How to Be A Republican!
To be a Republican today you need to believe:
1. Jesus loves you AND shares your hatred of homosexuals and Hillary Clinton.
2. Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when Bush's Daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with him, and a bad guy when Bush needed a "we-can't-find-Bin-Laden" diversion.
3. Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is Communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.
4. The United States should get out of the United Nations, AND our highest national priority is enforcing U.N. resolutions against Iraq.
5. A woman can't be trusted with decisions about her own body, but multinational drug corporations can make decisions negatively affecting all mankind without regulation.
6. The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in speeches, while simultaneously slashing veterans' benefits and combat pay.
7. If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won't have sex.
8. A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle our longtime allies, then demand their cooperation and money.
9. Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy, but providing health care to all Americans is socialism. And further that HMO's and insurance companies always have the best interests of the public at heart.
10. Global warming and tobacco's link to cancer are junk science, but creationism should be taught as valid science in our schools.
11. A President lying about an extra-marital affair is an impeachable offense, but a President lying to enlist support for a war in which thousands die and which costs the country trillions of dollars is sound policy.
12. Government should limit itself to the powers named in the Constitution, which apparently includes banning gay marriages, torturing detainees, arresting US citizens and denying them access to legal advice, and censoring the Internet and domestic spying, but does not apparently include a right to privacy, even in your own home or body.
13. The public has a right to know about Hillary's cattle trades, but George Bush's driving record is none of our business.
14. Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a conservative radio host. Then it's an illness and you need our prayers for your recovery (so that you can then turn around and use your radio platform to bash the apparent Republican nominee).
15. Support for "Executive Privilege" in perpetuity for every Republican ever born, who will be born, or who might be born.
16. What Bill Clinton did in the 1960's is of vital national interest, but what Bush did in the '80's is irrelevant.
17. Support for hunters who shoot their friends and blame them for wearing orange vests similar to those worn by the quail. (On this subject, check out this totally hilarious song! Vice-Presidential Blues by B. Isbell at http://www.isound.com/beth_isbell)
18. Spending mega-trillions on war and mortgaging our children’s futures into perpetuity is sound fiscal policy, but funding things like basic health-care for our children and poor for less than 1/10 of 1% of the same price would simply cost too much.
19. Our party is the champion of fiscal responsibility, even though we can’t balance the national budget, when even Bill Clinton and Democrats could figure out how to do so.
20. Actually enforcing drug and product safety regulations to prevent all of the rampant prescription drug and dangerous toy recalls is an impediment to the greedy profiteering necessary to fund Republican political campaigns, so we should slash those agencies’ budgets even further.
And finally, we can significantly reduce unemployment by allowing US corporations to outsource American jobs (but only if employees are Democrats) to countries employing child labor, slave labor, or forcing workers to endure dangerous and unsafe workplaces.
Remember: Real friends don't let friends vote Republican!
Humor (or is it?) - How to be a Republican!
Moderator: roxybeast
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roxybeast
- Posts: 720
- Joined: November 28th, 2006, 1:00 am
- Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
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My Debate With A Conservative Friend About This Post
Interesting, my Parents are Republicans and don't believe any of those slanted things. Personally, I'm an Independant, cause I like to think and decide all by myself........... but interesting in a kind of brainless follow the Democratic "Believe all we say," kind of way. Typical............ T
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So then who are you supporting this election season for President?
As to the list, ... I suppose it is a matter of perspective to an extent, but really, prove anything on the list untrue if you think it really is. Or, come up with your own better list.
Peace,
B
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At this point I'm leaning towards John McCain but am truly uncommitted still.......... as to the rest, since I'm not busy today, here you go. I'll respond to each point in your liberally biased original post:
1. Jesus loves you AND shares your hatred of homosexuals and Hillary Clinton.
Response: You know I was raised by Evangilical Christian Conservatives and I was never taught this by anyone. This is just Hateful. Damn Christians! They shouldn't have any rights!
2. Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when Bush's Daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with him, and a bad guy when Bush needed a "we-can't-find-Bin-Laden" diversion.
Response: Yeah good thing Clinton never grabbed him when he could or deal with it as he was dismantling our Nation's Military and Intelligence gathering services. That is a Fact.
Man, got to mention Reagan, Bush and Cheney! in ONE twisted hard spun statement. Not Bad
3. Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is Communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.
Response: Commies Vs. International Harmony. That's sweet. A nicely contrived statement. That is Pure Political spin.
4. The United States should get out of the United Nations, AND our highest national priority is enforcing U.N. resolutions against Iraq.
Response: I agree we should get out of the UN. It's the planet's biggest joke. The second part is just silly.
5. A woman can't be trusted with decisions about her own body, but multinational drug corporations can make decisions negatively affecting all mankind without regulation.
Response: Again, Everyone Must Believe exactly like you do on this issue..... The Party of Inclusion. Yeah. When did we lose the right in this Country to disagree on issues? Shouldn't we all still love and support each other precisely when we disagree the most to make a strong Country?
6. The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in speeches, while simultaneously slashing veterans' benefits and combat pay.
Response: Forgive my passion concerning this subject. My Father died while still in uniform service of this Country and my oldest Son just got out after 10 years. He was in Saudi on 911 and served a tour in Iraq. If you truly believe the Far Left Rhetoric of "We support the Troops but not the war" is comforting to our men and women currently risking their lives you are very mistaken. ASK THEM if that makes them feel supported. If PINK and Cindy Sheehan make them feel supported. I know what my Son and all his friends would say........ NO! Those of us who are willing to give our lives, shed are blood, see loved ones die ARE VERY KEENLY AWARE of the Sacrifices made. You can't pay them enough. Where was all this Military support in the 90's when Clinton was BUTCHERING the Military and our intelligence gathering facilities? I must admit I have a little trouble with Democrats even opening their mouths about this. NOW, you want to spin this like the Democrats are the ones who truly care for the Military? Tell the Marines that in Berkley! and any troops living near San Fransisco about how supported they feel.
7. If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won't have sex.
Response: This ones a Joke right? Intentionally? Nobody I've ever spoken to actually believes this. This has always been the way the Far Left has chosen to try and bend the issue. Pure Politcal Spin.
8. A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle our longtime allies, then demand their cooperation and money.
