After Israel has left Gaza - (yikes)

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stilltrucking
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Post by stilltrucking » July 11th, 2006, 6:34 am

Exodus
If Passover is a festival of freedom, why is the Seder such a bloody affair? A holiday reading from Killing the Buddha: A Heretic's Bible. by Francine Prose

It is genocide without apology. And at the end of this dire prophecy come the most important sentence of all, the real beginning of what the rest of Exodus will so ferociously and zealously continue: the demarcation of difference, the establishment of a separation between Israel and the other peoples and tribes, the forging of an identity, the birth of a nation and all the exclusiveness that it will require: “But against any of the children of Israel shall not a dog move his tongue, against man or beast; that ye may know how the Lord doth put a difference between the Egyptians and Israel.”
http://www.killingthebuddha.com/dogma/exodus.htm


I am sure happy to find a sister-to-sister jam that I can participate in. In the chance that Anemone is right in bringing up the a-s word I thought I would bring it up. You know j I wonder about Jews who were raised among Jews. You know--- lived in Jewish neighborhoods, went to Jewish schools, and probably spent their whole lives surrounded by a cocoon of fellow Jews.

Not a hell of a lot of poor Jews in the United States, but thanks to crazy Mikes gambling compulsion I was one of the chosen few. When every body else in our neighborhood prospered and moved to the fashionable ghetto on Baltimore's northwest side my family remained behind. All the syngagoues were converted to other uses. SOme became churches one became a pool hall. The one my grandfather went to became a museum.
So we Tilles's were left behind. Surrounded by Micks, Wops, Pollock’s and African-Americans- I could always count on a fight. I wore my Jew chip on my shoulder always ready to challenge. But I have two brothers who never seemed to have a problem with it.

I think I would certify as an interested eyewitness to your accounts. I was eight years old when Israel was born. I remember the adults in my family were very happy but as I grew up none of them seemed very interested in going there. Israel just another foreign country not their homeland. The old country for them was not a so-called holy land. It was Russia, Lithuania and Poland.

Judi sometimes you seem to have a “poor little Israel” complex. We are so fortunate here in the USA to be surrounded by our “client states” while a sea of enemies on the other hand surrounds you. Oh sister we are all surrounded by a sea of enemies these days. You know the world is such a small place these days. This war has just started, we don’t know who will wake up today in a pile of smoke and ash. The 911 attacks took years of planning they say. Who knows what is coming down on any of us tomorrow?

I think Jews may be the most racist people on this planet. It all comes down to your mother’s mitochondrial DNA in the end. My uncle Chaim, going to get a gig as a cantor in Shul in Bethesda Maryland. His singing voice was beautiful but the Rabbi grilled him for hours about the matrilineal line in his family. And he in turn grilled his mother about her mother, and her mother’s mother and so on.
A Jew without Jews, without Judaism, without Zionism, without Jewishness, without a temple or an army or even a pistol, a Jew clearly without a home, just the object itself, like a glass or an apple.
Philip Roth
Deb, I still don’t know why you got your panty hose tied in a knot. Big fucking deal, a post got moved. You get pretty personal here. I think PR may be right. But J don't need anybody to defend her. She is an an artist and a poet, and she don't look back. to paraphrase a Bob Dylan song.
I hope this storm will blow over pretty soon. You are going after judi the way Pelerine used to go after me on litchicks.

Lets move on.

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judih
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Post by judih » July 11th, 2006, 7:06 am

hi Still,
Interesting quote, thanks.
You grew up in a lone-horse town as far as Jewish neighbours went - so did i. It never occurred to me that Israel was in my future - i was raised to think that Canada was the Promised Land.

But one sweet April in '78 found me here on vacation and that was that.
Orange blossoms and history in every citizen's eyes. Everyone had a story and an intense sense of living.

About the 'poor little Israel' thing that you suggested i was brandishing. It's not 'poor' but rather, busy. It's never quiet when you're constantly surrounded. And you're right, terrorism will strike anywhere these days, but we're used to it and it's part of our daily lives. At the Central Bus Station, train stations, stores, entrances to outdoor malls, movie theatres, and many etcs, we undergo security checks and have been undergoing them for many years. You've probably heard about security guards getting blown up while preventing a suicide-bomber from entering a mall or a train station. Well, i miss that in the U.S., where things will probably need to go there very soon in order to protect citizens.

So, life is hot everywhere, and that's true!
It's a boom rhapsody i'm hearing almost constantly these days, and that's part of the invisible side of Eyewitness, sound files.

Interesting times we live in.
Let us be the ones to say, enough with personal attacks, and let's talk about the issues.

