Dead Sea & Kibbutz Ein Gedi

Firsthand accounts from members around the world.
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judih
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Post by judih » July 10th, 2006, 1:16 pm

deb, are you discussing or trying to provoke a fight?

quote: "Yes, you do. But you still refuse to say that Kibbutz (yours included) have a part in it."

What are you talking about? Are you referring the water pipeline that until 2005 has been providing water to the country? Water for drinking, bathing and agriculture has been used by everyone, including this kibbutz. Has our water supply come from the main israeli pipeline (the only pipeline for many years?) Yes. Now we get our water from the desalination plant.


"In addition, why didn't you say all this that you're saying now, in the very beginning when I first asked? That was what I was asking about in my original posting. "

Why didn't i take the time to research different people and check out 20 sources before i posted a response to your post? Because i am no expert in this field. My work is teaching, my current business has been helping Special Ed kids pass their Matriculation exam which took place this morning, and learning takes time. Must you have instant responses? Is there no time for thinking, discussing, learning? Why do you interact with me here if you're not hoping for some thought. Thought takes time. Or is a response on Monday morning too long?

"Why did it take me posting all these other articles showing the connection of how kibbutzs and their agriculture are part of the cause of the Dead Sea's delcine?"

Why? Cause i went travelling through information to see where you were finding your articles and together with living life, i went in various directions and i shall continue to do so.
Information leads to information.

Right now, there is a treaty with Turkey to bring oil and water to Israel - a signed treaty but many nations are opposed and who knows if the treaty will be put into effect.

Every day is a different score here. There are neighbours to think about. We're not the U.S. with most of its country surrounded by its own member states. We are as small as Rhode Island (i believe that's a fair accessment - but i could be out a bit), surrounded by those who range from pure enemy to barely tolerant acquaintances.

Why do i take time to respond to your questions? Because it takes time!

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Post by Doreen Peri » July 10th, 2006, 3:54 pm

We interrupt this debate for a commercial news report.

Washington, DC - July 10th, 2006 –
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editor's note - Translation? nothing x nothing is nothing. Sorry.. lol that's the best the S8 site can do!!!

We thought we'd share this commercial news announcement on this thread because we thought it was newsworthy. We applaud Ms. Haggai for the recognition she so duely deserves.

___________

We now return programming to the regularly scheduled debate. Both sides will debate fairly and respectfully while informing the public of vital information.

Enjoy the program!

-Studio Eight dot TV Executive Services, Inc.

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panta rhei
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Post by panta rhei » July 10th, 2006, 4:15 pm

to the Studio Eight dot TV Executives:

i'm usually no fan of commercials, but this one was just great!
thanks, and please continue!

sincerely,
a silent, but faithful s8tv watcher

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stilltrucking
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Post by stilltrucking » July 10th, 2006, 6:13 pm

silent watcher
sea flower
so good to hear your watch

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whimsicaldeb
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Post by whimsicaldeb » July 10th, 2006, 6:44 pm

deb, are you discussing or trying to provoke a fight?
Apparently to provoke a fight – at least, that would seem to be the consensus of a not so silent 'loyal to S8' moniter.
quote: "Yes, you do. But you still refuse to say that Kibbutz (yours included) have a part in it." (Deb)

What are you talking about? Are you referring the water pipeline that until 2005 has been providing water to the country? Water for drinking, bathing and agriculture has been used by everyone, including this kibbutz. Has our water supply come from the main israeli pipeline (the only pipeline for many years?) Yes. Now we get our water from the desalination plant. (Judih)
Yes, that is what I'm talking about and yes that was what I asking about.

I feel that with me (or someone to) challenging - you would have never stated this on your own. To me, it had to come almost like pulling teeth.

And that was what the articles referenced to... The strong denial aspect they face from the Kibbutz concerning the issue of the declining Dead Sea. you are willing to say that you were once part of the problem.

As I can determine from your responses to me - they are telling the truth about the resistance that's present and presented from those living in a kibbutz.
"In addition, why didn't you say all this that you're saying now, in the very beginning when I first asked? That was what I was asking about in my original posting. " (deb)

Why didn't i take the time to research different people and check out 20 sources before i posted a response to your post? Because i am no expert in this field. My work is teaching, my current business has been helping Special Ed kids pass their Matriculation exam which took place this morning, and learning takes time. Must you have instant responses? Is there no time for thinking, discussing, learning? Why do you interact with me here if you're not hoping for some thought. Thought takes time. Or is a response on Monday morning too long? Judih
I can't interact with (nor do I want to) anyone who keeps changing things around at their whim and I can't have a conversation (not do I want to have one) or even a decent arguement with someone who twists things the way you do. (See my replies to you and panta in the other thread).

