A f--ing hornets nest indeed. (deleted)

[tinkerjack]

"What seems clear at the moment is that America's most important ally doesn't have a voice in the inner circle.

Does the Israeli government really believe that they are America's most important ally?
Is that because G0d is on our side?

What ever happened to the secular state the Zionist pioneers envisioned? I thought it was founded as a secular state. But I am not sure.

Herzl proposed a practical program for collecting funds from Jews around the world by a company to be owned by stockholders, which would work toward the practical realization of this goal. (This organization, when it was eventually formed, was called the Zionist Organization.) He saw the future state as a model social state, basing his ideas on the European model of the time, of a modern enlightened society. It would be neutral and peace-seeking, and of a secular nature.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... Herzl.html

I remember 1948 pretty good. I was about 7-1/2 years old and I was wondering why all the adults in my family were so happy
One of my uncle's telling me to remember the day. So I remembered the day.




This is the holiest site in Israel
at least to me it is.

I wish them well. I truly do. I wish Palestine well too. I am nothing if not a well wisher.

[mnaz]

thanks for your thoughts on this, jack.

maybe i'm just naive, considering how violent this conflict has been at times. but i really wish the israeli government would at least continue to make a credible effort at negotiation . . . at least try to make some reasonable compromises, especially about jerusalem.

(well, at least what I would consider reasonable . . . like . . . wasn't jerusalem supposed to be an international city, for example?)

[stilltrucking]

For what it is worth:
RE: East Jerusalem

Following the post-1948 division of Jerusalem into east (Transjordan-controlled) and west (Israeli-controlled), from 1948 to 1967, Jews were denied any access to their holiest sites in Jerusalem and dozens of synagogues were decimated by the Jordanian army. After the city was reunited in 1967, the three religions of Abraham--Judaism, Christianity, and Islam--were allowed access to their respective holy sites. Under Israeli rule, each religion has been allowed to oversee the management of its own holy sites.

http://www.sixdaywar.co.uk/gloria-repor ... mpared.htm

Levi says Philip Roth is an over rated author, maybe so but I like this bit a lot.

A Jew without Jews, without Judaism, without Zionism, without Jewishness, without a temple or an army or even a pistol, a Jew clearly without a home, just the object itself, like a glass or an apple.

I am not that sentimental about the Holy Land anymore. The only part of Israel that I care about is a kibbutz called Nir Oz The "Holy Land" has become a brand name copy righted by the Israeli government.

It is all so personal to me Mark. It is hard for me to remain objective. It seems to me that Israel is becoming a theocracy. The ultra orthodox Jews and their political parties seem to dominate the Knesset. No doubt Israel faces a demographic dilemma. The ultra orthodox Jews are very fruitful and good multipliers maybe they can out breed the Palestinian women.

I don't know what happened to tinker jack, but I would like to believe that he and the rest of my missing family spent their golden years in Nir Oz.