The Dawn

[e_dog]

at the end of a brief Yeats poem, the poet writes: "i would be -- for all knowledge is worth a straw -- ignorant and wanton as the dawn".

it is only the wise who see the futility of wisdom. (or, is wisdom a diffrent thing from knowledge?)

the long journey without and within, ending where it began. unfulfilled because the expectations increased. dissatisfied because the preferences grew. it is a cultured discontent that implodes the intellectual soul.

if only every sunset were also a sunrise . . . .

[Marksman45]

I would say that wisdom and knowledge are two different things. In fact, I consider them as different as left and right.

Knowledge only works within the confines of reason; only wisdom can grasp important paradoxes of cosmic proportions.
Knowledge is our grasp of the tangible, the describable, the catalogued. Wisdom is our grasp on the intangible, the indescribable, the uncataloguable.

Wisdom cannot be communicated verbally, for language is in the domain of reason. Anytime someone attempts to communicate wisdom verbally, it seems to make little or no sense.

With knowledge, you must think more than act
With wisdom, you must act more than think

Knowledge is consistent, but limited.
Wisdom is unlimited, but unknowable, ungraspable, making it impossible for someone to rely strictly on wisdom

I believe that both are important, even despite the fact that it wouldn't count for beans when we're dead. While we're alive, I believe we owe it at least to our own lifeforce (let alone any creator deities/forces anyone happens to believe in) to give an impeccable performance

I'm not sure if what I just said is even related here, but it's what came to mind

[e_dog]

you are definitely unto something with these remarks about the limitations of rational knowledge. however, i suspect that the image of 'wisdom' that your contrasts evokes is a that of a mythical, or even mystical, nonentity, like enlightenment.

wisdom is not pure acting; but neither does thinking exhaust itself in knowing. surely you are right that practical wisdom manifests itself in action, but thought is involved too (thought, not theory).

i wonder whether incomunicable wisdom is really wisdom, and not some pretense of rapture. certainly there are many a wise remark or poem or line or even painting that communicates something that cannot be said to be known to the rational mind or at least to the mentality of logical deductions; i would almost like totsay that real wisdom, if it is true, has to be communicable, maybe only to the few rather the many, but some others at least, in order to be, not just to recognized as, wisdom. the wisdom of the elders passed on to their successors; the wisdom of drunken sages in bamboo groves. there is something social about wisdom, as there is about regular knowledge.

[Marksman45]

I don't mean that Knowledge monopolizes thought or Wisdom action; just that in Wisdom is best expressed & utilized through action, and Knowledge through thought

I have theorized a diagram to describe the facets of a human psyche.
First take a square. The upper half of the square represents Thought, the lower half Action. The left half represents Wisdom, the right half Knowledge.
Now draw both diagonals of the square, creating 4 triangular sections. Starting at the top and going clockwise, I refer to these as Mind, Brain, Bone, and Heart. Mind, the part of us that handles philosophy, is equal parts Knowledge and Wisdom, then all Thought with no Action. Brain handles science, and is equal parts Thought & Action, then all Knowledge with no Wisdom. Bone represents our animal nature & survival instinct, equal parts Knowledge & Wisdom, then all Action with no Thought. Heart, the source of creativity and emotion, is equal parts Thought & Action, then all Wisdom with no Knowledge.
This specific diagram represents, I think, an ideal allocation into each of the four sections; most people, I believe, including me, have sections that are larger than others and that encroach into what would ideally be another part's domain

I say that Wisdom is incommunicable because someone can't tell you Wisdom; you have to experience it. This is a point that Hesse's "Siddhartha" makes, one that I agree with
Wisdom can't be presented in a logical form; it can be expressed in art, even poetry, but it can't be presented literally, for it defies reason


Anything that I say on this subject is going to end up sounding "mystical." This is because I believe in magic, although I mean something different when I say "magic" than most people do.

[e_dog]

your diagram sounds interesting. maybe you could draw one and post it somehow?

[Marksman45]

Something akin to this:


with the X axis running (left to right) from Wisdom to Knowledge, and the Y axis running (top to bottom) from Thought to Action

(I didn't draw in the axis lines so as to not confuse the lines demarcating the 4 regions)

I would also make the somewhat metaphysical postulation that the left side of the chart corresponds to the left side of the human body, and the right to the right.

Of course, this whole diagram is just postulation. I haven't made any conclusions

[e_dog]

excellent.

in your next redition, if such there be, you could just add the Wisdom-Knowledge (X) and Thought-Action (Y) axis labels along the top and side lines of the square, no?

[Marksman45]

You know, I attempted to do that, but this image editing software on this computer is so awkward and cumbersome, I could hardly figure out how to do anything

At some point I'm going to make a fairly elaborate one by hand

At some other point in the future, I might attempt to devise a test to determine a person's activity in each region