The Democratic Party's Internal Dilemma

[roxybeast]

Well, folks, realize it's been a while, but weighing back in here. This is a discussion between your loyal columnist and another Democratic party Capitol Hill insider on the direction of the Party this election season:

"The Democratic Party's Internal Dilemma"
B. Isbell - October 2007

All I can say is WAY TO GO PETE STARK!!!

Comments on the floor of Congress regarding the Schip children's health care vote and the war:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhK7vdDEMFY

We need a couple hundred more like minded Congresspersons, ... the elections are coming!!!

Peace,
B
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B:

I appreciate your point of view, but have to disagree. I've been in
political campaigns where extremists were involved, and the most effective strategy for the opponents of the extremists is just to show their extremism and avoid getting stampeded as voters rush for the exits. Back then, it was the John Birch Society that was fielding candidates and attacking all non-extremists. Now, it's Stark claiming Bush wants soldiers killed for a Caligula-like amusement and MoveOn accusing the Army's best general of betraying his country.

As I see it, Stark is even more of a bloody idiot than "wide stance"
Larry Craig, and along with his fellow idiots at MoveOn.org is doing
everything possible to bring about a Republican victory in 2008. They could not be doing this more effectively if they were being advised by Karl Rove.

I don't know where this suicide impulse comes from, but Stark and
MoveOn should know that victory lies in persuading former Bush voters, Republicans and independents, and that the best way to alienate them is to say stupid and repulsive things.

If Stark were to apologize or resign and MoveOn to apologize or
dissolve, it would do us all an enormous service. The function of an apology is that it would at least provide some evidence of cognitive functions beginning to re-appear. Right now, it seems to me that their viscera are in complete control.

Sorry if this offends, but I think you can tell I am more than a
little ticked-off at Stark and MoveOn.

Rick
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Rick:

This is theatre. Is it effective politics on Capitol Hill ... NO. Does it serve as a rallying cry or motivating speech to a big portion of the left's electoratal base ... YES, and particularly to students and younger voters, who haven't historically voted in large numbers. If we can get them out to the polls in larger numbers fired up to vote out the Republicans GOOD. Is it really going to harm efforts on Capitol Hill towards a compromise on S-chip or troop withdrawal ... most likely won't have any real effect on the Hill, other than perhaps that some members will castigate Stark as eccentric. I don't agree that Bush just likes to "blow stuff up," but I do agree strongly with the sentiment, one that I've been expressing for quite a while now, that it seems idiotic to spend 400 billion on the war and not have 10 million to spend on American children's health care, or programs for education or the poor or a myriad of other necessary and worthy programs designed to improve the lives of Americans and make their children's futures much, much better.

I'm thankful that any Congressman, even an eccentric one, finally has the guts to express this view on the Hill. Wish more would.

B
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Rick:

One last thought here. Frankly, the vast majority of voters want this war to end and most of them want withdrawal NOW. I actually agreed with MoveOn that General Petraus, despite his honorable service which no one questions, did betray us. The reality is that his speech was designed to prolong a situation that the vast majority of Americans have made absolutely clear that they do not want prolonged. He did not come to Congress with any intent to express a plan to secure the quickest withdrawal strategy. He was subject to huge pressure from the White House and the right to express support for their views.

The real mistake was the left backing off the sentiment expressed by MoveOn, just folding at the first blush of criticism, rather than digging in their heels and fighting like hell for the views of the majority of the electorate. Now, folks wonder if the Democrats are actually listening to voters and even if they vote for them if they actually are going to withdraw. Hillary and Barack are now expressing views that we may be there for a long long time, that is not what voters want at all.

I think Americans are quite frustrated that no one in either party is listening to them and trying to end this war NOW. Don't be fooled by poll numbers showing Hillary and Barack in front, that's because we see them as the most-electable in a general election, not because on this particular issue they are truly expressing the anger of the electorate on this, ... they are certainly better choices than any of the Republicans, but they are going to screw up royally if they get in and don't take immediate action to withdraw and to actually structure withdrawal in a way to get the job done fairly quickly.

The reality is that Bush just keeps creating a bigger and bigger mess. Now the Soviets are building NEW nuclear weapons and siding with Iran. Cheney has always been after Iran in my view as I predicted four years ago was part of their plan. Americans are frustrated that oil prices are now $90 a barrel, but we control Iraq and they owe us for bailing them out. If this was a war about oil, we are just idiots. From a foreign policy view, we ignore real threats and focus on imaginary ones. They have run up a absolutely huge deficit, after Clinton had largely eliminated it, their pro-business policies have gone too far and now we have a huge lending crises. They don't really give a damn about the environment contrary to the interests of our children and future generations. We now have the largest trade deficit ever with China which leaves us economically vulnerable. They allow and encourage US corporations to move their businesses offshore and don't implement any standards to restrict them from importing products back into the US which don't meet US safety standards (eg, lead paint in Toys) while sacrificing US workers and domestic tax revenues. Frankly, they have screwed up so badly, it is not "enough" to just be nice as you suggest. I feel sorry for whoever is elected, hopefully a Democrat, because they will be inheriting a huge economic and policy disaster.

We don't need to convince Republicans to vote Democratic to win, what we need is new voters, younger voters, and independent voters, ... and frankly, nothing Move On or Rep. Stark has said or done is going to stop those folks from voting Democratic. It's sad that the Democratic party doesn't have the balls or foresight to vigorously defend well-deserved criticism of the President.

Frankly, I hope that your Democratic friends on the Hill start spreading the message and stop trying to placate right-wingers.

B
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B:

It's suicide-by theatre, but it is suicide all the same. Democrats should
not pander to left extremists, as is their custom, because they will--as is also their custom--lose huge numbers of everyone-from left to right, from Democrats to independents to Republicans starting to think for themselves, and all of those people will be persuaded that Democrats cannot be trusted to wield the levers of power. Bus has finally gotten these people to the point of doubting Republican suitability to wield the levers of power, and Stark and MoveOn are brain-addled twits to risk making them re-think and conclude that Democrats are even more irresponsible.

Rick
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Rick:

Do you really think independents don't want the war to end, are anti-withdrawal, or think we aren't spending too much on the war?

I've yet to see ANY poll to the contrary. Find me one ... any. So how is expression of, and vigorous defense of, these views in any way harmful or contrary to the interests of the party. It's just a bunch of caving-in crap to think that we need to back off at the risk of pissing off those in the middle. What we need to do is not be a bunch of cowards when it comes to defending our correct views. Which, by the way, are the views of the vast majority of voting age Americans. We need better marketing, not a different message.

B
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Studio 8ers -- we'd love to have your comments on the foregoing discussion ... how do you see the issues & what are your opinions.

Leave your comments below ... let's have an honest and open discussion about which approaches you favor this election season.

[roxybeast]

This morning CBS News Sunday Morning reported that Washington Post voter polls show:

81% of American voters support expanding the S-chip program.

74% of American voters would actually support increased taxes
to fund expansion of the S-chip program.

67% of American voters would support reducing funding of the war.

60% of American voters believe that the war was not justified.

Only more support for the proposition that both parties are ignoring the will of the American voting public.