Response: I love the way the Left harps about this for years and has NEVER come up with any solutions..... EXCEPT, Blame Bush, Hate Bush. EVERYTHING is his Fault!..... If someone sneaks up behind me and hits me with a Bat should I have to Beg France's Permission and tolerance before I respond or defend myself? Who is really more arrogant, US or uninvolved Countries that demand we ask permission and beg tolerance?
9. Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy, but providing health care to all Americans is socialism. And further that HMO's and insurance companies always have the best interests of the public at heart.
Response: Ironic. We are basically in Control of Iraq. If we we were NOT providing Health Care for it's inhabitants the Far Left would be screaming there heads of because we're NOT! (And You know it!) Ah, we love to Hook the WAR to everything don't we? Look how many statements in these writing mention it or and outcome of it. No Political Spin here, is there?
10. Global warming and tobacco's link to cancer are junk science, but creationism should be taught as valid science in our schools.
Response: I guess nobody should have the right to believe differently than others. This statement is one of those Intellectual far left statements. All Us Smart, educated people know the full truth about these things and you Christians and your creationism ideas are just quaint and stupid. You must believe as we do! So that we can then Include you in our party of inclusion!
11. A President lying about an extra-marital affair is an impeachable offense, but a President lying to enlist support for a war in which thousands die and which costs the country trillions of dollars is sound policy.
Response: So, when Clinton and his top aides said, many times, that Saddam has got WMDs it was Gospel truth and shortly later Bush says it, then he's "Lying to enlist support for a war that will kill Thousands and costs trillions." C'mon, you can find Clinton tellin' it hard on Video by searching the Net. Everyone thought he had them. The Congress voted on it. GET OVER THE BUSH HATE. It's ugly bitterness that demeans the Democratic Party.
12. Government should limit itself to the powers named in the Constitution, which apparently includes banning gay marriages, torturing detainees, arresting US citizens and denying them access to legal advice, and censoring the Internet and domestic spying, but does not apparently include a right to privacy, even in your own home or body.
Response: Yep, we had the SECRET "Torturing the Detainees" meeting. Again, Can we find ANY more topics to blend together in order to get even more spin on this one. My neck hurts from twisting to read this one. And uses the word "Apparently" Yeah, right.
13. The public has a right to know about Hillary's cattle trades, but George Bush's driving record is none of our business.
Response: uh, What? Who gives a damn? Just more of that HATE Bush idealogy. SPIN.
14. Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a conservative radio host. Then it's an illness and you need our prayers for your recovery (so that you can then turn around and use your radio platform to bash the apparent Republican nominee).
Response: Boy Talk Show Hosts just scare the hell outta Democrats, don't they? wonder why?....... Maybe because they are unhappy with the SPIN that the Talk Show Hosts put on the issues! They don't like that brand of spin. It's okay for them, but not those Damn Talk Show Hosts. THEY DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO DISAGREE WITH US. EVERYONE MUST CONFORM TO THE WAY WE BELEIVE........ Yeah, the Party of Inclusion (as long as you believe exactly as we do.) If Not, The Hate and Venom will spew forth! NONE of the Conservative, Republican or Christian people I know cut ANY slack to Limbaugh for his actions. All of them abhorred it. Wonder why the Left can't let it go?....... could it be they truly love to hate? I'm beginning to believe that.
15. Support for "Executive Privilege" in perpetuity for every Republican ever born, who will be born, or who might be born.
Response: Uh, yeah...... right. I don't really have to go into this, do I? What a Joke, Jeez.
16. What Bill Clinton did in the 1960's is of vital national interest, but what Bush did in the '80's is irrelevant.
Response: Again, never heard anyone actually say this. Helps out with all that Bush Hate, Tho.' What Clinton did in the 90's dismantling our Military and intelligence gathering facilities has become very Relevant. A cleartly Spun Democratic statement.
17. Support for hunters who shoot their friends and blame them for wearing orange vests similar to those worn by the quail. (On this subject, check out this totally hilarious song! Vice-Presidential Blues by B. Isbell at http://www.isound.com/beth_isbell)
Response: Yeah, don't we love to hate and ridicule. Especially if we can direct both at the same Republican Guy! (ok, the initial incident was funny!)........ over two years later tho'....... now it's just to ridicule. Ah, the Loving Party of Inclusion.
18. Spending mega-trillions on war and mortgaging our children’s futures into perpetuity is sound fiscal policy, but funding things like basic health-care for our children and poor for less than 1/10 of 1% of the same price would simply cost too much.
Response: Now this is the perfect Far Left Spun Statement. WAR and Mortgaging our Children's Future Versus cheap health care for the "Poor and Children." Good God, a blind, deaf, and dumb moron could read the spin here.
19. Our party is the champion of fiscal responsibility, even though we can’t balance the national budget, when even Bill Clinton and Democrats could figure out how to do so.
Response: In case it slipped your mind the world changed on 911. We don't live in the heady camelot days of Clinton (Joke) Oh, the Republicans have screwed up here in my opinion, but I also recognize where some of those deep military cuts Clinton made have taken us. I guess you guys are right, better to be rich than safe! You like my spin on that?
20. Actually enforcing drug and product safety regulations to prevent all of the rampant prescription drug and dangerous toy recalls is an impediment to the greedy profiteering necessary to fund Republican political campaigns, so we should slash those agencies’ budgets even further.
Response: "An impediment to the GREEDY Profiteering NECESSARY to fund Republican campaigns." That's right absolutely Necessary. C'mon now, how much hate can you truly have in your heart? Those Fuckers should be Shot! JEEZ!
And finally, we can significantly reduce unemployment by allowing US corporations to outsource American jobs (but only if employees are Democrats) to countries employing child labor, slave labor, or forcing workers to endure dangerous and unsafe workplaces.
Response: Yeah, that's it Only Child and Slave Labor Countries! We had a meeting it's all decided! JEEZ, My neck hurts again from the twist. Who writes this stuff? Howard Dean?
