What Would Victory Look Like in Afghanistan?

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Post by Steve Plonk » May 20th, 2010, 12:32 pm

Here's a little time out lyric for Memorial Day which is coming up:
It is posted here for educational & sentimental value:
" 'The Unknown Soldier'
By Jim Morrison & The Doors

Wait until the war is over
And we're both a little older
The unknown soldier

Breakfast where the news is read
Television children fed
Unborn living, living, dead
Bullet strikes the helmet's head

And it's all over
For the unknown soldier
It's all over
For the unknown soldier

Hut
Hut
Hut ho hee up
Hut
Hut
Hut ho hee up
Hut
Hut
Hut ho hee up
Comp'nee
Halt
Preeee-zent!
Arms!

Make a grave for the unknown soldier
Nestled in your hollow shoulder
The unknown soldier

Breakfast where the news is read
Television children fed
Bullet strikes the helmet's head

And, it's all over
The war is over
It's all over
The war is over
Well, all over, baby
All over, baby
Oh, over, yeah
All over, baby
Wooooo, hah-hah
All over
All over, baby
Oh, woa-yeah
All over
All over
Heeeeyyyy!"

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Addendum:

Post by Steve Plonk » May 29th, 2010, 9:23 pm

Addendum to Memorial Day post from official figures:
http://www.icasualties.org/oef/

"U.S. Fatalities in and around Afghanistan" headline
"Country of Death Fatalities" subtitle
"Afghanistan 957
Germany (from wounds in theatre) 14
Pakistan 15
USA (from wounds in theatre) 20
Uzbekistan 1
Total 1007 "

(As of May 28, 2010.) Let us take a moment of silence for the dead.
Last edited by Steve Plonk on June 4th, 2010, 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Addendum

Post by Steve Plonk » June 4th, 2010, 5:31 pm

Addendum to recent news:

"Afghan tribal leaders have endorsed President Hamid Karzai's plan to seek peace with the Taliban, on the final day of national peace talks in Kabul.

The "peace jirga" ended by backing an amnesty and job incentives to induce militants to give up arms.

But disagreements remained after the three-day meeting over the details of what the Taliban should be offered. " From the BBC, see below:

Sound familiar?...See this link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/south_ ... 234823.stm

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Re: Addendum:

Post by Doreen Peri » June 4th, 2010, 7:06 pm

Steve Plonk wrote:Addendum to Memorial Day post from official figures:
http://www.icasualties.org/oef/

"U.S. Fatalities in and around Afghanistan"
Country of Death Fatalities
Afghanistan 957
Germany (from wounds in theatre) 14
Pakistan 15
USA (from wounds in theatre) 20
Uzbekistan 1
Total 1007

(As of May 28, 2010.) Let us take a moment of silence for the dead.
Where are you getting this news?

Do you really think that only 20 US soldiers have died?

I don't believe that for one minute. I'm sure there are many more US soldiers who have lost their lives in Afghanistan.

That seems way too low! The war has been going on for 9 years.

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Post by Doreen Peri » June 4th, 2010, 7:09 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100528/ap_ ... n1000_dead

According to this article dated Fri May 28 (I'm assuming this is 2010... it doesn't say the year)

US toll reaches 1,000 deaths in Afghanistan war

..... I suspect the death toll is even larger than that.

I'm searching for more links.

Here's another one...
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/28/us/28list.html
The Department of Defense has identified 1,071 American service members who have died as a part of the Afghan war and related operations.
If I keep searching, the death toll will go up....

The death toll keeps going up.

It's so stupid.

For WHAT?

Lives sacrificed for nothing.

Just thrown away.

WAYYYY more than 20!

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Post by Steve Plonk » June 4th, 2010, 7:30 pm

Doreen, if you look at the bottom of the square you quoted from my column, you'll see that the total was 1007 as of May 28th, 2010.
In just a week, it appears, that a few more have died making it
1,071. So, no, the only figure showing "20" was those who died from wounds in the USA after they were evacuated. ( Look under "Uzbekistan 1" and you will see the "total" figures as of May 28, 2010.) Maybe, I should have put it in all caps and highlighted it.

