

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Zlatko Waterman
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Post by Zlatko Waterman » August 19th, 2005, 1:00 pm

Yes, LR:

There is strength and freedom in obscurity.

Having been "examined" ( as a result of intense scrutiny by the public at my job every day for over thirty years) on my beliefs, political and otherwise, the campaign buttons I wore to work, the signs I held at rallies, the glances I gave my lovely and (sometimes) intelligent young lady students-- having endured all this I say:

You can't be too careful, particularly in public schools.

For instance, it was alleged, "alleged" mind you in the local paper that a local basketball coach ( male) had been seen fondling some of his players ( female). The Arthur Miller "Crucible" group of witnesses was lined up and grilled, and the Crucible melted its intended "meltee."

His Michael Jordan Nikes must have scorched the floor and sent up twin plumes of smoke, he was ejected from his coaching job so fast. No tribunal ( except "auto-de-fe"), closed hearings, etc..

If there is one sure way to get fired from a public institution ( in this case a community college where I had worked for over twenty years), then bugger, or fondle, or missionary position a student.

One last:

A colleague who taught Philosophy took his students on a summer retreat to Nepal to study Buddhism and visit monasteries. It turned out afterward that this teacher, much-beloved by his students, with a fetching English accent and poise that only the English male possesses, a good-looking cuss-- had bedded down with a student on the icy mountain passes-- playing doubles in one sleeping bag.

The young lady in question ( age 19 by the way) had scruples after returning home from the karmic bodhisattva-ian magic of the holy Himalayan crags and screamed for Daddy.

Bingo, out went Professor Brit, a tenured full professor with twenty years service.

Safer to read under "B" in the Encyclopedia Brittanica, eh?


--Z

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