In Conclusion, these statements seem full of several things to me. First, of course written to get the very utmost of political spin on them. Second, full of hate and bitterness to those who do not believe exactly as they do........ I do find it intensley ironic (and just plain wrong) that the "Party of Inclusion" sure has turned into the party of "We hate you if your different from us and we'll spew hate and venom at you every chance we get," Party.............. Now that I'm done, I could write you the same thing about many Far Right papers I've seen. On some issues I'm so far left my parents are astounded and on other issues I'm so far right that Democrats would hang me. I am SICK of both Parties and feel the Country would be better served with a third, fourth or fifth party that could actually compete in our current process. Check the Title, Humor (or is it?)....... to many people this crap is gospel. They believe it hook line and sinker......... The Democratic party has become full of hate and bitterness and I can't be associated with that................. Be Safe, T
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You do seem to have some very strong built in biases against Democrats, so not sure the independent label truly fits, but guess you would actually have to outline what you do believe to figure it out.
Democrats are inclusive. We believe in protecting your rights to be free from discrimination, your rights to privacy in your home and personal lives (assuming no harm to anyone else). Item #1 is sort of representative of this--we think such folks ought to have equal rights, and while you personally were not taught this, it is spouted non-stop by an overwhelming majority conservative radio hosts, evangelical pastors, and right-wingers. As Democrats, we say love & let love.
On the military front, you can't one up me here. My dad was a colonel in the army and all of my uncles and grandfathers were in all of the services and have fought in every war this century. You later state that you disagree with the Republicans spending so much money on the military that they can't balance the budget, but it's so much worse than that - they have spent 4-500 billion on the war, with estimates that the cost will soon exceed a trillion dollars - think about how big that number is - a number which tax revenue and other govt fees, among other revenue streams, will have to be paid by you and your children and their children, etc. At the same time, they have actually slashed military pay and veteran benefits. The soldiers injured in this war are in many cases not getting full and proper medical care. That's a fact proven by countless investigations, including by the GAO.
Take a position or not -- do you believe that we should have attacked Iraq, and why? We did not have any legal basis to do so under international law, ... no wonder most of the rest of the world, including a large number of our "allies" see us as the aggressor in this action. I strongly believe in going after the terrorists, so long as they actually are terrorists. And that does seem to be the rub.
As far as Iraq, you realize of course that the current government has stolen more money from US government contracts that Saddam, ... and that Condoleeza Rice even admitted this was a problem in testimony before Congress. If you truly want an "independent" perspective, I would suggest that you watch PBS and programs like Now & Frontline. You might also try reading the major papers from other countries. And of course, just because you don't think the vast majority of European and the rest of the world's citizens should hate Bush, the fact is that they do and the fact that they do so vigorously really does hamper our ability to gain the cooperation necessary to accomplish any of our legitimate foreign policy objections. You can't just blow everybody up, at some point you do actually need to talk, negotiate & cooperate.
I would suggest that you first figure out what you do actually believe and then compare your list to the views of all the parties & candidates.
Lots of love,
B
PS-As to creationism, it's just not valid science (period). I'm christian and believe that the Bible is mostly literal, but there are also parables. The well respected science show NOVA examined the whole issue very thoroughly and determined that there was absolutely no historical or scientific support for the creationist view. The reality is that humans did evolve from other species (as did every other species on this planet) and that they have actually found evidence of every major species evolution transformation. I square this with my Christian beliefs by knowing that the creation story is a parable, but not literal truth. You can also view each "day" in Genesis as actually being an "age" lasting many thousands of years, and there is support that the words in the original ancient hebrew text were actually meant be read in this way.
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Actually, I have read both the Republican Platform and The Democratic Platform. That is why I'm an Independant. "Built in Bias" I would disagree. My Bias of the Democrats is based on what I have observed and heard. Inclusive ONLY if you believe as they do. Otherwise the Anti Hate will spew forth. How many examples do you want? Go on the web anywhere. Love and let love? That is not what I've heard since 2000. It's been Hate Bush and Republicans first, then devise some reasons. Obsurd. Lives Vs. Money? I'll take the Lives everyday. I'm not trying to one up anyone. I just refuse to forget what our People have sacrficed for us. Of Course we've become the Agressor, we were attacked. Any other way is Death. Like most liberals you still believe PBS is neutral and independant. I don't think so. You never spoke to the clear hate and venom in those remarks, nor did you address the overwhelmingly obvious Political spin built into the way the statements were given. That too is fairly typical of Liberals. Skim over the wrong and hate filled things we've said over the last 10 years. Ignore that and just keep saying we love everyone....... I think Hitler said it best. "It doesn't matter if it's the truth JUST keep saying it over and over and the people will believe." You talk about Bias........ Read those statements over again word by word and convince me there not ridiculously full of BIAS. Typical Political spin, no different from the Talk Show Hosts who are so condemned by the Left. The SPIN is the same, just in different directions......... Oh I've thought it all out, I just disagree with you and believe the Far Left is living in a Dream World. The World we all wish really was, but at the same time they preach hate at any kind of Christian/Conservative Values. I believe in Evolution as well, Evolution within a species, NOTHING else has ever been "proven." And proven means more than "Most Scientists believe it." Given time Dogs will become smarter dogs and adapt to their enviroment, they will NOT evolve in to Cats or any other species. Course, I'm sure the "Intellectual, educated Far Left" would look down their disdainful noses at such thought. I don't intend to attempt to prove or disprove Biblical idealogy. I do believe people in America have the right to believe seperately from me and I don't attempt to tell them what they can and can not teach their children. How Presumptive and judgmental. What else will the Left tell us what to believe and how to, and what we can teach our Children. Talk about invading my Privacy. In my Home........... What they claim and what they preach are two different things. I certainly since 1990 have felt no Inclusion by the Democrats. Mostly the attempt to tell me what and how to believe on a variety of subjects and the clear message that I'm a Hate Monger if I don't agree with them............ The Independents are growing and there is a reason. What I've given you is a large part of it........... Good Debate, sometimes I love this stuff....... sometimes it all seems to tedious............... T
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You keep making this "inclusive" comment - the nature of political parties is that the folks that join support all or most of their platform, or at least think they will do a better job that their opponents of protecting the things that matter the most to the members of that party. So really this criticism is just silly nonsense. Of course, Democrats aren't "inclusive" of a lot of Republican ideas, but neither are Republicans "inclusive" of most Democratic ideas. So what.
