Coming To The Defense of Helen Thomas

[roxybeast]

<center>Coming To The Defense Of Helen Thomas
Beth Isbell, June 7, 2010</center>

Helen Thomas retired after saying the Jews should get out of Palestine. Ari Fleischer claimed (falsely, I think) she is advocating racial cleansing.

Here's the video of exactly what she said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQcQdWBq ... r_embedded

Certainly her remarks are poorly worded and seemingly inappropriate. I think, however, she was trying to make the point that forced imposition of a Jewish state in Palestine has only been a good thing from the perspective of Israel and not from the perspective of the displaced Arabs or other countries left to deal with the resulting violence.

I think what happened to the Jewish people was horrible, tragic, perhaps the worst tragedy in history, but I've never been convinced that the right thing to do following the tragedy was to forcibly take Arab land to provide them a place to live against the will and over the objections of the Arabs who rightfully owned the land for centuries and centuries. If somebody forcibly took my families' land, I think I might also be upset and have a justifiable reason.

Of course it's stupid at this point some 60 years after the creation of Israel, who now does have legal rights under international law to it's territory, to suggest that they should leave or be kicked out, but I always have sort of questioned the wisdom of forcing this situation on the Arab nations in that region originally.

It certainly has caused a lot of violence, deaths, hatred & impossible situations, which is not what I think any of the original holocaust victims would have wanted if they would have known this would be the result. So was Helen wrong in making her comment? Probably. But was she racist or advocating racial cleansing? I'm not convinced.


What do you think? ... (no racist comments please)

[Arcadia]

going home can be a serious problem ... only thinking in five generations ahead I would have to go to (maybe) to Italy & somewhere in its south or east surroundings, taking other time-scale to Africa or some planet or star ... image how could it be Berlusconi´s face if all the italian-descendants in the world returned suddenly to homeland.... Now, talking seriously, it doesn´t look and sound that Helen was avocating racial cleansing... maybe she just was laughing while speaking her mind on a delicate -for a lot of people, for diferent reasons- subject.

As I said before somewhere in this site, I think the idea of the State of Israel it wasn´t a good idea, but I´m not a jew or an holocaust survivor and I live far away. And, in fact, "los países" as we all know them now, have -if not all, most of them- a heavy, cruel for some -old and/or actual stories behind.

[Arcadia]

From what I read & heard there are many things I would like to be different and worry me when I think in those lands:

- Israel as a super-military-nuclear-economic power right there..., with also powerful western and USA interests & viceversa there. Of course, it´s provocador...

(A friend is coming home, I´ll continue later! )

[Arcadia]

let´s see...

- palestinians who had to leave their lands and properties at the beggining of the making of the new "state"... it´s a sort of other side of the Holocaust persecutions, robbery and murdering... I guess not a good beggining... and I imagine and issue not easy to leave behind..

- Gaza franja and bloqueo... necessary for whom really?

- great expectations concerning the neighbors (from both sides)..., it´s difficult to dialogue when that happens

- power disbalance

- education: I wonder about it... (I saw documentaries lately about daily life in schools in Siria and China and they frightened me a bit ... the indoctrination thing... that maybe it looks more neat from distance, who knows!)

[Steve Plonk]

I think Helen Thomas was way out of line in her remarks against the country of Israel and the Jews. The idea that the Jews should
leave their country of more than sixty years is just ridiculous.

Much of the land was purchased outright from the arabs. Many of the Jews have been in the Holy Land since the 1880s. In addition,
many of the Jews kept to themselves throughout the years of the Ottoman Empire and have been in what is now Israel since the Byzantine Era and even after the burning of the temple during the tale-end of Roman times for two thousand years.

Only a small portion was conquered by Israel during the Six-Day War, etc. The two state solution is not working...I think the "Palestinians" should go back to Jordan and Egypt if they don't want to live in Israel.

[roxybeast]

It is a sticky subject ... and far too often those on the Israeli side call anyone who brings it up an anti-semite, which sometimes is justified and sometimes, like here, is not ... I do wish that we could talk about it without fear and hatred, and have a logical intelligent discussion.