We are taking lower casualties in Afghanistan than we have in Iraq, even though we have been fighting longer in the Afghan War. The number of wounded is at least twenty times that number. In Iraq, it is also much higher. But Iraq is a subject for another topic.


I am a vietnam era veteran. I remember when we were getting 150 to 300 people killed a week under even less clear objectives.
Korea was another place where we took heavier casualties and deaths during the time of conflict...

However, this week was the worst week of the Afghan War. I think we may look forward to many more weeks like this one.
Last edited by Steve Plonk on June 4th, 2010, 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Doreen Peri » June 4th, 2010, 7:40 pm

Ohhh... I misread it. I'm sorry. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

Honestly, to me? ....

One is too many.

I'm a pacifist.

There's no good reason for this. None.

Don't get me started about the Vietnam War. Thanks for your service, don't get me wrong. I'm glad you survived it.

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Post by Doreen Peri » June 4th, 2010, 7:45 pm

PS .. just a tip.. when you're quoting someone other than yourself.. if it's from another website, something someone else said, an article someone else wrote or text from that article... please could you put the Quote code around it?

As you're posting, simply highlight the text you have pasted from another site.

Then after you've selected it, click the Quote button at the top of the posting window.

This will create the opening and closing quote code. The code will look like this.

[ quote ] Text you are quoting that you didn't write yourself. [ / quote ]

(but it won't have the spaces in the code)

When submitted as a post, it will look like this:
Text you are quoting that you didn't write yourself.
Thanks very much, Steve! I'd hate to have some other website or author claim that we're publishing their material without their permission. This sets aside what others have written as a quote and makes it clear that you didn't write it.

I appreciate it very much!
If you have any difficulty doing that, let me know and I'll help.

Sorry to interrupt your column with this. Thanks for your column!!!

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Post by Steve Plonk » June 4th, 2010, 7:53 pm

I''ll make sure next time that there are quotes around the entire article instead of just a link and the headline quote... I don't know how to highlight anything except with capital letters. I will have to get a tutorial. It is an oversight and I will edit it now.

Glad you saw the figures...Thanks for the sentiment. Yes, this Afghan war is a nasty little war which has gone on almost as long as Vietnam...
Iraq is not too far behind...I am a nuclear pacifist...But, if attacked,
I think our country should respond. I also remember the infernal "Cuban Missile Crisis" in 1962. We were poised for nuclear war. I sure don't want a repeat of that situation.

The worst possible scenario is if the Taliban or Al Quaeda should get a nuclear bomb or build one in a suitcase. That scenario would be a "no win" situation and would escalate everything. I sure hope we can keep the rebels in Pakistan from getting nukes. Part of our
intelligence is to keep that scenario from happening. These are all
"what ifs" and are not meant to scare anyone.
Last edited by Steve Plonk on June 5th, 2010, 5:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Doreen Peri » June 4th, 2010, 7:57 pm

But Afghanistan did not attack us. This is not self defense.

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Post by Steve Plonk » June 4th, 2010, 8:07 pm

Once again, Al Quaeda attacked us and the Taliban were harboring Osama bin-Laden and his Al Quaeda. Therefore, we are at war with the former government of Afghanistan made up of the Taliban, who used to be called "the Mujahedeen" (sic) back in the eighties.

Once we were allies with the Mujahedeen against the former Soviet Union. We helped the Mujahedeen in the seventies and the early eighties build Tora Bora, where bin-Laden hid out before escaping.
Our mistake was not hitting the Al-Quaeda when they were still there with everything we had. We let a bunch of warlords try to take care of it and we didn't have enough troops on the ground at that time. Hopefully, our intelligence is better this time around and we will continue to kill the leaders of these groups as they surface.

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Post by stilltrucking » June 5th, 2010, 4:10 am

What Would Victory Look Like in Afghanistan?

A good question.
It would like like victory to me if there were no foreign troops there.
How to get there, I guess we will have to keep killing people until their morale improves.