The reality is that Democrats do believe in equal rights for all citizens. Republicans would "exclude" certain groups based on disagreements about their morals or behavior. You seem to believe in equal rights for all citizens, so I don't quite know why you haven't noticed this before.
Wow, lives v. money. It's just not that simple is it? You've avoided addressing whether you think our attacking Iraq was justified or even whether we had the legal right to do so under international law. If we sacrifice lives for a cause not justified, is that proper or fair to those families who lose sons and daughters? At some point, money does matter. Government cannot just spend a trillion or even 500 billion dollars without collecting the revenues -- from US - that's you and me Tory & our kids. I guess the Republican view is that since we can never raise taxes, we just have to slash budgets of agencies designed to protect your and my and our children's safety or slash benefits designed to help the poor get back on their feet so they can actually pay taxes, or provide children with health insurance, or protect the environment so that our children can actually enjoy the planet and have clean air and water too. Or worse yet, that they can just simply have the Fed print a lot more money, which further devalues the dollar in the world market - don't know if you've notice lately that if you travel outside the US our dollars buy less than 1/2 of what they used to buy. This also causes us to have even bigger trade deficits, which all lead to economic recession. Oops, looks like our current Republican leadership has done exactly that - put the country into a recession. Perhaps you've noticed all of the foreclosures lately and that you have to work harder just to get by. Personally, I and most Democrats believe we need a more balanced approach to governmental expenditures - one that adequately secures our national defense against actual threats while at the same time improving the lives of citizens and their children now & in the future. You can't just spend 500 trillion on defense & ignore everything else.
You should stop quoting Hitler, it is quite unbecoming intellectually.
I'm glad you think evolution is valid science. I think it's beyond dispute.
If you have noticed, I have not accused you of being a Hate-Monger. I do however think that you don't have all the true facts necessary to make a proper informed decision, and seem to be far too trusting of the current government and leadership. If other Democrats accuse you of such, I'm sorry, but quoting Hitler certainly doesn't help matters.
I hear a lot of conservatives spout that PBS is biased. What that tells me is that you don't really watch NOVA or Frontline or NOW or Bill Moyers or any of their other excellent programming. If you regularly watch for 6 months and can prove to me after that time that they actually are biased, then I'll at least give your opinion here credence.
LOL,
B
And PS--They have actually proven scientifically that creationism or intelligent design is just bad science. Here's a link to the full program which includes the scientific evidence on evolution, including inter-species evolution:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/program.html
Watch the whole thing (108 minutes) - ie ALL the chapters,
then we can discuss what you still disagree with.
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I’m stunned you took the Far Left Intellectual tact with the "Silly Nonsense" approach, What I find bothering is the Claim made that The Democrats are the Party of Inclusion. If by that, they mean inclusion "if" you share are beliefs, then they are no more or less inclusive than the Republicans. But, we both know that's not what they intend. I see Hypocrisy in that statement when I see the hate that's spilled out whenever you disagree. I don't believe either Party is a party of inclusion. The Term "Inclusion" itself leads me to believe it means exactly that. Inclusion EVEN when some or all beliefs are different. OK, I agree the Hitler quote was over the top! Beyond Spin. Of Course calling our President Hitler would be even worse. Wouldn't it? Seems like someone in Democratic Leadership did just that not long ago. Of Course, we can look the other way when someone in our Party does anything like that. I watch NOVA fairly consistently, as well as, Bill Moyers from time to time. There's a book by Bernard Goldberg called "Bias." Very Interesting concerning documented cases of the subtle but deliberate left slant of the Major Media............. T
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It's not far left or far right or even slightly left or slightly right to acknowledge that no political party generally "includes" the beliefs of opposing political parties. What is it that you want the Democrats to be inclusive of anyway? I guess under your view there should be just one party ... but I think they actually had that in Russia a while back. (joking). Seriously, if you state a policy that you feel the Democrats ought to include in their platform that is presently not included, then we can examine and discuss it intellectually. Otherwise it's just a blind criticism without any real meaning or foundation.
I'm sure none of the Democratic leadership has called Bush Hitler. I'm sure there are folks who vote for or may claim to be Democrats who aren't in the Democratic leadership that might feel this way. See, e.g., the Zeitgeist movie. I'm not one of them. Nor are the party leaders.
Maybe some newspaper and TV media (other than FOX) does have a left leaning bias, but no more than Radio is way conservatively biased (it's hard to even name a left biased radio talk show and there are undisputedly 100s more conservative oriented talk shows). Further, FOX tv and a lot of magazines and even some newspapers lean right. Neither you nor I are going to solve any of this - it's all about money and ratings. If folks watch it, and buy the advertisers products, they'll keep doing it. It's just not true to blindly claim major media slants left.
Peace,
B
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So then who are you supporting this election season for President?
As to the list, ... I suppose it is a matter of perspective to an extent, but really, prove anything on the list untrue if you think it really is. Or, come up with your own better list.
Peace,
B
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At this point I'm leaning towards John McCain but am truly uncommitted still.......... as to the rest, since I'm not busy today, here you go. I'll respond to each point in your liberally biased original post:
1. Jesus loves you AND shares your hatred of homosexuals and Hillary Clinton.
Response: You know I was raised by Evangilical Christian Conservatives and I was never taught this by anyone. This is just Hateful. Damn Christians! They shouldn't have any rights!
2. Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when Bush's Daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with him, and a bad guy when Bush needed a "we-can't-find-Bin-Laden" diversion.
Response: Yeah good thing Clinton never grabbed him when he could or deal with it as he was dismantling our Nation's Military and Intelligence gathering services. That is a Fact.
Man, got to mention Reagan, Bush and Cheney! in ONE twisted hard spun statement. Not Bad
3. Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is Communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.
Response: Commies Vs. International Harmony. That's sweet. A nicely contrived statement. That is Pure Political spin.
4. The United States should get out of the United Nations, AND our highest national priority is enforcing U.N. resolutions against Iraq.
Response: I agree we should get out of the UN. It's the planet's biggest joke. The second part is just silly.
5. A woman can't be trusted with decisions about her own body, but multinational drug corporations can make decisions negatively affecting all mankind without regulation.