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whimsicaldeb
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Post by whimsicaldeb » July 11th, 2006, 10:33 am

no! i'm not sorry i deleted because i deleted it only from this After Israel left Gaza thread. It is in the thread about the Dead Sea. Is it still not clear?
This is called organization, not censorship.
You deleted it even when the post had a clearly written, in bright blue, that said I wanted the post to stay in this thread as well as the other thread because I felt the information belonged in both.

You read that ~ and deleted it anyway.

"Is it still not clear?"

I disagree that you did not censor my post. I think you deleted my post out of bias, not for organization. Your organization wasn't needed or necessary because I had already put my note of explanation in bright blue at the head of the post in this thread.

I call that censorship.

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panta rhei
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Post by panta rhei » July 11th, 2006, 11:41 am

And Panta – all I have to say to you is: "Flower Bridge!" (in Cantonese)
very nice, deb, thanks -- i always value a nice tone of conversation and a respectful good-bye.

take care yourself... and may you dare to walk across bridges one day and pass the flowers in your hair as a welcome to those you meet on their way towards you. steps like these will ring louder than words wrapped in cantonese.

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Doreen Peri
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Post by Doreen Peri » July 11th, 2006, 11:54 am

We don't have censorship here, Deb.

Can't you just drop it?

Isn't it possible that judih didn't see your comment in blue and simply noticed that it was a duplicate post?

You've made it very clear that you're angry and you've taken the deletion of a duplicate post very personally, it seems to me.

After this, I'm very sure nobody will ever touch one of your posts again. Ever.

So, can't you just let it go and chalk it up as history and talk about the topic at hand instead?

I'd appreciate it if this argument would stop.

I hate conflict. I lived with it for 9 long years..... Marriage. Ugh.

My ex-husband used to chase me around the house and corner me in various rooms trying to get me to continue to argue with him. I'd leave, tell him, "You're right. Whatever. I don't want to argue" and he'd chase me down to confront me again and try to force me to argue.

I thought I was gonna end up in a nut house!

With all due respect to the points you keep making, I just wish you'd just let it go, OK?

And judih? - please don't touch her posts again. I know you won't after this.

Thanks...

Love & peace to all.

Also another apology for butting in again. I just don't like to see my friends fighting.

And I repeat... how the hell can we expect world peace if we can't have peace at home?

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panta rhei
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Post by panta rhei » July 11th, 2006, 12:06 pm

And I repeat... how the hell can we expect world peace if we can't have peace at home?
yes, doreen -- i totally agree.
it's a daily chance and challenge... but it's sure worth the try.

so let's try it, k?

"home peace" -- i'd like to do a jam on this topic one day!

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judih
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Post by judih » July 11th, 2006, 1:00 pm

You know what? If deb wants to post on my threads, she will.
If i want to post on her threads, i will.

If i post the same thing on two of her threads and i tell her that i'm doing it on purpose, but she tells me she sees no reason for it and hence deletes one of the posts, i'll respect it, cause it was her thread. And double postings are really not helpful anyway. That's my thought. That was my thought.

Sorry that deb took this so harshly. Still the issues stand. Valuable questions have been raised. There are lessons here for everyone.
Let us all learn. People can get on each other's nerves, but so what. We still live together. If there's a common aim, we must learn to take a deep breath and move on.

The aim here is bringing information to the light from a personal standpoint. That's the aim of this Eyewitness.

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Doreen Peri
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Post by Doreen Peri » July 11th, 2006, 1:33 pm

panta -
a PEACE JAM ... I've wanted to do this... can we do this???

what do you think, judih?

Anybody else? Peace Jam.. yes! Peace begins within.

------

Please do not delete this post. :shock:

just messin' wit ya! ;)

and yes, judih... "The aim here is bringing information to the light from a personal standpoint. That's the aim of this Eyewitness."

That's what this forum is for.

"There are lessons here for everyone."

"Valuable questions have been raised."

All so true.

love to all.

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judih
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Post by judih » July 11th, 2006, 3:33 pm

Dor, you've been talking Peace Jam for awhile.
Let's do it.

This post is off-topic. How i wish it was on topic.
The headlines are a mess.

never mind. Peace jam. Think Peace. Sending peaceful vibes to all who've contributed to this thread. i'm able to do this, not cause i 'started this thread' but because i'm fresh from t'ai chi and i have a renewed battery. Peace seems like such a fine notion.

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stilltrucking
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Post by stilltrucking » July 11th, 2006, 6:02 pm

I am fresh from two baked pies. Fresh apple and fresh cherry. It is summer time in Texas and the living is easy. Fresh fruits abound.

Back on topic,
The following from The San Antonio Express-News today 07112006.

Date line JERUSALEM. Rich Lawry's column.

Header
Israel's illusions of peace fizzle

--The end of illusions is always clarifying, but not always comforting. So a grim realism is the mood here in the wake of the uniateral Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip last year, which was met first by the election of a Hamas government to run the Palestinian Authority, and now by rocket attacks into Israel and a crisis over the kidnapping of an Israeli soldier.