Israel has been a nation for 60 years. Leaving is not an option or answer.

The only viable solution is a two-state peaceful solution, but given the history and the way this developed & progressed, progress is difficult.

[Doreen Peri]

It IS a sticky subject, for sure.

I rarely say anything about it because I get the same kind of feeling when I think of the Palestinians as when I think of the American Indians having their land stolen from them.

But when I ask about it online (since I am admittedly not at all well educated when it comes to the history), it seems people say things that indicate they think I'm being anti-Israel when I ask about the displaced Palestinians. I'm not.

At the same time, it seems like there's an entire country of people who've been displaced and I feel sorry for them.

That said, Helen Thomas' comments were definitely out of line.....

[Arcadia]

I didn´t knew that Helen Thomas was? a Casa Blanca´s journalist!. I found this article to be interesting:

http://www.counterpunch.org/cook06102010.html

and the "go home thing", thinking in l-rod post on discussion: what a meme!!: we have here as part of very common verbal insultos el imperative "go to" ... go to ... (the upper zone of a ship), go to... (the shell of your mother or sister).... go to (fry churros).... etc...

peace!

[Doreen Peri]

I admit that I'm naive and uneducated about the history of this situation. But... these are my feelings about it anyway.

1)- Israel's state is theirs. They deserve to live in peace without being attacked and their lives put in jeopardy.

2)- The Palestinians remind me of the American Indians. I really truly feel sorry for them! They are a whole tribe of people which has been displaced. They're pissed and it's understandable. But that doesn't give them the right to be violent!

3) They need to accept that their land is not their land any more and go with the UN plan to give them a state of their own and leave Israel alone.

[roxybeast]

Yep, those poor native Americans apparently were just supposed to let the white man steal their land, kill all the buffalo & rape all their women ... without putting up any fight? Sounds a lot like Gen. Custer talking.

[Doreen Peri]

No, I don't feel that at all!

It was WAY wrong for the US to steal the American Indian's land!

WAYYY wrong!

It was genocide, too!

......

I don't know about genocide in this case.... as I said, I'm not well versed in the history so I wouldn't want to accuse anyone of that because I really have no idea.

But it's the same... that's what I'm saying! That was my point with the analogy!

It was WAY wrong to take the Palestinian's land.

That's how I feel about it.

That said, it's done and Israel IS a state now. And for them to continue to attack Israel violently is wrong.

[mnaz]

Much of the land was purchased outright from the arabs.

yeah, but how much of the total?

Only a small portion was conquered by Israel during the Six-Day War, etc.

I don't think that's true.

The two state solution is not working...I think the "Palestinians" should go back to Jordan and Egypt if they don't want to live in Israel.

Sounds awfully biased to me. And what "two state solution?" Isn't that the whole point? Sheesh.

[Steve Plonk]

I stand by my Israeli "bias" and I am proud of it.
Sorry about that...
Israel then, Israel now, Israel forever!
As for Helen Thomas, she made boorish statements and
made the right decision to retire.

[mnaz]

I'm sorry to hear that.

That sort of attitude does nothing to help anything. Sorry bud.

[Steve Plonk]

We all have our attitudes and bias. We cannot escape them.
Some attitudes are more acceptable. No one is listening to
the Israeli viewpoint, at the moment, so I felt like I should be
an advocate.

Other friends, on line and elsewhere, have pointed
out the return to Jordan and Egypt "fallacy". Israeli "foreign" citizens may
be required to give loyalty oaths if they want to stay. I think that
the Arabs who want to stay may stay. Why not? But they must
give allegiance to the Israeli state. We might learn something from
the Israeli's tough love of country. There are plenty of "Palestinians" who WANT to go back to Jordan and Egypt, but are not allowed to. The borders are closed to them. So, the "two state" solution was cooked up... I thought Arabs liked other Arabs.
Maybe I was wrong...such tribalism in Arab countries. What say you?