Response: Again, Everyone Must Believe exactly like you do on this issue..... The Party of Inclusion. Yeah. When did we lose the right in this Country to disagree on issues? Shouldn't we all still love and support each other precisely when we disagree the most to make a strong Country?
6. The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in speeches, while simultaneously slashing veterans' benefits and combat pay.
Response: Forgive my passion concerning this subject. My Father died while still in uniform service of this Country and my oldest Son just got out after 10 years. He was in Saudi on 911 and served a tour in Iraq. If you truly believe the Far Left Rhetoric of "We support the Troops but not the war" is comforting to our men and women currently risking their lives you are very mistaken. ASK THEM if that makes them feel supported. If PINK and Cindy Sheehan make them feel supported. I know what my Son and all his friends would say........ NO! Those of us who are willing to give our lives, shed are blood, see loved ones die ARE VERY KEENLY AWARE of the Sacrifices made. You can't pay them enough. Where was all this Military support in the 90's when Clinton was BUTCHERING the Military and our intelligence gathering facilities? I must admit I have a little trouble with Democrats even opening their mouths about this. NOW, you want to spin this like the Democrats are the ones who truly care for the Military? Tell the Marines that in Berkley! and any troops living near San Fransisco about how supported they feel.
7. If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won't have sex.
Response: This ones a Joke right? Intentionally? Nobody I've ever spoken to actually believes this. This has always been the way the Far Left has chosen to try and bend the issue. Pure Politcal Spin.
8. A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle our longtime allies, then demand their cooperation and money.
Response: I love the way the Left harps about this for years and has NEVER come up with any solutions..... EXCEPT, Blame Bush, Hate Bush. EVERYTHING is his Fault!..... If someone sneaks up behind me and hits me with a Bat should I have to Beg France's Permission and tolerance before I respond or defend myself? Who is really more arrogant, US or uninvolved Countries that demand we ask permission and beg tolerance?
9. Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy, but providing health care to all Americans is socialism. And further that HMO's and insurance companies always have the best interests of the public at heart.
Response: Ironic. We are basically in Control of Iraq. If we we were NOT providing Health Care for it's inhabitants the Far Left would be screaming there heads of because we're NOT! (And You know it!) Ah, we love to Hook the WAR to everything don't we? Look how many statements in these writing mention it or and outcome of it. No Political Spin here, is there?
10. Global warming and tobacco's link to cancer are junk science, but creationism should be taught as valid science in our schools.
Response: I guess nobody should have the right to believe differently than others. This statement is one of those Intellectual far left statements. All Us Smart, educated people know the full truth about these things and you Christians and your creationism ideas are just quaint and stupid. You must believe as we do! So that we can then Include you in our party of inclusion!
11. A President lying about an extra-marital affair is an impeachable offense, but a President lying to enlist support for a war in which thousands die and which costs the country trillions of dollars is sound policy.
Response: So, when Clinton and his top aides said, many times, that Saddam has got WMDs it was Gospel truth and shortly later Bush says it, then he's "Lying to enlist support for a war that will kill Thousands and costs trillions." C'mon, you can find Clinton tellin' it hard on Video by searching the Net. Everyone thought he had them. The Congress voted on it. GET OVER THE BUSH HATE. It's ugly bitterness that demeans the Democratic Party.
12. Government should limit itself to the powers named in the Constitution, which apparently includes banning gay marriages, torturing detainees, arresting US citizens and denying them access to legal advice, and censoring the Internet and domestic spying, but does not apparently include a right to privacy, even in your own home or body.
Response: Yep, we had the SECRET "Torturing the Detainees" meeting. Again, Can we find ANY more topics to blend together in order to get even more spin on this one. My neck hurts from twisting to read this one. And uses the word "Apparently" Yeah, right.
13. The public has a right to know about Hillary's cattle trades, but George Bush's driving record is none of our business.
Response: uh, What? Who gives a damn? Just more of that HATE Bush idealogy. SPIN.
14. Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a conservative radio host. Then it's an illness and you need our prayers for your recovery (so that you can then turn around and use your radio platform to bash the apparent Republican nominee).
Response: Boy Talk Show Hosts just scare the hell outta Democrats, don't they? wonder why?....... Maybe because they are unhappy with the SPIN that the Talk Show Hosts put on the issues! They don't like that brand of spin. It's okay for them, but not those Damn Talk Show Hosts. THEY DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO DISAGREE WITH US. EVERYONE MUST CONFORM TO THE WAY WE BELEIVE........ Yeah, the Party of Inclusion (as long as you believe exactly as we do.) If Not, The Hate and Venom will spew forth! NONE of the Conservative, Republican or Christian people I know cut ANY slack to Limbaugh for his actions. All of them abhorred it. Wonder why the Left can't let it go?....... could it be they truly love to hate? I'm beginning to believe that.
15. Support for "Executive Privilege" in perpetuity for every Republican ever born, who will be born, or who might be born.
Response: Uh, yeah...... right. I don't really have to go into this, do I? What a Joke, Jeez.
16. What Bill Clinton did in the 1960's is of vital national interest, but what Bush did in the '80's is irrelevant.
Response: Again, never heard anyone actually say this. Helps out with all that Bush Hate, Tho.' What Clinton did in the 90's dismantling our Military and intelligence gathering facilities has become very Relevant. A cleartly Spun Democratic statement.
17. Support for hunters who shoot their friends and blame them for wearing orange vests similar to those worn by the quail. (On this subject, check out this totally hilarious song! Vice-Presidential Blues by B. Isbell at http://www.isound.com/beth_isbell)
Response: Yeah, don't we love to hate and ridicule. Especially if we can direct both at the same Republican Guy! (ok, the initial incident was funny!)........ over two years later tho'....... now it's just to ridicule. Ah, the Loving Party of Inclusion.
18. Spending mega-trillions on war and mortgaging our children’s futures into perpetuity is sound fiscal policy, but funding things like basic health-care for our children and poor for less than 1/10 of 1% of the same price would simply cost too much.
Response: Now this is the perfect Far Left Spun Statement. WAR and Mortgaging our Children's Future Versus cheap health care for the "Poor and Children." Good God, a blind, deaf, and dumb moron could read the spin here.