If you really need more examples - here they are:

Where did I imply that I was expecting you to be an 'expert in the field.' -- no where - A LIE I asked if you talked about it.

What makes you say that I'm asking for instant responses? no where - A LIE. A self imposed 'deadline' that you're passing off as me having 'made you.'

What does your being a special ed teacher have to do with the subject in this thread, or what I asking about - your celebration with the other kibbutz and my wanting to talk about kibbutz input into the decline of the dead sea? -- Nothing. It's just another diversion from the subject at hand.

--examples for this latest of yours ended

It's impossible to have a conversation with, or even a decent arguement with someone who does this - and you know that (probably very well) and that's why you do it.
"Why did it take me posting all these other articles showing the connection of how kibbutzs and their agriculture are part of the cause of the Dead Sea's delcine?" (deb)

Why? Cause i went travelling through information to see where you were finding your articles and together with living life, i went in various directions and i shall continue to do so.
Information leads to information.

Right now, there is a treaty with Turkey to bring oil and water to Israel - a signed treaty but many nations are opposed and who knows if the treaty will be put into effect.

Every day is a different score here. There are neighbours to think about. We're not the U.S. with most of its country surrounded by its own member states. We are as small as Rhode Island (i believe that's a fair accessment - but i could be out a bit), surrounded by those who range from pure enemy to barely tolerant acquaintances.

Why do i take time to respond to your questions? Because it takes time! (Judih)
I was looking for you to be up-front, open, and willing to talk about kibbutzen countributions (hows & whys) to the decline of the dead sea right from the very start. It surprised me that you didn't, you weren't (aren't).

Without the ready willininess to talk about it, specifically kibbutzen contributions to the problem, your responses comes across as deception tactics.

And (IMO) they still do.

Now back to the subject at hand ... the decline of the dead sea and kibbutzen contributions to the decline.

I agree with you about the tready information - it's good, but we have to wait and see if it works. I'm hoping it will. (I wonder ... if you hope for the same. At this point I have my doubts.)

However, the question I asked, and that I'm most interested in knowing the answer too is this one:

Currently, are there any environmental safeguards in effect at the Askelon SWRO Plant (yes or no); and if so could you provide a link to that information?

If you only have time, or the desire, to answer one question in this reply: please make it this one. Thank you.

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judih
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Post by judih » July 11th, 2006, 12:25 am

ah, deb, is everything a schoolyard fight?

You asked me why i was taking so long to answer your questions. You asked me why i didn't respond immediately with articles i found later.
I answered that it took time to look for information.

So quick to use the word 'lie' in capitals. You are acting as if i'm personally responsible for all world misunderstanding.

You don't understand something and i'm going to try to explain it again. Kibbutzim (the plural of kibbutz) are a part of this country just like any city, town, moshav or settlement. We in this country received water only from the national water carrier until just recently. (The national water carrier is the main water pipeline.) So, when you demand that i say that kibbutzim are responsible for the situation in this country, you are asking me to say that young boys are responsible for the world's problems. Young boys are a subset of the whole. Kibbutzim are a subset of the whole.

The Dead Sea is currently being diverted of water because of Jordan and Israel's treaty. The kibbutzim are part of Israel, yes. So is Tel Aviv and Be'er Sheva. If you were to come here and look at the country, you might begin to understand how it is. Till then, you don't see the whole picture. You continually to look at little aspects and think they are the whole.

Why don't i answer your questions? i do, but you don't hear me because you don't see that your questions are not the main issue.

You are not an eyewitness, but an interested onlooker. Perhaps you're not even interested anymore but are continuing this in order to continue a preconceived drama.

It sounds like that to me.
As for your pertinent question concerning environmental safeguards at the Ashkelon desalination plant, the only online reference i've found is the name of an article. I haven't yet found the article, perhaps i will.

Here's the name:
Einav,R and F. Kijuec (2003) Environmental aspects of a desalination plant in Ashkelon Desalination Plant

this was found in the bibliography of this site:
http://72.14.221.104/search?q=cache:9CG ... =clnk&cd=9

edit: Article found and posted here: http://www.studioeight.tv/phpbb/viewtop ... highlight=

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Arcadia
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Post by Arcadia » August 2nd, 2006, 1:42 pm

beautiful photos and interesting thread! I'll read it again with more time.

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