Israel's withdrawal itself required the shattering of illusions. The Israi right had to give up its dream of a Greater Israel. The Israeli left had to abandon its dream of a negotiated peace with the Palestinians. Both were fantasies, but anyone who imagined that leaving Gaza would transform Palestinian politics of Israel's security for the better has watched those comforting notions sink as well.
I am skipping some grim details here. I wish I could find the article on line but no luck. I am typing this by hand so I don't know how many typos I have made so far. Waiting for my sister to call any minute now I will have to go

I am going to put the final sentence here and try and get back to the middle stuff
It's a good thing Israel is abondoning illusions. It can't afford them
I have been searching litkick archives for Levi's guestion.
Do we want peace?
No luck so far. It was an interesting question I thought. I would like to read the replies again. If you ever happen to run across it I would appreciate the link. Thanks.
Last edited by stilltrucking on July 11th, 2006, 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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whimsicaldeb
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Post by whimsicaldeb » July 11th, 2006, 6:08 pm

If i post the same thing on two of her threads and i tell her that i'm doing it on purpose, but she tells me she sees no reason for it and hence deletes one of the posts, i'll respect it, cause it was her thread. And double postings are really not helpful anyway. That's my thought. That was my thought.
First off Judih, I don't have the same authorization as you do to change or delete anyone postings, so I can't delete a post of yours ... even if I would want to. So it's not the same thing at all because we are not equals in this area.

So, it's easy to say you'd respect it if someone were to do it to you, when you know damn well they can't.

....

The post had two parts; the note and the details which consisted of the quotes from the magazine. I originally was gearing up to post them only in the Kibbutz thread but as I was gathering the quotes from the original Smithsonian article that I posted here in September of 05, I realized that I had originally wanted to post these same quotes here, in the Gaza thread back in September but I hadn't due time restraints.

That was in the back of my mind, when I came back unto S8 to post the quotes in the Kibbutz thread. And, after I posted - I realized I had come back into the Gaza thread instead. But that seemed right to me ... that these quotes were here too because I had originally wanted them here as well back in September of 2005. So it became a two part post. One part explanation of why I was posting such into an older post; and the other part the information I had originally wanted to post at that time, but hadn't.

And I wrote a note at the beginning of the post here in Gaza saying as such; posted it all and then went to the Kibbutz thread and posted that same quotes again ~ but without the note.

Judih then said: "deb posted something here (a double post) and i deleted it, but then i realized that she had added a message, so i'm quoting it here to respect her original intent. The rest of the post can be seen in Eyewitness reports in my thread on the Dead Sea and Kibbutz Ein Gedi."

I disagree with her actions.

I feel my post was fine as it was and didn't need editing.

For me, my posts are like mini works of art, or writings. The duplication of information I had in the two threads was intentional - not accidental. I was using the duplication of information between the two threads the way you would use a refrain between stanzas in a song, or a poem.

I came back …

And found my post … stripped … of it’s refrain.

...

Judih calles this organization, not censorship.
Doreen agrees

I still disagree and now call what happened ~ crap.

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whimsicaldeb
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Post by whimsicaldeb » July 11th, 2006, 6:13 pm

ps to panta ...

You're very welcome.

BTW ~ the first to do it is an original ...
all the rest is just ... cheap-ass copies.

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stilltrucking
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Post by stilltrucking » July 11th, 2006, 6:15 pm

Sounds like more of a flame than a eye witness report deb. Oh lordy I suppose we can't think about peace if there is no peace here on studio eight. Yep it was crap deb, do you think you will ever be able to shine it on? I hope so.

J
I posted something from the San Antonio Express-News on this string. Let me know if you find that Levi Ascher post I was talking about
gracias.

edit

Where is the
"Flower Bridge"?
Is that a post to studio eight?

Sorry WD I missed your short post in there. I know you were talking to panta but I wonder what it meant.

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panta rhei
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Post by panta rhei » July 12th, 2006, 3:15 am

still-t --

"flower bridge" in cantonese is "far kiu".
if your pronounce that out loud, you'll know what she meant to say.

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MrGuilty
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Post by MrGuilty » July 12th, 2006, 3:47 am

I don't kinow what to say to my Buddhist friends sometimes, they talk such a good game, which they ...
I wonder what H.H. The Dalai Lama would say ABOUT all this.

Well j i am off topic again

2 am and baby sister is spending the night, no sleep in sight

Panic attack,
E-R NE Methodist
so many gray heads on gurneys
tubes and wires
mass
liver
kidneys
what you say?
Her big toe nail painted red
I imagine a DOA tag tied to it.
Going to regret that thought

what the heck was this thread about anyway?
stilltrucking can't login again sorry about the sock puppet
I used to be smart

Free Rice

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