19. Our party is the champion of fiscal responsibility, even though we can’t balance the national budget, when even Bill Clinton and Democrats could figure out how to do so.
Response: In case it slipped your mind the world changed on 911. We don't live in the heady camelot days of Clinton (Joke) Oh, the Republicans have screwed up here in my opinion, but I also recognize where some of those deep military cuts Clinton made have taken us. I guess you guys are right, better to be rich than safe! You like my spin on that?
20. Actually enforcing drug and product safety regulations to prevent all of the rampant prescription drug and dangerous toy recalls is an impediment to the greedy profiteering necessary to fund Republican political campaigns, so we should slash those agencies’ budgets even further.
Response: "An impediment to the GREEDY Profiteering NECESSARY to fund Republican campaigns." That's right absolutely Necessary. C'mon now, how much hate can you truly have in your heart? Those Fuckers should be Shot! JEEZ!
And finally, we can significantly reduce unemployment by allowing US corporations to outsource American jobs (but only if employees are Democrats) to countries employing child labor, slave labor, or forcing workers to endure dangerous and unsafe workplaces.
Response: Yeah, that's it Only Child and Slave Labor Countries! We had a meeting it's all decided! JEEZ, My neck hurts again from the twist. Who writes this stuff? Howard Dean?
In Conclusion, these statements seem full of several things to me. First, of course written to get the very utmost of political spin on them. Second, full of hate and bitterness to those who do not believe exactly as they do........ I do find it intensley ironic (and just plain wrong) that the "Party of Inclusion" sure has turned into the party of "We hate you if your different from us and we'll spew hate and venom at you every chance we get," Party.............. Now that I'm done, I could write you the same thing about many Far Right papers I've seen. On some issues I'm so far left my parents are astounded and on other issues I'm so far right that Democrats would hang me. I am SICK of both Parties and feel the Country would be better served with a third, fourth or fifth party that could actually compete in our current process. Check the Title, Humor (or is it?)....... to many people this crap is gospel. They believe it hook line and sinker......... The Democratic party has become full of hate and bitterness and I can't be associated with that................. Be Safe, T
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You do seem to have some very strong built in biases against Democrats, so not sure the independent label truly fits, but guess you would actually have to outline what you do believe to figure it out.
Democrats are inclusive. We believe in protecting your rights to be free from discrimination, your rights to privacy in your home and personal lives (assuming no harm to anyone else). Item #1 is sort of representative of this--we think such folks ought to have equal rights, and while you personally were not taught this, it is spouted non-stop by an overwhelming majority conservative radio hosts, evangelical pastors, and right-wingers. As Democrats, we say love & let love.
On the military front, you can't one up me here. My dad was a colonel in the army and all of my uncles and grandfathers were in all of the services and have fought in every war this century. You later state that you disagree with the Republicans spending so much money on the military that they can't balance the budget, but it's so much worse than that - they have spent 4-500 billion on the war, with estimates that the cost will soon exceed a trillion dollars - think about how big that number is - a number which tax revenue and other govt fees, among other revenue streams, will have to be paid by you and your children and their children, etc. At the same time, they have actually slashed military pay and veteran benefits. The soldiers injured in this war are in many cases not getting full and proper medical care. That's a fact proven by countless investigations, including by the GAO.
Take a position or not -- do you believe that we should have attacked Iraq, and why? We did not have any legal basis to do so under international law, ... no wonder most of the rest of the world, including a large number of our "allies" see us as the aggressor in this action. I strongly believe in going after the terrorists, so long as they actually are terrorists. And that does seem to be the rub.
As far as Iraq, you realize of course that the current government has stolen more money from US government contracts that Saddam, ... and that Condoleeza Rice even admitted this was a problem in testimony before Congress. If you truly want an "independent" perspective, I would suggest that you watch PBS and programs like Now & Frontline. You might also try reading the major papers from other countries. And of course, just because you don't think the vast majority of European and the rest of the world's citizens should hate Bush, the fact is that they do and the fact that they do so vigorously really does hamper our ability to gain the cooperation necessary to accomplish any of our legitimate foreign policy objections. You can't just blow everybody up, at some point you do actually need to talk, negotiate & cooperate.
I would suggest that you first figure out what you do actually believe and then compare your list to the views of all the parties & candidates.
Lots of love,
B
PS-As to creationism, it's just not valid science (period). I'm christian and believe that the Bible is mostly literal, but there are also parables. The well respected science show NOVA examined the whole issue very thoroughly and determined that there was absolutely no historical or scientific support for the creationist view. The reality is that humans did evolve from other species (as did every other species on this planet) and that they have actually found evidence of every major species evolution transformation. I square this with my Christian beliefs by knowing that the creation story is a parable, but not literal truth. You can also view each "day" in Genesis as actually being an "age" lasting many thousands of years, and there is support that the words in the original ancient hebrew text were actually meant be read in this way.