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Post by Steve Plonk » June 5th, 2010, 4:22 pm

The morale of our allied forces is important. Morale is half the battle. We have to hit the enemy hard to let them know we
will stick with it and mean business. This means eventually we'll
need to keep hitting the insurgents on the other side of the Pakistani border and keep getting cooperation from that side of the
border. Otherwise, if we have to put boots on the ground over in
Pakistan, where we have incursions, we will need further cooperation from the Pakistani government. I believe the Pakistanis realize now that we require them to keep pounding the rebels who are undermining their duly constituted regime.

If we have continued cooperation, I believe we can scale down our troops by the end of next summer. Otherwise, at this rate, we will be at this troop level or higher in the forseeable future.

The Afghans need to realize that it is their former government we are fighting and not them. The Taliban are like a pain, which needs to be removed. Unless the Taliban lay down their arms, and take amnesty & be a part of the political process, we will continue to fight them. We are only fighting them because they sheltered the Al-Quaeda. We should pay the farmers for any confiscated crops & sell these crops to pay reparations to the people who were harmed.
These illegal crops may be refined to make legitimate medicine, like morphine, and other such products.

On the other hand, the Al-Quaeda must be rooted out and arrested. Those assets the Al-Quaeda control must be confiscated in order to pay reparations--this includes the Pakistani Al-Quaeda & any remnants of the worldwide group... Some are now in Yemen.

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Addendum:

Post by Steve Plonk » August 12th, 2010, 8:10 pm

Addendum #2: Pump the jam, let's hear again from somebody...

I support Obama's handling of the current wars, but I think possibly that the"timetable" to withdraw from Afghanistan may have to be adjusted. We have had high amounts of wounded, but few deaths so far.

Folks are growing impatient, but Afghanstan is a poor country and may have to be propped up for years ...See my "Festival of Life" topic...
(The 1970s were a different time and different approaches to activism were called for.) ...We elected Obama so that Iraq would wind down and so that our mission in Afghanistan would be clarified.

I think that our President has done his best so far.
We may have to march in support of President Obama. I urge
everyone to vote Democratic this November. We can't afford another right wing congress that would get us further into debt , hinder progress in the wars, and destroy the environmental and social/health legislation we worked so hard to pass this term. We are in the greatest recession since the great depression and we need to give the Obama administration continued support so his military, social and economic programs will not be cut in mid-stream.

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Re: What Would Victory Look Like in Afghanistan?

Post by Steve Plonk » May 2nd, 2011, 12:05 pm

On May 1, 2011, President Barack Obama announced the killing of Osama Bin-Laden by U.S. Navy Seals. That is what I was talking about, when I was talking about what victory would resemble in Afghanistan! Obama made it clear that
one of our main objectives was met and that we were never at war with Islam itself. One of the worst terrorists in world history met his justifiable end. (Watch the video where I posted it, here, on "Youtube Videos" forum.)

I revel in the fact that Pakistani cooperation, which I knew was forthcoming, allowed our great victory...Not just for the USA but for the "World
War on Terror". Now we need to stay vigilant and wrap this thing up. We cut the main head off of the "snake" but it is like a "hydra" and other heads will take
it's place. So, we keep fighting until the Taliban lays down their arms and/or until we neutralize Al-Quaida. Hopefully, by the end of the summer, we will be able to draw down some troops in Afghanistan...

"Cool Hand" Obama got Osama! Oh hell, yeah! Moreover, we need Afghanistan's
opium and oil pipeline, not to mention their precious gems and strategic position
in Central Asia. See the rest of my thread...

Victory would mean a happier partnership with Russia and better relations with
Pakistan, and a grand oil pipeline through Turkmenistan, etc., Afghanistan and Pakistan. We could circumvent Iranian interests and Russia would be a good buddy, to make a long story short. "Unocal" would be happy, our state department would be happy, the Afghan opium farmers would be happy that we are converting opium at good market prices, and the Pakistani's would be happy
to buy the gas & oil that comes across from Turkmenistan & Russia--along with the rest of the world. Iran would be peeved. But Iranians are always peeved 'cause they have their heads up their collective asses, if the world
shuns them. Maybe Saudi Arabia would also be peeved because we found a new market for gas & oil...Boo yah! Obama got Osama!

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