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Actually, I have read both the Republican Platform and The Democratic Platform. That is why I'm an Independant. "Built in Bias" I would disagree. My Bias of the Democrats is based on what I have observed and heard. Inclusive ONLY if you believe as they do. Otherwise the Anti Hate will spew forth. How many examples do you want? Go on the web anywhere. Love and let love? That is not what I've heard since 2000. It's been Hate Bush and Republicans first, then devise some reasons. Obsurd. Lives Vs. Money? I'll take the Lives everyday. I'm not trying to one up anyone. I just refuse to forget what our People have sacrficed for us. Of Course we've become the Agressor, we were attacked. Any other way is Death. Like most liberals you still believe PBS is neutral and independant. I don't think so. You never spoke to the clear hate and venom in those remarks, nor did you address the overwhelmingly obvious Political spin built into the way the statements were given. That too is fairly typical of Liberals. Skim over the wrong and hate filled things we've said over the last 10 years. Ignore that and just keep saying we love everyone....... I think Hitler said it best. "It doesn't matter if it's the truth JUST keep saying it over and over and the people will believe." You talk about Bias........ Read those statements over again word by word and convince me there not ridiculously full of BIAS. Typical Political spin, no different from the Talk Show Hosts who are so condemned by the Left. The SPIN is the same, just in different directions......... Oh I've thought it all out, I just disagree with you and believe the Far Left is living in a Dream World. The World we all wish really was, but at the same time they preach hate at any kind of Christian/Conservative Values. I believe in Evolution as well, Evolution within a species, NOTHING else has ever been "proven." And proven means more than "Most Scientists believe it." Given time Dogs will become smarter dogs and adapt to their enviroment, they will NOT evolve in to Cats or any other species. Course, I'm sure the "Intellectual, educated Far Left" would look down their disdainful noses at such thought. I don't intend to attempt to prove or disprove Biblical idealogy. I do believe people in America have the right to believe seperately from me and I don't attempt to tell them what they can and can not teach their children. How Presumptive and judgmental. What else will the Left tell us what to believe and how to, and what we can teach our Children. Talk about invading my Privacy. In my Home........... What they claim and what they preach are two different things. I certainly since 1990 have felt no Inclusion by the Democrats. Mostly the attempt to tell me what and how to believe on a variety of subjects and the clear message that I'm a Hate Monger if I don't agree with them............ The Independents are growing and there is a reason. What I've given you is a large part of it........... Good Debate, sometimes I love this stuff....... sometimes it all seems to tedious............... T
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You keep making this "inclusive" comment - the nature of political parties is that the folks that join support all or most of their platform, or at least think they will do a better job that their opponents of protecting the things that matter the most to the members of that party. So really this criticism is just silly nonsense. Of course, Democrats aren't "inclusive" of a lot of Republican ideas, but neither are Republicans "inclusive" of most Democratic ideas. So what.
The reality is that Democrats do believe in equal rights for all citizens. Republicans would "exclude" certain groups based on disagreements about their morals or behavior. You seem to believe in equal rights for all citizens, so I don't quite know why you haven't noticed this before.
Wow, lives v. money. It's just not that simple is it? You've avoided addressing whether you think our attacking Iraq was justified or even whether we had the legal right to do so under international law. If we sacrifice lives for a cause not justified, is that proper or fair to those families who lose sons and daughters? At some point, money does matter. Government cannot just spend a trillion or even 500 billion dollars without collecting the revenues -- from US - that's you and me Tory & our kids. I guess the Republican view is that since we can never raise taxes, we just have to slash budgets of agencies designed to protect your and my and our children's safety or slash benefits designed to help the poor get back on their feet so they can actually pay taxes, or provide children with health insurance, or protect the environment so that our children can actually enjoy the planet and have clean air and water too. Or worse yet, that they can just simply have the Fed print a lot more money, which further devalues the dollar in the world market - don't know if you've notice lately that if you travel outside the US our dollars buy less than 1/2 of what they used to buy. This also causes us to have even bigger trade deficits, which all lead to economic recession. Oops, looks like our current Republican leadership has done exactly that - put the country into a recession. Perhaps you've noticed all of the foreclosures lately and that you have to work harder just to get by. Personally, I and most Democrats believe we need a more balanced approach to governmental expenditures - one that adequately secures our national defense against actual threats while at the same time improving the lives of citizens and their children now & in the future. You can't just spend 500 trillion on defense & ignore everything else.
You should stop quoting Hitler, it is quite unbecoming intellectually.
I'm glad you think evolution is valid science. I think it's beyond dispute.
If you have noticed, I have not accused you of being a Hate-Monger. I do however think that you don't have all the true facts necessary to make a proper informed decision, and seem to be far too trusting of the current government and leadership. If other Democrats accuse you of such, I'm sorry, but quoting Hitler certainly doesn't help matters.
I hear a lot of conservatives spout that PBS is biased. What that tells me is that you don't really watch NOVA or Frontline or NOW or Bill Moyers or any of their other excellent programming. If you regularly watch for 6 months and can prove to me after that time that they actually are biased, then I'll at least give your opinion here credence.
LOL,
B
And PS--They have actually proven scientifically that creationism or intelligent design is just bad science. Here's a link to the full program which includes the scientific evidence on evolution, including inter-species evolution:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/program.html
Watch the whole thing (108 minutes) - ie ALL the chapters,
then we can discuss what you still disagree with.
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I’m stunned you took the Far Left Intellectual tact with the "Silly Nonsense" approach, What I find bothering is the Claim made that The Democrats are the Party of Inclusion. If by that, they mean inclusion "if" you share are beliefs, then they are no more or less inclusive than the Republicans. But, we both know that's not what they intend. I see Hypocrisy in that statement when I see the hate that's spilled out whenever you disagree. I don't believe either Party is a party of inclusion. The Term "Inclusion" itself leads me to believe it means exactly that. Inclusion EVEN when some or all beliefs are different. OK, I agree the Hitler quote was over the top! Beyond Spin. Of Course calling our President Hitler would be even worse. Wouldn't it? Seems like someone in Democratic Leadership did just that not long ago. Of Course, we can look the other way when someone in our Party does anything like that. I watch NOVA fairly consistently, as well as, Bill Moyers from time to time. There's a book by Bernard Goldberg called "Bias." Very Interesting concerning documented cases of the subtle but deliberate left slant of the Major Media............. T
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It's not far left or far right or even slightly left or slightly right to acknowledge that no political party generally "includes" the beliefs of opposing political parties. What is it that you want the Democrats to be inclusive of anyway? I guess under your view there should be just one party ... but I think they actually had that in Russia a while back. (joking). Seriously, if you state a policy that you feel the Democrats ought to include in their platform that is presently not included, then we can examine and discuss it intellectually. Otherwise it's just a blind criticism without any real meaning or foundation.
I'm sure none of the Democratic leadership has called Bush Hitler. I'm sure there are folks who vote for or may claim to be Democrats who aren't in the Democratic leadership that might feel this way. See, e.g., the Zeitgeist movie. I'm not one of them. Nor are the party leaders.
Maybe some newspaper and TV media (other than FOX) does have a left leaning bias, but no more than Radio is way conservatively biased (it's hard to even name a left biased radio talk show and there are undisputedly 100s more conservative oriented talk shows). Further, FOX tv and a lot of magazines and even some newspapers lean right. Neither you nor I are going to solve any of this - it's all about money and ratings. If folks watch it, and buy the advertisers products, they'll keep doing it. It's just not true to blindly claim major media slants left.
Peace,
B
Last edited by roxybeast on March 17th, 2008, 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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roxybeast
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A European Perspective on This Discussion
OK ... and after reading this entire discussion my good Scottish friend Paul had this analysis to add from the European perspective:
Interesting discussion. The original statement (How to be a republican) in my mind is largely true, although some of it is simplistic and somewhat exaggerated -for humorous purposes I suspect. The opening line is certainly false, for as you know the bible I'm sure does not say 'Thou should hate' anywhere. However right wingers are known to be anti gay while simultaneously picking up people of the same sex in toilets (humor!)........T does not answer many of the statements but avoids the issue by declaring that Clinton was busy 'butchering the military' - something of an ironic phrase considering the army's function. I would wager that even in its 'butchered' form we were still spending as much, if not more money than all of Europe and Russia combined.
I don't understand where in the statement he reads 'Everyone must believe exactly as I do on this issue'. I thought it was our noble leader(GW) who said 'your either with us or against us'...Ultimately a great deal of the mistrust and anger on the issue of 911 stems from trying to pin blame on our own government. Republicans have to put up with the idiotic ramblings of rabid conspiracy theorists who believe some of the most ridiculous twaddle and Democrats have to tolerate Fox news raving on about it being Bill Clintons fault...It was the terrorists fault! We were sucker punched and in retrospect there are literally hundreds of people you could argue were to blame including the American public, who certainly did not want to hassle with additional security at airports like the Europeans.
The left and the right tolerate a lunatic fringe that seems to have a disproportional voice in our media, probably because of ratings. The truth of the matter hopefully is that by far the majority of people are in the middle. Rhetoric used by many in the media is divisive and simply untrue...'A vote for the Democrats is a vote for terrorism' (Mitt Romney) or 'Democrats want us to lose the war'(Any number of Fox speakers) Personally I find these statements offensive for obvious reasons.
There does seem to be a huge amount of hypocrisy in the Fox news right wing attitudes and people like T who says he's an Independant seem to be unaware of it. His response to statement 9. as with several of his other replies, completely misses the point. He has either misread the statement or he is programmed to say that anything he cannot provide a retort to is spin. An example of similar logic. In Michael Moores film (which I haven't seen) there is a part in which he takes NYC firefighters to Cuba for medical help. Moore is now attacked for praising a medical system that is arguably inept. This misses the point he is trying to make which is obviously, why are they having to go there in the first place?
To me the good news is that John McCains popularity shows that Rush and Hannitys' views are not that of the majority of Republicans...cheers Paul.
Interesting discussion. The original statement (How to be a republican) in my mind is largely true, although some of it is simplistic and somewhat exaggerated -for humorous purposes I suspect. The opening line is certainly false, for as you know the bible I'm sure does not say 'Thou should hate' anywhere. However right wingers are known to be anti gay while simultaneously picking up people of the same sex in toilets (humor!)........T does not answer many of the statements but avoids the issue by declaring that Clinton was busy 'butchering the military' - something of an ironic phrase considering the army's function. I would wager that even in its 'butchered' form we were still spending as much, if not more money than all of Europe and Russia combined.
I don't understand where in the statement he reads 'Everyone must believe exactly as I do on this issue'. I thought it was our noble leader(GW) who said 'your either with us or against us'...Ultimately a great deal of the mistrust and anger on the issue of 911 stems from trying to pin blame on our own government. Republicans have to put up with the idiotic ramblings of rabid conspiracy theorists who believe some of the most ridiculous twaddle and Democrats have to tolerate Fox news raving on about it being Bill Clintons fault...It was the terrorists fault! We were sucker punched and in retrospect there are literally hundreds of people you could argue were to blame including the American public, who certainly did not want to hassle with additional security at airports like the Europeans.
The left and the right tolerate a lunatic fringe that seems to have a disproportional voice in our media, probably because of ratings. The truth of the matter hopefully is that by far the majority of people are in the middle. Rhetoric used by many in the media is divisive and simply untrue...'A vote for the Democrats is a vote for terrorism' (Mitt Romney) or 'Democrats want us to lose the war'(Any number of Fox speakers) Personally I find these statements offensive for obvious reasons.
There does seem to be a huge amount of hypocrisy in the Fox news right wing attitudes and people like T who says he's an Independant seem to be unaware of it. His response to statement 9. as with several of his other replies, completely misses the point. He has either misread the statement or he is programmed to say that anything he cannot provide a retort to is spin. An example of similar logic. In Michael Moores film (which I haven't seen) there is a part in which he takes NYC firefighters to Cuba for medical help. Moore is now attacked for praising a medical system that is arguably inept. This misses the point he is trying to make which is obviously, why are they having to go there in the first place?
To me the good news is that John McCains popularity shows that Rush and Hannitys' views are not that of the majority of Republicans...cheers Paul.
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roxybeast
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Hey Mnaz
Mnaz -- obviously that IS the point ... he/she is about sharing love.
It is aggravating that lots of evangelicals or right-wingers don't share or properly apply that view. Jesus does actually abhor greed (he/she actually says that directly in myriad passages) and actually says that greed is far more likely to keep you out of heaven than perhaps any other sin (except murder). Too bad a lot of those same folks don't actually understand or properly apply that message either.
Government shouldn't be in the business of putting one religion or one religious sect's view above another's ... it should treat everyone equally, with equal rights, privileges and respect, and leave morality and the rest for churches or private concerns to sort out if they choose.
It's sort of like those that favor prayer in schools, but only if it's Christian prayer ... if Muslims pray over the microphone at the school assembly or football game, all hell would break out.
LOL,
B
It is aggravating that lots of evangelicals or right-wingers don't share or properly apply that view. Jesus does actually abhor greed (he/she actually says that directly in myriad passages) and actually says that greed is far more likely to keep you out of heaven than perhaps any other sin (except murder). Too bad a lot of those same folks don't actually understand or properly apply that message either.
Government shouldn't be in the business of putting one religion or one religious sect's view above another's ... it should treat everyone equally, with equal rights, privileges and respect, and leave morality and the rest for churches or private concerns to sort out if they choose.
It's sort of like those that favor prayer in schools, but only if it's Christian prayer ... if Muslims pray over the microphone at the school assembly or football game, all hell would break out.
LOL,
B
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